I was trying to tell you that this (good sounding) driver has a bandwidth large enough to be used between 500 and 16000 with a flat response in an apropiated circular horn. No dual throat needed at all.
hahha...SC is coming soon..haha, i do not know why..from various..TAD based horn (2 ways) i had listened to, i want a little bit more at the top end...., mostly within space less than 500 sq ft.., so this make me wonder...if i have a dual, as my place is a about 800/900 sq ft, and i shall sit at about 4 meter from the speaker..
so it is nice...i can settle my design by buying existing horn
but it is nice to know..if it is possible to have a tweeter and the mid range all in one horn..
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I believe that Iwata horn has been made. I recently saw it (I think) on another forum.
Jean-Michel, thanks for the info. I figured that the floor horn would not go up very high. 350Hz seems about right, tho it's got to be hard to get a compression driver+horn midrange to play down that low and stay clean. Nice system.
Jean-Michel, thanks for the info. I figured that the floor horn would not go up very high. 350Hz seems about right, tho it's got to be hard to get a compression driver+horn midrange to play down that low and stay clean. Nice system.
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i think i see it too, it seem nice as the height of the mouth is around 320mm, compared to the round horn for the frequency range, it may be up to 900mm..
what may be your compression driver recommendation, if it is from 350hz to 12K hz? some said..Radian 950 is ok.. i am not sure.., if it si a radian, what bass cone..i should go for?
350Hz to 12KHz? That seems tough. I have not seen a horn/CD combo that plays clean under 1.5X the wavelength of the hypotenuse of the horn mouth. Crossing an octave above that is safe.
But you have a lot more experience than I with horns, so will cede to your experience in the matter. The 1803 is a BIG horn. The 511 not so much.
But you have a lot more experience than I with horns, so will cede to your experience in the matter. The 1803 is a BIG horn. The 511 not so much.
i heard...couple of example..not excatly 350Hz , but something like 420hz to 20Hz..2 ways design, the Rey Monitor RM7, and Warp 7
and i also listened to a few TAD 2401 twin,. i think they are 7xxhz till 20K hz
all by TAD 4001
at Hong Kong, most horn users...are either those TAD based monitor, Vintage RCA / Altec / JBL, or Westlake
I did not listen a vast variety of horn,. and never build a speaker tooo..
and i also listened to a few TAD 2401 twin,. i think they are 7xxhz till 20K hz
all by TAD 4001
at Hong Kong, most horn users...are either those TAD based monitor, Vintage RCA / Altec / JBL, or Westlake
I did not listen a vast variety of horn,. and never build a speaker tooo..
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There're several kinds of big throat midrange horns for fullrangers (with big magnets) which would play from 160Hz or so to the very top (depends on the drivers). But because of the big throat and the flare(s), such horns stop loading the drivers above a certain frequency, where the drivers are on their own for playing the HF.
Not sure what you mean by 'clean' since all compression horns suffer from throat distortion to a greater or lesser extent and how obvious it is depends on how well terminated it is and how hard it's driven same as with a vent tube.
Stacked 511/802s have slightly more effective mouth, throat area than an 805/288, so it seems reasonable to me that it too could be used down to ~350 Hz if low power matching impedance driven, but never tried it during the short time I had some. When dynamic symphony CDs came along though, I was forced to switch back to 500 Hz.
Note too that it's the effective mouth area that matters, so the stacked 511s need to be mounted to a ~ 77.5" perimeter baffle whereas the 1803 already has more than sufficient area to get enough loading.
Again though, dual drivers driven with a low power matching impedance, ergo trading peak SPL for a wider BW at low throat distortion is key, especially with the stacked 511s since it's too short. Damping the horn's mouth to reduce reflections back to the throat is a good plan in any case if not heavily rounded over.
WRT HF response, obviously, the 1" will play higher before resorting to break-up modes, so one can argue the SQ of EQing a larger throat to 12 kHz, but cut off up this high [as opposed to no low pass], most folks can't tell the difference between sizes if experiments using different size tweeters is any indication.
