Glad you like them!
Bummer......... Anyway, with SS you'll need anywhere from ~32 - 1 kW of music power (dynamic headroom) depending on the type of music, amount of compression used, and average SPL you're likely to listen to since you won't have a tube's euphonic clipping to protect the driver from either an SS amp's clipping ckt. if not a 'soft' one, or worse, the hard clip of an unprotected one.
GM
Bummer......... Anyway, with SS you'll need anywhere from ~32 - 1 kW of music power (dynamic headroom) depending on the type of music, amount of compression used, and average SPL you're likely to listen to since you won't have a tube's euphonic clipping to protect the driver from either an SS amp's clipping ckt. if not a 'soft' one, or worse, the hard clip of an unprotected one.
GM
Hi,
first of all I wish to thank you all of you and in particular GM, the designer of these speakers. I just made the first listening tests to the MLTL 48 I built myself.
I just started the tuning of the speakers. Despite of the drivers did work until now only few hours and the enclosures have not been definitevely glued and closed, the sound looks very promising. I'll attach a few pictures to show you the work I did.
All comments and suggestions of yours are very welcome; I am a beginner in DiY audio and I did so many stupid errors (I am ashame to tell you) that I am sure I also did serious errors.
I followed the project shown on the Jordan web site; I used 18mm thick birch plywood (the thicker I found) and included the suggested BSC filter (2mH inductance, 4ohm resistor) which can be switched on/of in the rear of the cabinet.
I was not able to find in my country (Italy) the stuffing material suggested by Colin (BAF) so now I am using some sheets of a material produced by Monacor (75% wool, 25% polyester fibre).
To increase the stiffness I painted the inside of the cabinet with a painting based on bitumen used by the car industries to reduce the internal noise of the cars.
To further increase stiffness, before the final gluing of the side panel I intend to put a piece of wood between the driver and the back panel.
During the first two-three hours of music the sound was not very detailed and there was no bass at all. After 5-6 hours the bass appeared and details are focusing minute aftewr minute: I need some days of music before starting the definiteve tuning that, unlikely, I can do only by "ears".
Thank you again
Renato
first of all I wish to thank you all of you and in particular GM, the designer of these speakers. I just made the first listening tests to the MLTL 48 I built myself.
I just started the tuning of the speakers. Despite of the drivers did work until now only few hours and the enclosures have not been definitevely glued and closed, the sound looks very promising. I'll attach a few pictures to show you the work I did.
All comments and suggestions of yours are very welcome; I am a beginner in DiY audio and I did so many stupid errors (I am ashame to tell you) that I am sure I also did serious errors.
I followed the project shown on the Jordan web site; I used 18mm thick birch plywood (the thicker I found) and included the suggested BSC filter (2mH inductance, 4ohm resistor) which can be switched on/of in the rear of the cabinet.
I was not able to find in my country (Italy) the stuffing material suggested by Colin (BAF) so now I am using some sheets of a material produced by Monacor (75% wool, 25% polyester fibre).
To increase the stiffness I painted the inside of the cabinet with a painting based on bitumen used by the car industries to reduce the internal noise of the cars.
To further increase stiffness, before the final gluing of the side panel I intend to put a piece of wood between the driver and the back panel.
During the first two-three hours of music the sound was not very detailed and there was no bass at all. After 5-6 hours the bass appeared and details are focusing minute aftewr minute: I need some days of music before starting the definiteve tuning that, unlikely, I can do only by "ears".
Thank you again
Renato
Attachments
Greets!
You're welcome!
Hmm, the auto body bitumen damping coatings I'm familiar with don't increase the stiffness of plywood to any degree, but increases its damping and I can't see your picture well enough to see enough details, but from your comments I would reduce the initial stuffing to just a piece covering the top and the areas directly to one side and rear of the driver and only increase it from the top down to just below the driver as required to smooth it out in-room.
Note too that unless you get an airtight seal on the temporarily removable panel most of its pipe action that loads the vent will be dissipated, ruining any effort to fine tune them.
GM
You're welcome!
