I reread parts of this thread this afternoon (the thread comparing the Jordan and Mark Audio drivers started over two years ago now!). This thread and the companion thread on Eikona 2 designs at:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/265994-jordan-eikona-2-designs.html#post4222009
certainly represent a treasure of possibilities to achieve excellent results from the Eikona 2.
My comment is that those of you (scottjoplin, sax512, PJN, others) who are considering new/different cabinet designs are brave souls.
But sometimes some of you can over think the problem and worry about a meter long strand of cable and its impact inside the box! Just use a good quality AWG #14 stranded copper wire and get on with building those speakers.
Given my experience over 10 years with my daily listener JX92S MLTL designs, I would approach a Eikona 2 design just as I referenced in the Eikona 2 design thread (see posting #8 and beyond). My approach was to use simple, straight forward, and easy to build (non-tapered enclosures). You will be successful and pleased with the results as the Eikona 2 is an exceptional driver.
Jim
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/265994-jordan-eikona-2-designs.html#post4222009
certainly represent a treasure of possibilities to achieve excellent results from the Eikona 2.
My comment is that those of you (scottjoplin, sax512, PJN, others) who are considering new/different cabinet designs are brave souls.
But sometimes some of you can over think the problem and worry about a meter long strand of cable and its impact inside the box! Just use a good quality AWG #14 stranded copper wire and get on with building those speakers.
Given my experience over 10 years with my daily listener JX92S MLTL designs, I would approach a Eikona 2 design just as I referenced in the Eikona 2 design thread (see posting #8 and beyond). My approach was to use simple, straight forward, and easy to build (non-tapered enclosures). You will be successful and pleased with the results as the Eikona 2 is an exceptional driver.
Jim
Jim, as much fun as participating in an irrelevant but juicy dialectic debate, or watching from the sidelines can be, I couldn't agree more about the over-thinking. I can't remember the last time I used anything larger than #18 "zip-cord" for a FR driver - in many cases a single pair of #24 solid, or more than #14 for woofers .
Several years ago I was able to leverage some domestic goodwill into the acquisition of a pair of Mark Audio MAOP7s, maybe I can repeat that luck with a pair with of the E2s, while I still have the wherewithal to build appropriate enclosures.
Several years ago I was able to leverage some domestic goodwill into the acquisition of a pair of Mark Audio MAOP7s, maybe I can repeat that luck with a pair with of the E2s, while I still have the wherewithal to build appropriate enclosures.
Hi Jim,
It's nice to hear from you since you are also the long time owner of
jx92's (before production was moved to a low cost producer). The enclosure that I have my pair in works beautifully with the JX92, so I'm feeling pretty good that the Eikona 2's will also work well with a little tuning. Hearing you say that they are an exceptional driver is a fine testimonial and makes me think that they are an easy upgrade path for me.
PJN
Attachments
Greetings all - I try not to get involved in any Jordan vs Mark Audio driver discussions, so I've only just caught up with how the thread has developed. To answer some specific points raised:
BLACK CONES - Ted and I did consider it when production moved to Scanspeak. The Eikona uses Ted's proprietary cone from a specialised, UK-based cone maker, so it was straightforward to produce. However we both preferred the look of the silver/grey cone. We also have white, orange and blue cones in case we decide to go psychedelic
EIKONA 1 AND 2 - the move to the 2 was to ramp up production quantities and build quality. We went with the circular chassis as although the Eikona 1 shape has the advantage that the units can be stacked closer in an array, it's harder for DIYers to work with.
VS JX92S - As mentioned, the Eikona is a substantial improvement over the JX92. So much so that we don't feel an immediate need to re-introduce the 50mm cone drivers.
Finally, thanks to Jim for his comments. The first of his MLTL designs went on our site recently but we've had constructors building them for a year now and the feedback has been uniformly positive. Martin's MathCad spreadsheets can work wonders when used sympathetically by a good designer.
PJN's horn design looks fabulous.
BLACK CONES - Ted and I did consider it when production moved to Scanspeak. The Eikona uses Ted's proprietary cone from a specialised, UK-based cone maker, so it was straightforward to produce. However we both preferred the look of the silver/grey cone. We also have white, orange and blue cones in case we decide to go psychedelic
EIKONA 1 AND 2 - the move to the 2 was to ramp up production quantities and build quality. We went with the circular chassis as although the Eikona 1 shape has the advantage that the units can be stacked closer in an array, it's harder for DIYers to work with.
VS JX92S - As mentioned, the Eikona is a substantial improvement over the JX92. So much so that we don't feel an immediate need to re-introduce the 50mm cone drivers.
Finally, thanks to Jim for his comments. The first of his MLTL designs went on our site recently but we've had constructors building them for a year now and the feedback has been uniformly positive. Martin's MathCad spreadsheets can work wonders when used sympathetically by a good designer.
