Some planned to putt a JBL Be compression driver in lieu of the coaxial JBLs in the M2 !
Many says that the M2 was surely one of the best if not the best JBL made... have not heared myself !
Afficionados bar : Project M2 DIY Thread
PS : I'm asking myself, but the XO choosed between the tweeter (the dome in the petites JBL monitors above), what are the factors the others 1" dome could not have ??
What is needed , Low Fs, high BL because a horn (?), special Qts or Qm range ?... or simply the way the frequency curve is with this 1" JBL dome ??? Btw : off topic, forgett it ! Forgett it twice i fthe cabinet is the worst part of those liitle monitors !
Many says that the M2 was surely one of the best if not the best JBL made... have not heared myself !
Afficionados bar : Project M2 DIY Thread
PS : I'm asking myself, but the XO choosed between the tweeter (the dome in the petites JBL monitors above), what are the factors the others 1" dome could not have ??
What is needed , Low Fs, high BL because a horn (?), special Qts or Qm range ?... or simply the way the frequency curve is with this 1" JBL dome ??? Btw : off topic, forgett it ! Forgett it twice i fthe cabinet is the worst part of those liitle monitors !
Last edited:
They are cooking some nice things in that M2 thread on Audioheritage.
With regards to your questions on tweaking a LSR 305/308: Despite the engineering efforts (waveguide, driver integration etc.) resulting in a nearly perfect freq. response, these are not per se ideal loudspeakers.
The LSR range are designed for near-field use. This won't be an issue as long as you use them in a small room (apart from their 'sonic signature').
Its features seem attractive and they are. But there is more to loudspeaker sound than a nice high-tech waveguide and stellar measurement data.
It would certainly be interesting to see if and how a LSR 305/308 could be improved. On paper there is no doubt about this being the case. But if it is worth the effort and money (in that specific order) is highly questionable.
Reverse engineering will be necessary to reveal data which may be used as input for the 'make over'. Determing T&S parameters is part of this process.
The easy 'trial & error' way: throw in a couple of 'supposed to work' drivers, upgrade the inards and see what happens ��
Last edited:
For the quick and dirty approach.
If you are living in France, why not score some quality Audax drivers (TW34 dome and the highly acclaimed woofers the type nr. of which I forgot)? These are properly designed, high efficiency drivers, that won't break the bank. My guess is they are likely to perform better in these LSR cabs compared to SB's. Troels has used the TW34 in a waveguide with excellent results. SB tweets seem quite tricky in this respect. I am not sure if this large dome will fit in the LSR WG without saw, cut and paste exercises.
On toutlehautparleur you may find more info.
If you are living in France, why not score some quality Audax drivers (TW34 dome and the highly acclaimed woofers the type nr. of which I forgot)? These are properly designed, high efficiency drivers, that won't break the bank. My guess is they are likely to perform better in these LSR cabs compared to SB's. Troels has used the TW34 in a waveguide with excellent results. SB tweets seem quite tricky in this respect. I am not sure if this large dome will fit in the LSR WG without saw, cut and paste exercises.
On toutlehautparleur you may find more info.
Last edited:
Sure, but a much smaller unit is required for LS305/L308, probably 25mm. I find this a real challenge, since the designer have insisted in crossing clearly under 2k which leads to a politically correct polar response, but also to an unpleasant constrained sound which most diyers would try to fix moving the xover point upwards, till the highs sound OK, and with the unit used for these monitors, i guess would be over 3khz...
I briefly heard LSR308 in a shop yesterday, and well, no miracle, sounds just as good as anything in its price range...
Last edited:
That would definitley not fit the thread title anymore !
I haven't heard the 476 so far but I do own a pair of 2430s. While there are cheaper drivers around, it is still a very nice one for its price.
I have them on cheap PT waveguides and this combination is definitley more linear "out of the box" than the famous 2344/2426 combination that I own as well.
Regards
Charles
Sure, but a much smaller unit is required for LS305/L308, probably 25mm. I find this a real challenge, since the designer have insisted in crossing clearly under 2k which leads to a politically correct polar response, but also to an unpleasant constrained sound which most diyers would try to fix moving the xover point upwards, till the highs sound OK, and with the unit used for these monitors, i guess would be over 3khz...
I briefly heard LSR308 in a shop yesterday, and well, no miracle, sounds just as good as anything in its price range...
If my memory serves me well, XO for the 308 is 1700 Hz, this implies a tweeter Fs well below 1000Hz. Several 1" dome tweeters are specced with Fs from 500 to 800Hz. However there is no guarantee each of these tweeters will sound nice below 2000Hz, even if these are WG loaded. Dave Pellegrene has tested many tweeters with his waveguides, with mixed results.