Hmm, the auto body bitumen damping coatings I'm familiar with don't increase the stiffness of plywood to any degree, but increases its damping and I can't see your picture well enough to see enough details, but from your comments I would reduce the initial stuffing to just a piece covering the top and the areas directly to one side and rear of the driver and only increase it from the top down to just below the driver as required to smooth it out in-room.
Note too that unless you get an airtight seal on the temporarily removable panel most of its pipe action that loads the vent will be dissipated, ruining any effort to fine tune them.
GM
Thank you for your comments GM.
I hope that, at least, the use of bitumen will be useless and not negative.
As soon as I insert the small brace between the driver and the back panel I'll go to glue the side panel. I know it should be done.
For training, before this project, I built a pair of small bass reflex speakers (Fostex FE103E in standard Fostex BR cabinet design): to built small speakers is much simpler, expecially when the job is done in the living room.
Renato
I hope that, at least, the use of bitumen will be useless and not negative.
As soon as I insert the small brace between the driver and the back panel I'll go to glue the side panel. I know it should be done.
For training, before this project, I built a pair of small bass reflex speakers (Fostex FE103E in standard Fostex BR cabinet design): to built small speakers is much simpler, expecially when the job is done in the living room.
Renato
You're welcome!
I didn't mean to imply that the coating is a negative thing, just that if it works as it should, then you will probably need less lining or stuffing which means more bass.
I understand, I had a 10" radial arm saw system, large drill press, work table, etc. in the living room while I was building my workshop, so everything was pushed in a corner and covered in plastic and I had plastic curtains covering the doorways to the other rooms as well. Talk about taxing the S.O.'s patience, but she kept quiet and even helped me clean up the mess after I got it all moved to the shop.
What sent her over the edge though was that Winter it was bitter cold and Harleys were basically FORDs (Fix Or Repair Daily) back then, so I did all the preparation for Daytona BikeWeek in the living room, but she took serious exception to me using the sinks and bathtub to clean parts with various noxious chemicals.
Oh well, a man's got to do what a man's got to do....... Anyway, it didn't take many miles 'in the wind' perched on the pea pad for everything to be forgiven.
GM
I didn't mean to imply that the coating is a negative thing, just that if it works as it should, then you will probably need less lining or stuffing which means more bass.
I understand, I had a 10" radial arm saw system, large drill press, work table, etc. in the living room while I was building my workshop, so everything was pushed in a corner and covered in plastic and I had plastic curtains covering the doorways to the other rooms as well. Talk about taxing the S.O.'s patience, but she kept quiet and even helped me clean up the mess after I got it all moved to the shop.
What sent her over the edge though was that Winter it was bitter cold and Harleys were basically FORDs (Fix Or Repair Daily) back then, so I did all the preparation for Daytona BikeWeek in the living room, but she took serious exception to me using the sinks and bathtub to clean parts with various noxious chemicals.
Oh well, a man's got to do what a man's got to do....... Anyway, it didn't take many miles 'in the wind' perched on the pea pad for everything to be forgiven.
GM
Magic stuffing
Hi to everybody,
I wish to share my experience on the MLTL 48 I almost finished to build following the instruction on the Jordan web site and the very helpful suggestions found in this forum.
I built the speakers with the rectangular section (easier to build). I added on the back a BSC filter 3.9Ohm resistor + 2mH inductor switchable by a DPDT switch.
I used as stuffing a product of Monacor (sheets of 75%wool and 25% polyester,
300grams/square meter).
I am currently using for playback a Meridian 508.20 CD player and a 50watt YBA integré integrated amplifier (dual mono with dual transformer).
I can compare my MLTL 48 with the commercial speakers Opera III (2.5 way BR floorstander with SEAS drivers, now discontinued) and small full range speakers (Fostex FE103E in the BR cabinet suggested by Fostex). The last ones are my first DIY project, so do not thrust me too much, I am a real beginner.
All panels have been glued, I only have to paint them and to complete the tuning with the correct stuffing.
At the beginning I was a little bit disappointed of the results: the bass was there, even if not dramatically different than the bass of the Opera speakers (rated -3dB at 50hz) but they seemed not sufficiently detailed, in particular when compared with the FE103E that I found very enjoyable in this field.
