Do whatever you would like, however the more sets of numbers/configurations you actually test, the closer someone who is considering one or the other -- will have to base their decision. Usually folks test single cabinets, but if you'd like to test pairs do that as well.
For pairs, personally I'd line up the configurations so they are as similar as possible if you are looking for A-B comparison-- mouths together, on their side, outdoors, away from buildings, 28v at 10m.
What I personally found was the TH had the advantage 40-80, and the T36 had the advantage 80-100.
Post pics and numbers
Hoffmanns iron law
Hi JBell,
After all is said and done, I still think your 600 liter box is the winner. Screamers box looses a little bass, and a little power. It fits his needs,
but I don't think it's better. Your new box (2x2x4ft) likewise looses a
little, as does my early version (attached). It looses almost 3dB.
How does your 2x2x4ft compare?
Hi JBell,
After all is said and done, I still think your 600 liter box is the winner. Screamers box looses a little bass, and a little power. It fits his needs,
but I don't think it's better. Your new box (2x2x4ft) likewise looses a
little, as does my early version (attached). It looses almost 3dB.
How does your 2x2x4ft compare?
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One advantage is very clear.
Building a box using 3/4 inch plywood is much easier than using 1/2 inch plywood.
The parts line up more easily and screws have more thickness to grip.
Still not sure how much bracing to add. Was considering some 1" by 2" strips on the back (inside, at 8 " intervals)
Building a box using 3/4 inch plywood is much easier than using 1/2 inch plywood.
The parts line up more easily and screws have more thickness to grip.
Still not sure how much bracing to add. Was considering some 1" by 2" strips on the back (inside, at 8 " intervals)
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Screamer did recommend I build Jbell's cabinets if only building 2. Does that mean 4 of Screamer's cabinets could keep up with 4 of Jbell's -that would be wierd.
Thanks!
good eye don -- have to agree. 2x2x4 does not = big box.
Scott gets the ability to transport his cabinets, My big box needs to be installed and stay put, or install wheels, a motor, steering wheel, etc.... hey, would that be considered 'bass steering?' (sorry for the terrible joke.)
I think scott nailed what I like about TH's... it's when you wind them up, as he puts it, "they get mean." People's ears (unfortunately) are trained to want to hear distortion on bass at PA levels, and if it's 100% missing, then to the ear something is missing and the bass doesn't sound 'right'. The TH gives just a little of that, so it doesn't sound like anything is missing, like with a FLH. But the key is... it's a 'little' bit, so it sounds a whole lot better than double 18 reflex boxes, and to my ear, better than FLH as well.
So, ben, wind both the T36 up and the big box TH up, and see what happens. If your experience is anything like mine with 4 36" wide T36 vs 4 of the big box TH -- it'll be an eye opener. (here's a hint of what I think you'll find, and why I suggest testing at 28v, not 2.83v.... ProSpeakers Forum - Fitzmaurice Titan 48 - Wayne Parham, October 21, 2007 at 14:31:26) and it's the reason the T36 got banished to the home of 'unfinished projects,' and eventually sold for cost of lumber.
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Musical instrument v. sound reproducer.
Hi salzburgsoundsytem,
From a few years of watching the goings-on in respect to tapped horns, and looking at the constant improvements in Hornresp: if you model it correctly in Hornresp, and if you build it accordingly, you will end up with a speaker that closely reflects your simulation; if your enclosure becomes too complex for Hornresp you can transfer over to AkAbak. You can also find an answer to your question in Post #244 in Hornresp.
In Post #245 jbell adresses the most important question of the audience response to a musical instrument versus accurate reproduction of an electronic signal, and how you can end up with firewood by not simulating before you build
. Valuable information, thanks.
Regards,
Hi salzburgsoundsytem,
From a few years of watching the goings-on in respect to tapped horns, and looking at the constant improvements in Hornresp: if you model it correctly in Hornresp, and if you build it accordingly, you will end up with a speaker that closely reflects your simulation; if your enclosure becomes too complex for Hornresp you can transfer over to AkAbak. You can also find an answer to your question in Post #244 in Hornresp.
In Post #245 jbell adresses the most important question of the audience response to a musical instrument versus accurate reproduction of an electronic signal, and how you can end up with firewood by not simulating before you build
. Valuable information, thanks.Regards,
Oliver - I'm Sorry
I feel a little guilty. You went to quite an effort to help me use my Titan 48 plywood parts. However, I did not have the tools to recut the pieces myself. It turned out that the cost of having them cut was high enough to persuade me to go for new wood.
I will play with your design when we have lousy weather and I have time on my hands, as I would like lighter speakers. Maybe I will try building the Jbells using braced 1/2"... It would be nice to be able to lift my subs without risking a hernia.
