Like story is your confabulation interesting, John, but 'cos we don't know concrete differences between both supplyes, is informational value of these words near zero, sorry... Good designer need for result which blunder also explanation ( and you probably have it )...Or is all, which only stink of money, top secret ? 
Isn't that where Dr. Bruce and Mr. Curl are on the same rail track ? If fancy pants smps's count, that is.
I've had the pleasure of checking out Mr. Carr's Connoisseur.
(maybe he should explain sometime what that means, i thought it should be Connaisseur)
In my book that is one marvellous piece of preamplifier, and even a goodlooking one. Many seem to have the same ears as me, must mean i may be deaf.
Since this is a thread on the CTC Blowtorch, i think of the Lyra reading this thread, not something from Torrensville with 1ppm distortion.
I've had the pleasure of checking out Mr. Carr's Connoisseur.
(maybe he should explain sometime what that means, i thought it should be Connaisseur)
In my book that is one marvellous piece of preamplifier, and even a goodlooking one. Many seem to have the same ears as me, must mean i may be deaf.
Since this is a thread on the CTC Blowtorch, i think of the Lyra reading this thread, not something from Torrensville with 1ppm distortion.
John,
I have learnt to ignore those people in this forum who have nothing better to do than to make cheap remarks or make joke of other people's language capabilities.
Of course they can have a different opinion. But I wonder if any of them ever open a new thread, publish their work, and let the world admire their genious design approach.
And if they don't, then they have nothing to show, nothing to contribute. The rest of us all know. But the more we react to them, the more excited they get. Ignore them altogether, and sooner or later they would have no fun here, and they will find another thread to air their "aspirations".
I hope we get back to circuits before too long.
Patrick
I have learnt to ignore those people in this forum who have nothing better to do than to make cheap remarks or make joke of other people's language capabilities.
Of course they can have a different opinion. But I wonder if any of them ever open a new thread, publish their work, and let the world admire their genious design approach.
And if they don't, then they have nothing to show, nothing to contribute. The rest of us all know. But the more we react to them, the more excited they get. Ignore them altogether, and sooner or later they would have no fun here, and they will find another thread to air their "aspirations".
I hope we get back to circuits before too long.
Patrick
EUVL said:
God made all sort of different mouths, at different instants also having made some of stupid mouths.
Amp designers make all sort of different sonic qualities.
And some of them, successful designers, make good results that many fans like enjoying musical emotion through them as a second best following the natural music. If there is musical emotion, I have never seen any listner complaining distorting system, etc . . . They are just busy to collect donuts music.
Even if many many fans of one music re-production system enjoy music from it, some of others winks to themselves, saying "muddy sound, full of distor . . . "
God really made many different people . . .
Regards
Once upon a time I was the moderator here. The problem in those days was a small cadre of established members who were incredibly nasty and oppressive to newer, inexperienced members.
The fashion has changed, it seems. Newbies are no longer the target. Nowadays, it's the professional designers who are badgered and criticized. Like their spiritual predecessors, the hoodlums seem to feel that making snotty remarks somehow constitutes a "contribution" to the thread and the site as a whole. Of course, others see their self-satisfied remarks for what they really are: Deterioration in the signal to noise ratio here at DIY.
I at least had the excuse that I was moderator in name only and had no real power to do anything about people who chose to act like the back end of a horse. So what's the current moderation team's rationale for letting this kind of behavior go on?
Grey
The fashion has changed, it seems. Newbies are no longer the target. Nowadays, it's the professional designers who are badgered and criticized. Like their spiritual predecessors, the hoodlums seem to feel that making snotty remarks somehow constitutes a "contribution" to the thread and the site as a whole. Of course, others see their self-satisfied remarks for what they really are: Deterioration in the signal to noise ratio here at DIY.
I at least had the excuse that I was moderator in name only and had no real power to do anything about people who chose to act like the back end of a horse. So what's the current moderation team's rationale for letting this kind of behavior go on?
Grey
Jean Hiraga listens to power supplies, in AudioExpress article
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=651442#post651442
lumanauw said:
.... and he knows what he is doing. Some months ago I discovered peculiar PSU problem by very efficient tweeter. Due to insufficient voltage drop across LM317/337 there were very short (microsecond) spikes at the output of 317/337 with repetition frequency 100Hz. Amplitude of spikes was lower than 10mV. As they were very narrow, i.e. rich in high frequency content, the amp curcuitry was unable to suppress them (PSRR lowering at high freq). It was also difficult to measure (to synchronize). Sensitive tweeter told the problem.