Last edited:
Sure, but a much smaller unit is required for LS305/L308, probably 25mm. I find this a real challenge, since the designer have insisted in crossing clearly under 2k which leads to a politically correct polar response, but also to an unpleasant constrained sound which most diyers would try to fix moving the xover point upwards, till the highs sound OK, and with the unit used for these monitors, i guess would be over 3khz...
I briefly heard LSR308 in a shop yesterday, and well, no miracle, sounds just as good as anything in its price range...
LOL, good information... no miracle !
This is true the price is quite low vs an "audiophile" equivalent... I was surprised to see the big quantity of afordable PA little unit for monitoring : Adam, Yamaha, etc !
I don't know why this Audax w34 is still so famous today for its sound with the tons of good tweeters we have on the markett... I have some pain to follow Troels's choice philosophy when it comes to choose a tweeter instead an another... even in the limit of a standalone brand per design !
How did you find your last JBL 3 ways with controled directivity VS your actual english style 2 ways ?
ya, even more since you need the amps and xo I think.
but its really not comparable to 305 or 308. Its one of the smallest speakers 2 way using a compression driver. Compete directly with the likes of amphion one18, gens 8351, ect
I am a great admirer of his work, but Troels appears to be a little inconsistent from time to time, I agree.
He seems an adherent of 'high efficiency' loudspeakers and has posted several entries on the topic.
His magnum opus project still is the 'DTQWT' for which he developed a custom 95 dB 8" driver in cooperation with Jantzen Audio and Seas.
Here is a quote from the maestro's website (SET= Single Ended Triode Tube Amplifiers and HES = High Efficiency Speakers):
"The punch and the drama" - is what we're always looking for and sometimes SET + HES can deliver this kind of aural nirvana. I've been sitting next to people experiencing SET + HES for the first time and saying: "Holy crap, this sounds like music!" I've had people in listening to the OB7 and saying: " - whauu...this sounds like a live performance!" So, what do these people do after returning home? They start yet another project based on an 85 dB heavy alu cone driver. Either the prospect of bringing two 100-200 litre cabs into their living room is too scary or the last 30 years of hifi-tradition is so engraved into our way of thinking hifi that we resign and turn to well-known technology."
Contrary to what you may expect from someone who posts stories like this, over the last couple of years Troels has primarily focussed on.....
building small 85-87dB loudspeakers
On topic: impressions of the 708i from the pro's @gearslutz:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/hig...one-18a-s-vs-what-other-should-mentioned.html
There also seem to exist a negative bias among audiophiles regarding horns ( colored) and narrow directivity ( poor imaging). At least i remember that this was the reason why Peter Qvortup from Audionote justified their use of conventional dome tweeters on their speakers, and considered using horns a comercial suicide considering mainstream audiophile "wisdom and taste".
When I saw the T/S Zaph measured from the Jantzen 8" first version : I was disapointed : 91.5 efficienty ! not 95 dB at all ?! But the sound of the W line paper driver from Seas is awsome : but dunno if the same cone with the 8000-hqm Troeld "designed" !
The OBL-15 is not so much High efficienty for my tatses (having still too much low sensivity speakers) but the good behavior in mid-bass is maybe a good placebo in relation to huge horns systems ! I wil not bet on the soundstage with the OBL-15 as well but haven't listened to the yet.
Me like this specs : http://yorkville.com/downloads/specsheet/ss_u15.pdf?v=1435672634...
The OBL-15 is not so much High efficienty for my tatses (having still too much low sensivity speakers) but the good behavior in mid-bass is maybe a good placebo in relation to huge horns systems ! I wil not bet on the soundstage with the OBL-15 as well but haven't listened to the yet.
Me like this specs : http://yorkville.com/downloads/specsheet/ss_u15.pdf?v=1435672634...
I know that calculated from TS params, 91.5 seem to be the value. But also from Zaph, SPL is clearly 95 dbs... above 200Hz.
Now, if you insist in those modern purist audiophile speaker placements far from any boundary ( floor standing on a narrow baffle in the middle of the room...), the bass will obviously be super light, and if you insist on baffle step correction, forget about those 95dbs.
I own these 8' and use them 2 way with corner placement ... and quite some eq to remove excess phatness in low medium and bass...
Now, if you insist in those modern purist audiophile speaker placements far from any boundary ( floor standing on a narrow baffle in the middle of the room...), the bass will obviously be super light, and if you insist on baffle step correction, forget about those 95dbs.
I own these 8' and use them 2 way with corner placement ... and quite some eq to remove excess phatness in low medium and bass...