I built these speakers because I had the opportunity to listen to the Konus Essence speakers and some speakers of a small Italian company (Audio Performance) both
full range TL with the Jordan driver and I was very impressed, in particular by the detail and transparency that I missed in mine.
Then I started to add more stuffing (at the begining I put only a sheet on the back and the two side panels).
I did not expect the relevance of the stuffing! Now they sound OK, the differences with the Opera in the midrange are subtle, but the Jordan are surely more convincing; the bass is very different and I again prefer the Jordan dryer sound.
However I find the sound of the Fostex still more transparent in the cymbals or in the vibrophone for instance.
I realized that to built correctly these Jordan speakers needs much more care (the Fostex just worked fine after gluing the panels) and I am sure that there is space for large improvements especially because of my poor skill and experience.
Have you some suggestion?
I have also a stupid question concerning the polarity of the driver pins. Near the pins, on the side of the driver there is a white adhesive label with a small red + sign and I thought that it was indicating the the + pin, but yesterday evening I also saw a red painted dot near the pins which specifies the other one: what is the correct + pin?
Thank you all for this beautiful forum
Renato
Hi to everybody,
I wish to share my experience on the MLTL 48 I almost finished to build following the instruction on the Jordan web site and the very helpful suggestions found in this forum.
I built the speakers with the rectangular section (easier to build). I added on the back a BSC filter 3.9Ohm resistor + 2mH inductor switchable by a DPDT switch.
I used as stuffing a product of Monacor (sheets of 75%wool and 25% polyester,
300grams/square meter).
I am currently using for playback a Meridian 508.20 CD player and a 50watt YBA integré integrated amplifier (dual mono with dual transformer).
I can compare my MLTL 48 with the commercial speakers Opera III (2.5 way BR floorstander with SEAS drivers, now discontinued) and small full range speakers (Fostex FE103E in the BR cabinet suggested by Fostex). The last ones are my first DIY project, so do not thrust me too much, I am a real beginner.
All panels have been glued, I only have to paint them and to complete the tuning with the correct stuffing.
At the beginning I was a little bit disappointed of the results: the bass was there, even if not dramatically different than the bass of the Opera speakers (rated -3dB at 50hz) but they seemed not sufficiently detailed, in particular when compared with the FE103E that I found very enjoyable in this field.
I built these speakers because I had the opportunity to listen to the Konus Essence speakers and some speakers of a small Italian company (Audio Performance) both
full range TL with the Jordan driver and I was very impressed, in particular by the detail and transparency that I missed in mine.
Then I started to add more stuffing (at the begining I put only a sheet on the back and the two side panels).
I did not expect the relevance of the stuffing! Now they sound OK, the differences with the Opera in the midrange are subtle, but the Jordan are surely more convincing; the bass is very different and I again prefer the Jordan dryer sound.
However I find the sound of the Fostex still more transparent in the cymbals or in the vibrophone for instance.
I realized that to built correctly these Jordan speakers needs much more care (the Fostex just worked fine after gluing the panels) and I am sure that there is space for large improvements especially because of my poor skill and experience.
Have you some suggestion?
I have also a stupid question concerning the polarity of the driver pins. Near the pins, on the side of the driver there is a white adhesive label with a small red + sign and I thought that it was indicating the the + pin, but yesterday evening I also saw a red painted dot near the pins which specifies the other one: what is the correct + pin?
Thank you all for this beautiful forum
Renato
Hi,
they are some weeks now that my MLTL 48s are playing music (see previous post for details). However, due to my inexperience, I am convinced I did not properly built them, because when I switch to the BR Fostex FE103E I also have, a veil is removed and much more details appear with a more natural sound. But when I heard the Jordan VTL at an audio show last year I was just impressed by the detail and "true" sound.
I played a lot with stuffing and lining and I hear changes in the bass, but not in the midrange and treble.
Have you any suggestion?
Thank you
Renato
they are some weeks now that my MLTL 48s are playing music (see previous post for details). However, due to my inexperience, I am convinced I did not properly built them, because when I switch to the BR Fostex FE103E I also have, a veil is removed and much more details appear with a more natural sound. But when I heard the Jordan VTL at an audio show last year I was just impressed by the detail and "true" sound.
