... This where you see you need a little more Sd than a little monitor if it's not for palying at low casual volume ! It's maybe also because a little Sd is too slow than a big Sd to make the job in these frfequencies range to playback the transcients ! Also maybe a question of air impedance coupling when no horn...
Very curious to listen to this M2 in the bass register (and mid as XO is > 1000 Hz)
Very curious to listen to this M2 in the bass register (and mid as XO is > 1000 Hz)
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I am a total dummy with horns... Is it really possible to stack small horn and big horn that way without compromising polar response? Is it possible that these Avangarde scattered sources sound any good? Me very doubt full...
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His setup is completely different now, but I am not a fan of round horns either. I prefer a more rectangular profile like Iwata, Yuichi, Seos, H290c, QSC etc.
According to my brother, who has listened to several Avantgarde loudspeakers, they tend to sound like trumpets. He did like the Uno though with the nextel finished horns. Room size, loudspeaker placement and distance from the listening position are important factors to the actual experience.
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I also thought that round was wrong because increasing vertical distances between sources, so i choose Iwata 600 for testing, though it does not go any low. I would have prefered Iwata 300 but found the response very ragged at the top, and regarding adding a HF unit ontop not a good idea. I tried to had a ribbon on top of the IWATA 600 and intregation of the highs badly sucks.
I believe that a horn system should not involve more tan 2 ways ...
Btw, M2 is 2 way, Geddes's are 2W, while Synergies/Unities are kindof 1Way.
Exceptions are old theater Altec stuff ( heard once VOT in a disco, and...not my sound) and the japanese fans of Onken and stuff like these shown by Jean Hiraga as "examplary" funky 5Ways all horn systems...
No free lunch of course, compromises have to be made, always.
In the end I like to keep things as minimalistic as possible. The less variables to optimize, the better. Just my 2 cents.
With a hint to this topic (we have been all over the place: thats what I like about the M2.
Though, in essence its not a true classical 2 way, due to the coaxial, it is a fairly straightforward design. In fact, it may even be considered a fully blown mini monitor.
In my humble opinion: probably the most important decision to be made in designing, building or buying loudspeakers is : How should the midrange be dealt with? Should this be 1 dedicated driver, more dedicated drivers (low-mid + high-mid, fill in your preferred freq. ranges), or could just 2 drivers (cone + dome, horn, AMT etc,) suffice to 'cover it all'?
I have heard very admirable sound from multi way's, but far more often have I been really involved, moved - or whatever adverbs have you - by a well designed 2way. Well designed means, well chosen 'trade off's' and accordingly well chosen materials.
Iam not sure if some one has heard these, but one of the iterations of the Seos flatpacks from diysoundgroup was built with a simple comp driver and a cheapo buy-out OEM Celestion 15" mid low driver (TF1520 or 1525). I remember that I was very anxious to know how this would turn out, because I know Celestion woofs and comps ability to 'sing'. From what I remember this turned out to be one of the most musically involving Seos builds at that time.
That is what I appreciate.
Amen.
In the end I like to keep things as minimalistic as possible. The less variables to optimize, the better. Just my 2 cents.
With a hint to this topic (we have been all over the place
: thats what I like about the M2.Though, in essence its not a true classical 2 way, due to the coaxial, it is a fairly straightforward design. In fact, it may even be considered a fully blown mini monitor.
In my humble opinion: probably the most important decision to be made in designing, building or buying loudspeakers is : How should the midrange be dealt with? Should this be 1 dedicated driver, more dedicated drivers (low-mid + high-mid, fill in your preferred freq. ranges), or could just 2 drivers (cone + dome, horn, AMT etc,) suffice to 'cover it all'?
I have heard very admirable sound from multi way's, but far more often have I been really involved, moved - or whatever adverbs have you - by a well designed 2way. Well designed means, well chosen 'trade off's' and accordingly well chosen materials.
Iam not sure if some one has heard these, but one of the iterations of the Seos flatpacks from diysoundgroup was built with a simple comp driver and a cheapo buy-out OEM Celestion 15" mid low driver (TF1520 or 1525). I remember that I was very anxious to know how this would turn out, because I know Celestion woofs and comps ability to 'sing'. From what I remember this turned out to be one of the most musically involving Seos builds at that time.
That is what I appreciate.
Amen.
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No, it was the Cheap Thrills kit, designed by Bill Waslo.
Here's some info:
Celestion 15" buyout and SEOS12/DNA360 | HiFiCircuit
I was especially interested in the performance of the Celestion 15" OEM. Some time later I just missed the opportunity of buying 2 NOS 15" Truvox drivers with similar performance but more low end 'grunt'. These would have been very nice for a big 2way of around 200 L with Fb at 35Hz, -3dB at 45Hz and smooth enough for xo anywhere between 800-1500Hz. 50 euro for a pair in sealed package, still regret it.
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Buff, Denovo oem hf driver...Can't spend what costs the original B&C?
I find a real shame to see how chinese factories copy european design without having to worry about legal ... nor "moral" ( BIG LOL) issues... I would never sponsor such obvious piracy, for a handfull of miserable dolars...
https://bmyspeaker.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-50216812/PA_HF_Speakers.html
I find a real shame to see how chinese factories copy european design without having to worry about legal ... nor "moral" ( BIG LOL) issues... I would never sponsor such obvious piracy, for a handfull of miserable dolars...
https://bmyspeaker.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-50216812/PA_HF_Speakers.html
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Might as well follow Bill and move on to the Synergy design
That's an option I consider. A nice synergy mid/top section on top of big bass cabs. XO will be challenging though.
Buff, Denovo oem hf driver...Can't spend what costs the original B&C?
I find a real shame to see how chinese factories copy european design without having to worry about legal ... nor "moral" ( BIG LOL) issues... I would never sponsor such obvious piracy, for a handfull of miserable dolars...
https://bmyspeaker.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-50216812/PA_HF_Speakers.html
A pair of DE 250 is likely to be cheaper here in Europe compared to buying Denovo comps incl. shipment + taxes. Besides, Beyma, Celestion, Faital have nice comps as well.
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Btw, it is not so hard to find a Beyma 15" with the same flat behavior than the Celestion Buy out you missed (an even flater at average 98 dB).... But the price of course !
If the Seos horn is avaliable standalone : I will go indeed for the B&C or the Beyma compression CP380/m : COMPRESSION DRIVERS CP-380/M | Beyma
15", flat : LOW & MID FREQUENCY 15WRS400 | Beyma
nearly flat 15" : LOW & MID FREQUENCY 15LW30 | Beyma
nearly flat : LOW & MID FREQUENCY 15MI100 | Beyma
If the Seos horn is avaliable standalone : I will go indeed for the B&C or the Beyma compression CP380/m : COMPRESSION DRIVERS CP-380/M | Beyma
15", flat : LOW & MID FREQUENCY 15WRS400 | Beyma
nearly flat 15" : LOW & MID FREQUENCY 15LW30 | Beyma
nearly flat : LOW & MID FREQUENCY 15MI100 | Beyma
Weltersys did a nice one with a Full range at the Apex : Vifa Tc9 driver : nearly flat and 100 dB efficienty if I'm correct !
But ask some wood skill !
Some nice designs in synergy conf with foam horns by xrq971 as well in the FR forum : look for Trynergy !
Might as well use this one: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/285030-bookshelf-multi-way-point-source-horn.html instead of the Seos horn.
Bass bin below, although this one could reach low on it's own.. Making a crossover between the two simpler to figure out.
Bass bin below, although this one could reach low on it's own.. Making a crossover between the two simpler to figure out.