EUVL said:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40543&highlight=
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45442&highlight=
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64843&highlight=
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41752&highlight=
I think that, like Michael says, we don’t measure all the useful factors and that there is no absolute subjective agreement on what is best because we all gives different weights to different factors.
We simply may or may not be sensitive to some defects. I’ll make a parallel with video-projectors. Two years ago (I don’t know the current situation) there was a general agreement that DLP projectors did provide a much better image because they had a smaller inter-pixel gap and a much higher contrast ratio. However for 5-10% of the population single DLP machine are absolutely horrible because they (I’m one of them) see flashes of the 3 fundamentals colours (the rainbow effect). So depending on your sensitivity to this point you arrive to completely opposite conclusions. I imagine that the same thing goes with audio.
2 comments on my own post about the psu :
I know I can use feedback to reduce the output impedance of the shunt reg, but as we are in a no feedback design, this is not an option I would like to follow.
In the case of the blowtorch the .85 ohm equivalent internal impedance may be no problem at all because it seems quite resistive and that it is in series with the 200 ohm resistance shared by the input ant output fets of the folded cascode.
Regards
Philippe
We simply may or may not be sensitive to some defects. I’ll make a parallel with video-projectors. Two years ago (I don’t know the current situation) there was a general agreement that DLP projectors did provide a much better image because they had a smaller inter-pixel gap and a much higher contrast ratio. However for 5-10% of the population single DLP machine are absolutely horrible because they (I’m one of them) see flashes of the 3 fundamentals colours (the rainbow effect). So depending on your sensitivity to this point you arrive to completely opposite conclusions. I imagine that the same thing goes with audio.
2 comments on my own post about the psu :
I know I can use feedback to reduce the output impedance of the shunt reg, but as we are in a no feedback design, this is not an option I would like to follow.
In the case of the blowtorch the .85 ohm equivalent internal impedance may be no problem at all because it seems quite resistive and that it is in series with the 200 ohm resistance shared by the input ant output fets of the folded cascode.
Regards
Philippe
The idea that John, Nelson, Charles, et. al. could design perfect circuits if only they wanted to, but choose to produce colored ones instead, is incompletely reasoned. There are other possibilities that are, in fact, more supported by the facts.
Let's assume that I am designing a circuit (which, in fact, I am). Let's say that I get to a point where I find that option A leads to better dynamics and option B leads to better imaging. I can't chose both A and B--it must be one or the other. Given my personal perferences, I'll take option B, as I value imaging somewhat more than dynamics. In a perfect world, I'd be able to have both, but in an imperfect world, I have to accept that I can't have everything I want.
Hence, my circuit ends up with an identifiable sound.
Gee, what a surprise.
To attribute this sort of choice to malice or some kind of sly marketing approach amounts to blaming the designer for the fact that our parts and topologies are imperfect.
pinkmouse,
The "ignore it and maybe it will go away" approach has been tried ad infinitum and has failed utterly. Simply put, some people get their jollies by acting poorly. Ignoring them only encourages them to go to greater lengths to get attention. Granted, fussing doesn't work with certain types of people either.
So if ignoring them doesn't work, and fussing doesn't work, what options are left? Perhaps a slap on the wrist? Perhaps a "time-out?" Perhaps being sent to the principal?
We are losing valued members due to this sort of thing.
Seen Charles Hansen around here recently?
Grey
Let's assume that I am designing a circuit (which, in fact, I am). Let's say that I get to a point where I find that option A leads to better dynamics and option B leads to better imaging. I can't chose both A and B--it must be one or the other. Given my personal perferences, I'll take option B, as I value imaging somewhat more than dynamics. In a perfect world, I'd be able to have both, but in an imperfect world, I have to accept that I can't have everything I want.
Hence, my circuit ends up with an identifiable sound.
Gee, what a surprise.