Regards, Ben
I feel a little guilty. You went to quite an effort to help me use my Titan 48 plywood parts. However, I did not have the tools to recut the pieces myself. It turned out that the cost of having them cut was high enough to persuade me to go for new wood.
I will play with your design when we have lousy weather and I have time on my hands, as I would like lighter speakers. Maybe I will try building the Jbells using braced 1/2"... It would be nice to be able to lift my subs without risking a hernia.
Regards, Ben
Damn it Jbell!
Until today I really loved my pair of T36. I was proud of them.
I put a lot of time and effort into building them. The plans cost me money. They needed their own equaliser. By my standards, they go damn low and damn loud.
One of your Tapped horns. Just one of them. A single Jbell tapped horn renders my pair of T36 obsolete. It is louder at 1W @ 1m and at 300W @ 1m. And I can take it up to 450W, as opposed to the lower T36 limit.
The only downsides are the weight and lack of content below 40 Hz. THe low content for dubstep etc. may or may not be worth keeping the old T36 for, I don't know.
My Jbell TH is flat, +- 0.9 dB from 40-100Hz. A 0.9 dB peak at 68 Hz!
It is much louder in front of the speakers than behind them. Very much. Directional bass without cardoids. Wow!
And of course I had to build a pair. When will I ever need both?
Thank you so much for encouraging me to build them. Will post RTA soon compared with T36.
Regards, Ben
Until today I really loved my pair of T36. I was proud of them.
I put a lot of time and effort into building them. The plans cost me money. They needed their own equaliser. By my standards, they go damn low and damn loud.
One of your Tapped horns. Just one of them. A single Jbell tapped horn renders my pair of T36 obsolete. It is louder at 1W @ 1m and at 300W @ 1m. And I can take it up to 450W, as opposed to the lower T36 limit.
The only downsides are the weight and lack of content below 40 Hz. THe low content for dubstep etc. may or may not be worth keeping the old T36 for, I don't know.
My Jbell TH is flat, +- 0.9 dB from 40-100Hz. A 0.9 dB peak at 68 Hz!
It is much louder in front of the speakers than behind them. Very much. Directional bass without cardoids. Wow!
And of course I had to build a pair. When will I ever need both?
Thank you so much for encouraging me to build them. Will post RTA soon compared with T36.
Regards, Ben
Until today I really loved my pair of T36. I was proud of them.
I put a lot of time and effort into building them. The plans cost me money. They needed their own equaliser. By my standards, they go damn low and damn loud.
One of your Tapped horns. Just one of them. A single Jbell tapped horn renders my pair of T36 obsolete. It is louder at 1W @ 1m and at 300W @ 1m. And I can take it up to 450W, as opposed to the lower T36 limit.
The only downsides are the weight and lack of content below 40 Hz. THe low content for dubstep etc. may or may not be worth keeping the old T36 for, I don't know.
My Jbell TH is flat, +- 0.9 dB from 40-100Hz. A 0.9 dB peak at 68 Hz!
It is much louder in front of the speakers than behind them. Very much. Directional bass without cardoids. Wow!
And of course I had to build a pair. When will I ever need both?
Thank you so much for encouraging me to build them. Will post RTA soon compared with T36.
Regards, Ben
Would you be so kind, as to do a 'review' over in the 'other forum' that I am no longer welcome at? It sounds like your take on these and mine line up nicely.
and directional bass.. yep, that's why putting them up in the air, on top of a stadium press box, still gets bass you can feel in the opposing side aluminum bleachers. TH rocks.
and 2? you should have built 4. 114db@20v@10m@40hz sine wave is a treat !!
Hi!
You’re not alone.
Also build two boxes of that Tuba 36, 24” wide.
At the BF forum in past we could see the plots and builders reviewing well it’s performance.
That reviewers should have nothing better to compare and certainly will be impressed by what that cabs play above 100 Hz – makes me remember EV-T18 performance.
What a waste of ply.
See attached links to pictures what I’ve to do with both of them:
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6811/img0991af.jpg
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/3888/img1000a.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3531/img1003as.jpg
Regards,
You’re not alone.
Also build two boxes of that Tuba 36, 24” wide.
At the BF forum in past we could see the plots and builders reviewing well it’s performance.
That reviewers should have nothing better to compare and certainly will be impressed by what that cabs play above 100 Hz – makes me remember EV-T18 performance.
What a waste of ply.
See attached links to pictures what I’ve to do with both of them:
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6811/img0991af.jpg
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/3888/img1000a.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3531/img1003as.jpg
Regards,
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What's next?
Construction of a pair of Jbell TH cabinets means my pair of T36 have started gathering dust...
4 years ago I 'successfully' built a pair of OT 15 to go with the pair of T36. I like their SPL and clarity a lot compared with manufactured cabinets in my price range.
