I would look on the planet 10 fostex box plan library. There is a "slim tower fonken" that is similar in dimensions but smaller. The "full range reference" designs are MLTL's but most of them are folded designs. As you will notices, they are significantly smaller that the Jordan design.
woodturner-fran said:
You would be dissappointed with the FE126 in the Jordan cabinet. The 126 really wants to be in a horn.
The FE127e is suited to an ML-tl, but you would do much better building a box designed for it specifically. There are both the GM ML_TL and the diyRef ML-TL. If you want a tall box the practicalities of driver position probably make GM's easier to live with.
dave
Planet 10: could you point towards plans for the GM- MLTL? (and I suppose the diyref one as well if you have a link handy).
Tall slender box would be good
Advice taken on the FE126. IIRC the FE127e is about the same price so thats AOK. Should I use some kind of BSC for that driver and if so, what one?
Many many thanks for the advice - I'm all at sea here.
Fran
Tall slender box would be good
Advice taken on the FE126. IIRC the FE127e is about the same price so thats AOK. Should I use some kind of BSC for that driver and if so, what one?
Many many thanks for the advice - I'm all at sea here.
Fran
planet10 said:
Here is the thread i was thinking off... doesn't seem to have the dimensions in it thou
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118857
dave
.
I have not got the cutout dimensions for the Fostex, but the Jordan needs 113mm. If you have a 36mm thick baffle, by the time you have chamfered out the hole for the driver at a 45 degree angle, the cutout will flare from 113mm to 185mm, but your box is only 177mm wide. I think you risk strangling the driver or weakening the baffle (or possibly both).
woodturner-fran said:
I have not got the cutout dimensions for the Fostex, but the Jordan needs 113mm. If you have a 36mm thick baffle, by the time you have chamfered out the hole for the driver at a 45 degree angle, the cutout will flare from 113mm to 185mm, but your box is only 177mm wide. I think you risk strangling the driver or weakening the baffle (or possibly both).
I know that there is a notion that thin-walled, slightly lossy (the back panel is screwed on rather than glued & screwed) cabinets are preferred for the LS3/5A speakers as sounding the best. This was the way the first two reference LS3/5A models were made and in a shootout they came out as best sounding! Stirling Broadcast even sell new thin-walled cabinets as reference design!
What do people think is the technical reason for this? Is there any validity to generalising the idea, to these MLTL cabinets for instance?
What do people think is the technical reason for this? Is there any validity to generalising the idea, to these MLTL cabinets for instance?
Finished my new GM 31" MLTL
At last I finished building the enclosures of my MLTL 31 and had a chance to listen to the speakers:
Please see the photos here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11571687@N02/sets/72157603119448350/
I am very impressed by the sound but I feel should make try some adjustments and I have some questions.
I improvised the the stuffing with ecowool: http://www.eco-wool.co.uk/ and put bit if lining behind the driver using wood flooring underlay for sound insulation (around 3.7mm thick matt, sort of compressed and heavy). The stuffing is provisional as I intend to replace it with BAF.
First, the instructions in Ted Jordan's web page mention stuffing but not lining, so I do not know if I should remove the lining, or maybe put more and remove some stuffing?
Second, the stuffing is quite compressed and fills all the upper part of the speakers down to two inches below the driver. In this respect my doubts are: If I over stuffed the cabinets (which I believe I did) what sound change should I expect if I remove some stuffing and how would I know I have removed too much?? Basically I do not know if the stuffing affects mainly the bass or also the mid and high frequencies.
Thanks
At last I finished building the enclosures of my MLTL 31 and had a chance to listen to the speakers:
Please see the photos here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11571687@N02/sets/72157603119448350/
I am very impressed by the sound but I feel should make try some adjustments and I have some questions.
I improvised the the stuffing with ecowool: http://www.eco-wool.co.uk/ and put bit if lining behind the driver using wood flooring underlay for sound insulation (around 3.7mm thick matt, sort of compressed and heavy). The stuffing is provisional as I intend to replace it with BAF.
First, the instructions in Ted Jordan's web page mention stuffing but not lining, so I do not know if I should remove the lining, or maybe put more and remove some stuffing?
Second, the stuffing is quite compressed and fills all the upper part of the speakers down to two inches below the driver. In this respect my doubts are: If I over stuffed the cabinets (which I believe I did) what sound change should I expect if I remove some stuffing and how would I know I have removed too much?? Basically I do not know if the stuffing affects mainly the bass or also the mid and high frequencies.
Thanks
Nice!
I assume his instructions is for his TL, which does require considerable stuffing to smooth its inherent 'ripple'. A well done MLTL OTOH typically only needs a minimal amount and I personally prefer lining the top, one side and back down to just below the driver initially with 1" acoustic fiberglass and only add more further down if required.
Stuffing affects the cab's entire BW and if there's way too much it can literally 'suck the life' out of a wide BW driver by acoustically over damping it.
Anyway, yeah, it sure looks way overstuffed, so yank it out until it starts sounding hollow, then only add back just enough to make it go away and tell us what you think.
Also, you left off the vent deflector and rear mass loading chamber, so you're missing a small amount of bottom end reinforcement to boot.
GM
I assume his instructions is for his TL, which does require considerable stuffing to smooth its inherent 'ripple'. A well done MLTL OTOH typically only needs a minimal amount and I personally prefer lining the top, one side and back down to just below the driver initially with 1" acoustic fiberglass and only add more further down if required.
Stuffing affects the cab's entire BW and if there's way too much it can literally 'suck the life' out of a wide BW driver by acoustically over damping it.
Anyway, yeah, it sure looks way overstuffed, so yank it out until it starts sounding hollow, then only add back just enough to make it go away and tell us what you think.