GM
Hello,
Autotech commercialize many horns I used to design (BTW I have not commercial interst in Autotech, I give all my ideas in audio for free).
For an example of use of the Iwata 300, give a look to :
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/166312-waveguides-horns-89.html#post2825851
There is also the E-JMLC300 which possess a more controlled directivty.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...1324570129-waveguides-horns-img_4255-copy.jpg
Here is a system using that horn:
http://forums.melaudia.net/attachment.php?aid=2480
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
Hello,
That horn was built very recently, readings can only be done on a French forum which is private.
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
LOL! I see someone finally used computing power to work out a human mouth based geometry. So, how does it compare to a traditional WG? Any advantage other than a provocative look?
GM
Hello GM,
The look is not the result of an empirical choice but is the result of the calculation I made in order to provide both a more horizontal directivity and the most acoustically resistive load to the driver .
For more info about the ideas behind that shape, please read :
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/140190-jean-michel-lecleach-horns-92.html#post2430238
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
The look is not the result of an empirical choice but is the result of the calculation I made in order to provide both a more horizontal directivity and the most acoustically resistive load to the driver .
For more info about the ideas behind that shape, please read :
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/140190-jean-michel-lecleach-horns-92.html#post2430238
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
Hello,
350Hz is generally considered as a limit to the power response for folded bass horns. In unfolded bass horn you may obtain a higher frequency limit at the listening place if you try to keep smaller as possible the width of the ducts of which the horn is made.
This is inpired from the Western Electric 15A (a 4 meters long horn) which posses a frequency limit around 5kHz. This characteristics is obtained because the thickness of the duct from the throat to the half length of the horn is small (the ratio width/thickness of the duct is large in that zone ). This allows the wavefront to keep a close contact to the walls and to keep a good shape.
Here attached a schematics of Didier's floor bass horn.
Both the height of the horn which is constant and small (around 40 centimeters) and the width of the 2 ducts per side are small (onto large distance from the throat). The wavefront keeps a shape (a good "coherence" even if the word is probably not well adapted to the case).
The first measuremenst I made show a frequency limit over 800Hz at the listening place!
Those first measurements lead to some changes in the rear volume of the Altec 515 (and now the measured low frequency cut-off appears to be 27Hz). I'll perform other measurements in January or February and I'll pubish them.
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
350Hz is generally considered as a limit to the power response for folded bass horns. In unfolded bass horn you may obtain a higher frequency limit at the listening place if you try to keep smaller as possible the width of the ducts of which the horn is made.
This is inpired from the Western Electric 15A (a 4 meters long horn) which posses a frequency limit around 5kHz. This characteristics is obtained because the thickness of the duct from the throat to the half length of the horn is small (the ratio width/thickness of the duct is large in that zone ). This allows the wavefront to keep a close contact to the walls and to keep a good shape.
Here attached a schematics of Didier's floor bass horn.
Both the height of the horn which is constant and small (around 40 centimeters) and the width of the 2 ducts per side are small (onto large distance from the throat). The wavefront keeps a shape (a good "coherence" even if the word is probably not well adapted to the case).
The first measuremenst I made show a frequency limit over 800Hz at the listening place!
Those first measurements lead to some changes in the rear volume of the Altec 515 (and now the measured low frequency cut-off appears to be 27Hz). I'll perform other measurements in January or February and I'll pubish them.
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
Attachments
I wonder...what is the recommended range for E jmclc 300 ? good from 700Hz? how's the characteristic beyond 15Khz ? i wonder... if i use a unit of BMS 4590P....? Also the radian 950 seem very nice..upto 20K hz too, wondering..how the tonal balance characteristic of the BMS VS 950 ?
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> banc d'essai du kit aéria système
As you can see it goes up to 16/17 Kz without problems and real energy (not like dome tweeters).
My filter goes a little higher and flatter with this horn.
I tried to add a tweeter for the upper end: No good, it less natural.
Without any tweeter, cymbals just sound as real ones; energy without any artificial hisses. Everything sound very natural, even feminine voices, Piano etc...
In an other way, i'm more than 20 years old ...