To attribute this sort of choice to malice or some kind of sly marketing approach amounts to blaming the designer for the fact that our parts and topologies are imperfect.
pinkmouse,
The "ignore it and maybe it will go away" approach has been tried ad infinitum and has failed utterly. Simply put, some people get their jollies by acting poorly. Ignoring them only encourages them to go to greater lengths to get attention. Granted, fussing doesn't work with certain types of people either.
So if ignoring them doesn't work, and fussing doesn't work, what options are left? Perhaps a slap on the wrist? Perhaps a "time-out?" Perhaps being sent to the principal?
We are losing valued members due to this sort of thing.
Seen Charles Hansen around here recently?
Grey
Interesting point, Phillippe. I didn't know that about DLP projectors.
Personally, I am not against negative feedback in principle, but I don't know if it would serve any real purpose in the shunt regulator. Usually, negative feedback causes other potential problems, such as transient overshoot, that can compromise the sonic performance in some situations, even though it improves some measured spec.
Personally, I am not against negative feedback in principle, but I don't know if it would serve any real purpose in the shunt regulator. Usually, negative feedback causes other potential problems, such as transient overshoot, that can compromise the sonic performance in some situations, even though it improves some measured spec.
GRollins said:
The case is that these attributes are strongly system dependent. Depend on player, speakers, room acoustics and last but not least on recording stuff. And subjective preferences are very different and do not tend to agree on same conclusion. My belief is that very good "common" parameters are necessary condition for an excellent component. Necessary, but not satisfactory.
John,
Is there any Notch filtering in the Blowtorch PSU ? I guess it is ! Interesting a challenge, no ?
Joke : is the PSU the most important thing to study in an amplifier ? OH ! YES !!! I only unsoldered mine, and the amplifier is now absolutely dead quiet (for specialists, well over -140 dB noise background)....
And when unplugged from mains, the data is even better. (-160 dB !!!!!)... Aahhhhhhhhh ! Good specs, really !!!!
Jbaudiophile
Is there any Notch filtering in the Blowtorch PSU ? I guess it is ! Interesting a challenge, no ?
Joke : is the PSU the most important thing to study in an amplifier ? OH ! YES !!! I only unsoldered mine, and the amplifier is now absolutely dead quiet (for specialists, well over -140 dB noise background)....
And when unplugged from mains, the data is even better. (-160 dB !!!!!)... Aahhhhhhhhh ! Good specs, really !!!!
Jbaudiophile
jbaudiophile said:
And when unplugged from mains, the data is even better. (-160 dB !!!!!)... Aahhhhhhhhh ! Good specs, really !!!!
Jbaudiophile
This need not be necessarilly true. This afternoon I have measured a photodiode preamplifier. With power switched off, there was a considerable 50 Hz component in the output signal. This has disappeared after switching on the PSU. Reason? Very simple. When switched off, the output impedance raised dramatically and measuring circuitry was influenced by surrounding electrical field component ...
Hello, PMA,
Well... A good lesson I take here ... Will let the switch "ON" now (but with the PSU still not connected as data is better...).
But anyway, thanks to have a stong humour sense and add your 2 cents,...
But perhaps that the Notch filter I suggest to use would be of interest : either it is actually in the Blowtorch (and could be discussed) or it is not into... and here a suggestion if such a case...
I made a lot of searches around that and found that with the 22000 uF or so second caps, 60Hz mains would be around 55 dB down... (!!!!) before the series regulation !
And still not sure, but if the shunt Mosfet regulation is left floating, the noise and rubbish rejection would be far better that I measured (and still expect to do soon !!!).
All the best, PMA !!!
Interesting threads of yours !!!
Jbaudiophile
Well... A good lesson I take here ... Will let the switch "ON" now (but with the PSU still not connected as data is better...).
But anyway, thanks to have a stong humour sense and add your 2 cents,...
But perhaps that the Notch filter I suggest to use would be of interest : either it is actually in the Blowtorch (and could be discussed) or it is not into... and here a suggestion if such a case...
I made a lot of searches around that and found that with the 22000 uF or so second caps, 60Hz mains would be around 55 dB down... (!!!!) before the series regulation !
And still not sure, but if the shunt Mosfet regulation is left floating, the noise and rubbish rejection would be far better that I measured (and still expect to do soon !!!).
All the best, PMA !!!
Interesting threads of yours !!!
Jbaudiophile
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