Also, you left off the vent deflector and rear mass loading chamber, so you're missing a small amount of bottom end reinforcement to boot.
GM
Thanks GM, I will follow your advise and report back.
I left the hole at the bottom because I want to experiment with the deflector facing to the back and with some other esoteric options to deflect the sound and mass load the chamber: like placing a heavy cannon ball or a pyramid, or a stone etc in the cavity. If nothing of this works I will build the deflector with the mass loaded chamber as recommended in your original design.
Additionally, the speakers will be blue tacked to a a heavy square stone which is not shown yet in the photographs.
In the meantime I have to say the the bass is already impressively clean fast and tight and that there are no noticeable resonance in the cabinet structure (planet 10's vertical bracing to mass load the driver works very well). The whole speaker becomes one thing really.
Regards
Antonio
I left the hole at the bottom because I want to experiment with the deflector facing to the back and with some other esoteric options to deflect the sound and mass load the chamber: like placing a heavy cannon ball or a pyramid, or a stone etc in the cavity. If nothing of this works I will build the deflector with the mass loaded chamber as recommended in your original design.
Additionally, the speakers will be blue tacked to a a heavy square stone which is not shown yet in the photographs.
In the meantime I have to say the the bass is already impressively clean fast and tight and that there are no noticeable resonance in the cabinet structure (planet 10's vertical bracing to mass load the driver works very well). The whole speaker becomes one thing really.
Regards
Antonio
Which port tube to use
I'm just about done building Jim Griffin's variation of the MLTL. His design suggests using a 2.125" diameter, 3" long port. I cannot find a port with that diameter.
Option 1: Use a 2" diameter port. What length?
Option 2: Use a 2.5" diameter port. What length?
Option 3: Take a glue some on the inside of the rear panel so it reaches 3" thick. Then drill a 2.125" hole through the back.
What do you think?
I'm just about done building Jim Griffin's variation of the MLTL. His design suggests using a 2.125" diameter, 3" long port. I cannot find a port with that diameter.
Option 1: Use a 2" diameter port. What length?
Option 2: Use a 2.5" diameter port. What length?
Option 3: Take a glue some on the inside of the rear panel so it reaches 3" thick. Then drill a 2.125" hole through the back.
What do you think?
Hi,
I want to buy two 4 ohms 12 W Mills resistors for a BSC circuit for my GM mltl 31 but I am not sure which of these is the good one as non of them says it is clearly the 4 Ohms one.
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/default.php?cPath=61_62_179&sort=1a&page=2
Also, can someone recommend good quality no so expensive inductors available in the UK?. I was thinking about these ferrite ones but they are a bit expensive:
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/default.php?cPath=61_174_242_175
This is totally new for me and could not figure this out even after surfing the net for a while and also visiting Mills page.
Many thanks for your help
Regards
Antonio
I want to buy two 4 ohms 12 W Mills resistors for a BSC circuit for my GM mltl 31 but I am not sure which of these is the good one as non of them says it is clearly the 4 Ohms one.
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/default.php?cPath=61_62_179&sort=1a&page=2
Also, can someone recommend good quality no so expensive inductors available in the UK?. I was thinking about these ferrite ones but they are a bit expensive:
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/default.php?cPath=61_174_242_175
This is totally new for me and could not figure this out even after surfing the net for a while and also visiting Mills page.
Many thanks for your help
Regards
Antonio
They only have 3.9 ohms and 4.7 ohms in the 12 W size (MRA-12) and I wouldn't think a 1/10 of an ohm would be audible.
Can't help with inductors, back when I was buying them I bought rolls of machine wound magnet winding wire and de-wound them to whatever value since I usually needed big ones and it was cheaper and I could get the exact value within my meter's tolerance. Small ones I'd wind myself from the cut-offs.
GM
Can't help with inductors, back when I was buying them I bought rolls of machine wound magnet winding wire and de-wound them to whatever value since I usually needed big ones and it was cheaper and I could get the exact value within my meter's tolerance. Small ones I'd wind myself from the cut-offs.
GM
Ok, my GM MLTL 31 are virtually done and I am very happy with them. I built a BSC circuit and it works great depending on the music and where I place the speakers. So I decided to use them with a switch and now I am very pleased with the sound and the flexibility of the set up. I do not need or want more bass than what I've got with this version and I really like their detail, tightness and ability to play great at low and quite high volumes .
So, I take the opportunity to thank GM, J Griffin, Nardis, Collin, Apnea and every one else for their ideas and advise, which I really appreciate.
If any of the UK members wants to hear the speakers they are welcome. Just let me know (I live in East London).
The only bad news is that after successfully installing a DPDT switch for the BSC circuits, two unprotected speaker cable connections touched and my amp's (Conrad Johnson 1980' Sonographe) left channel stopped working. and it is not only the fuse, something else got burnt .
So, taking into account the price of having anything fixed in the UK at the moment, I thought I might get a better and cheaper result building a gainclone. If any of you have a suggestion on this respect it will be very appreciated.
Best regards
Antonio
So, I take the opportunity to thank GM, J Griffin, Nardis, Collin, Apnea and every one else for their ideas and advise, which I really appreciate.
If any of the UK members wants to hear the speakers they are welcome. Just let me know (I live in East London).
The only bad news is that after successfully installing a DPDT switch for the BSC circuits, two unprotected speaker cable connections touched and my amp's (Conrad Johnson 1980' Sonographe) left channel stopped working. and it is not only the fuse, something else got burnt .
So, taking into account the price of having anything fixed in the UK at the moment, I thought I might get a better and cheaper result building a gainclone. If any of you have a suggestion on this respect it will be very appreciated.
Best regards
Antonio
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