I played a lot with stuffing and lining and I hear changes in the bass, but not in the midrange and treble.
Have you any suggestion?
Thank you
Renato
northernsky said:
I had a similar "problem" specially when not sitting precisely at the Jordan's right spot, which is very narrow IMHO.
Then I added the ribbon twetter as per J Griffin design and VOILA! Just magic! Now I listen to music for hours without thinking about the speakers and can be anywhere in the room. It's a bit expensive option though.
Good luck
I notice you have a 2mH inductor, which is what the Jordan site gives for the VTL, which has a different baffle dimension, so you may be rolling off the JX92.
Jim Griffin uses 1.5mH in his xover design for the MLTL and the inductor there also forms part of the 2nd order xover on the Jordan.
Try putting the speaker against a wall with no BSC and see if it sounds better. If it does. then if you move it away from the wall again, try lower values of inductor perhaps starting about 1.0mH.
I also found the Jordans were very sensitive to the quality of BSC and xover components.
What type of 4 Ohm resistor are you using?
Jim Griffin uses 1.5mH in his xover design for the MLTL and the inductor there also forms part of the 2nd order xover on the Jordan.
Try putting the speaker against a wall with no BSC and see if it sounds better. If it does. then if you move it away from the wall again, try lower values of inductor perhaps starting about 1.0mH.
I also found the Jordans were very sensitive to the quality of BSC and xover components.
What type of 4 Ohm resistor are you using?
Thank you for your replies.
I can switch on/off the BSC; with the BSC on bass and trebles are more balanced but I do not hear changes in the clarity of the sound.
However, until now they played less than 100 hours; a not sufficient run in can be a concern.
Let's wait some more time before making definitive conclusions.
Thank you again
Renato
I can switch on/off the BSC; with the BSC on bass and trebles are more balanced but I do not hear changes in the clarity of the sound.
However, until now they played less than 100 hours; a not sufficient run in can be a concern.
Let's wait some more time before making definitive conclusions.
Thank you again
Renato
Hi.
After some weeks of music I finally realized what what was going wrong with my MLTL-48. The BSC filter was not working at all since the inductor was not properly connected to the speaker.
In my room the BSC is mandatory; now the bass is full bodied and I am very satisfied with the sound of the speakers.
Renato
After some weeks of music I finally realized what what was going wrong with my MLTL-48. The BSC filter was not working at all since the inductor was not properly connected to the speaker.
In my room the BSC is mandatory; now the bass is full bodied and I am very satisfied with the sound of the speakers.
Renato
Hi GM,
I agree with you that the BSC can not add new information to the music.
However, for instance in orchestral music, with the BSC on I can clearly hear the doublebass line that I just guessed previously or I can hear more harmonics of the piano or of the acoustic guitar in small ensemble works.
I would better say that, in addition to more weight of the bass line, now I can pick all the information that were already there.
When I compare the Jordan MLTL to the small Fostex fe103e BR speakers I also have, still the Fostexs looks to me a little bit more detailed. However I read comments somewhere in ths forum, that Fostex may give the "feeling" of more detail, due to some nonlinearities in the treble.
Finally, please I apologize for my English; it is so difficult to me to put in words my
impressions about the sound by using my mother tongue... you cannot imagine how much time this post required to be submitted
Renato
I agree with you that the BSC can not add new information to the music.
However, for instance in orchestral music, with the BSC on I can clearly hear the doublebass line that I just guessed previously or I can hear more harmonics of the piano or of the acoustic guitar in small ensemble works.
I would better say that, in addition to more weight of the bass line, now I can pick all the information that were already there.
When I compare the Jordan MLTL to the small Fostex fe103e BR speakers I also have, still the Fostexs looks to me a little bit more detailed. However I read comments somewhere in ths forum, that Fostex may give the "feeling" of more detail, due to some nonlinearities in the treble.
Finally, please I apologize for my English; it is so difficult to me to put in words my
impressions about the sound by using my mother tongue... you cannot imagine how much time this post required to be submitted
Renato
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