PJN's horn design looks fabulous.
PJN's enclosure for his JX92S speaker is exceptional. I hope he develops an Eikona version in the future.
Thanks to Collin for his efforts to add my Eikona 2 design to the Jordan website. In case you wish to view this page go to:
http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/PDFs/Eikona_MLTL30.pdf
Collin published the 30 inch version but you can follow my original posting for taller version if you are interested.
Jim
Thanks to Collin for his efforts to add my Eikona 2 design to the Jordan website. In case you wish to view this page go to:
http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/PDFs/Eikona_MLTL30.pdf
Collin published the 30 inch version but you can follow my original posting for taller version if you are interested.
Jim
Many years ago I built my first full range driver speakers, Jordan JX92's in VTL cabinets and I was very happy. That immediacy you get from a full ranger with no crossover was a revelation to me. Other commercial speakers came and went, various Proac Response and Dynaudio Contour models included - all excellent speakers in their own way but the Jordans were kept and often had their turn in the system.
Then I started hearing good things about Alpair drivers - mostly on here so decided to try a pair of 12p's in an open baffle with a 15" woofer.
Liked them a lot but they were tolerated rather than loved by my better half. So decided to try Frugelhorns first with 7p's then 10p's
Like them a lot Of the three builds my overall preference was for the 10p's in Frugelhorn XL cabinets and I also preferred them to the Jordan VTL's - only just mind but the Alpairs were less fussy about room placement and had a smoother top end. Meanwhile the VTL cabinets were lurking in the back of the garage so one day I decided to smarten them up and re-install the Jordan drivers. In style terms I really preferred the look of the VTL's over the FHXL's - what to do - Eikonas? Apparently I would enjoy a smoother top end and lower bass which turned out to be true
So, back to the original question Eikona vs Alpair 10 my preference in the cabinets above is firmly for the Eikona. Smooth and extended at both ends with micro-detail that the Frugelhorns just can't match. The story hasn't stopped there though. An opportunity to buy another pair of nearly new Eikonas led me to build these.
A slightly modified version of Jordan's DCR plans to raise the drivers up a bit. Result is more of the same. In my opinion they are an incredible pair of speakers. I prefer sirloin to rump steak, wife prefers Sauvignon Blanc to Chardonnay, it's all a matter of taste but I think the Eikona is worth the extra money over the Alpairs, Alpairs are excellent, Eikonas brilliant.
Nearly forgot, thanks to Colin for advice given to my questions about changing the DCR plans.
Then I started hearing good things about Alpair drivers - mostly on here
so decided to try a pair of 12p's in an open baffle with a 15" woofer.
Liked them a lot but they were tolerated rather than loved by my better half. So decided to try Frugelhorns first with 7p's then 10p's
Like them a lot
Of the three builds my overall preference was for the 10p's in Frugelhorn XL cabinets and I also preferred them to the Jordan VTL's - only just mind but the Alpairs were less fussy about room placement and had a smoother top end. Meanwhile the VTL cabinets were lurking in the back of the garage so one day I decided to smarten them up and re-install the Jordan drivers. In style terms I really preferred the look of the VTL's over the FHXL's - what to do - Eikonas? Apparently I would enjoy a smoother top end and lower bass which turned out to be true So, back to the original question Eikona vs Alpair 10 my preference in the cabinets above is firmly for the Eikona. Smooth and extended at both ends with micro-detail that the Frugelhorns just can't match. The story hasn't stopped there though. An opportunity to buy another pair of nearly new Eikonas led me to build these.
A slightly modified version of Jordan's DCR plans to raise the drivers up a bit. Result is more of the same. In my opinion they are an incredible pair of speakers. I prefer sirloin to rump steak, wife prefers Sauvignon Blanc to Chardonnay, it's all a matter of taste but I think the Eikona is worth the extra money over the Alpairs, Alpairs are excellent, Eikonas brilliant.
Nearly forgot, thanks to Colin for advice given to my questions about changing the DCR plans.
Hi Paul,
With my original JX92s in VTL I found a 15 watt EL84 amp worked very well but it didn't quite have the oomph for the Eikonas so I went back to solid state with better results. I have the twin DCR Eikonas wired in parallel so sensitivity is up to 92dB but as the impedance is down to 3 ohms I don't think I'd be risking my valve amp!
With my original JX92s in VTL I found a 15 watt EL84 amp worked very well but it didn't quite have the oomph for the Eikonas so I went back to solid state with better results. I have the twin DCR Eikonas wired in parallel so sensitivity is up to 92dB but as the impedance is down to 3 ohms I don't think I'd be risking my valve amp!
Presume you mean two in the DCR cabinet? Imagery is excellent, wider than the speakers and plenty of depth. The level of detail is exceptional - I am hearing new, low level detail that I didn't hear with one Eikona in the VTL cabinet.
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