I have the components for 2 more pairs of OT 15. (4 Kappa 15a, all of the wiring and crossover/high/low pass components)
Can anyone recommend a superior design utilising the drivers and parts? I know this is a subwoofer thread, but please bear in mind I would intend to paint the tops the same colour as the Jbell subwoofers (gray/blue)
Or... can the Omnitops be modified - with a Jack-like port, so they can be used for full range for smaller gigs? Or should they be sealed, to improve power handling and avoid feedback? I could have sworn I get more feedback when the Omnitops are toed in so the ports are facing the microphone - however, according to the (you know which) forums, feedback is not caused by the ports facing the mic.
It would be nice to make more of the OT15, maybe some of you already have.
Regards, Ben
Construction of a pair of Jbell TH cabinets means my pair of T36 have started gathering dust...
4 years ago I 'successfully' built a pair of OT 15 to go with the pair of T36. I like their SPL and clarity a lot compared with manufactured cabinets in my price range.
I have the components for 2 more pairs of OT 15. (4 Kappa 15a, all of the wiring and crossover/high/low pass components)
Can anyone recommend a superior design utilising the drivers and parts? I know this is a subwoofer thread, but please bear in mind I would intend to paint the tops the same colour as the Jbell subwoofers (gray/blue)
Or... can the Omnitops be modified - with a Jack-like port, so they can be used for full range for smaller gigs? Or should they be sealed, to improve power handling and avoid feedback? I could have sworn I get more feedback when the Omnitops are toed in so the ports are facing the microphone - however, according to the (you know which) forums, feedback is not caused by the ports facing the mic.
It would be nice to make more of the OT15, maybe some of you already have.
Regards, Ben
ScreamerUSA's Idea
I am aware that ScreamerUSA recommends blocking the ports of the OT.
But as my 4 are not yet built, I thought one of you guys might have something better to recommend before I get started...
If will certainly give the port blocking a go if that is the consensus.
Regards, Ben
I am aware that ScreamerUSA recommends blocking the ports of the OT.
But as my 4 are not yet built, I thought one of you guys might have something better to recommend before I get started...
If will certainly give the port blocking a go if that is the consensus.
Regards, Ben
Getting the most out of these tiny boxes.
Should more output ever be needed, rather than build another two, would it make sense to do what Don suggests:
Hey Jim ... I really like your 3015LF horn (the one I documented for you). It also sims well with the Eminence 4015LF and the
18sound 18TBX100 (if you have a shoe-horn). The 18sound is more expensive, but 4dB louder.
It's an easy cabinet to build, and all flares can be caulked from the mouth.
~Don
Would it merely be a matter of increasing the baffle hole size, or is there more to it?
Regards, Ben
Should more output ever be needed, rather than build another two, would it make sense to do what Don suggests:
Hey Jim ... I really like your 3015LF horn (the one I documented for you). It also sims well with the Eminence 4015LF and the
18sound 18TBX100 (if you have a shoe-horn). The 18sound is more expensive, but 4dB louder.
It's an easy cabinet to build, and all flares can be caulked from the mouth.
~Don
Would it merely be a matter of increasing the baffle hole size, or is there more to it?
Regards, Ben
Ben:
On the 18, I'd leave the baffle hole size alone, and install a plywood 'ring' to keep the cone from slapping wood. Yea,the 18 would be louder in this cabinet if you've got the amp, and the spl need.
On the OT's... DON'T use the side ports -- yes they are feedback creators. If you are going to build OT's, set port tuning to about 95-100hz (you're going to cross them at 100 anyway) and put the ports in front, kinda like in this picture where I was playing with horn lengths.... I've played with ports deep and shallow in the horn face, and prefer the sound with the ports toward the front. Just make sure the port is far enough away from the side wall, or the port length/tuning won't be what you think it should be... One last thing on tops and spl charts and 2pi space. How many times does that top sit on the ground? Kinda makes sense why tops in the 'real world' have issues keeping up in the 100-200hz range, when their chart says they should be good.
Don't keep us in suspense any longer -- we want to see graphs. I never posted any, because I was sure it would look like I had an axe to grind... The bogus spl charts of the T36 STOOD FOR THREE YEARS UNCONTESTED... and every builder who couldn't reproduce those results must have a leak... blah blah blah. yea, like I would be a trustworthy source of testing.... (thanks pasc for the pics... I've roasted some hotdogs over failed cabinets in the past too...)
On the 18, I'd leave the baffle hole size alone, and install a plywood 'ring' to keep the cone from slapping wood. Yea,the 18 would be louder in this cabinet if you've got the amp, and the spl need.
On the OT's... DON'T use the side ports -- yes they are feedback creators. If you are going to build OT's, set port tuning to about 95-100hz (you're going to cross them at 100 anyway) and put the ports in front, kinda like in this picture where I was playing with horn lengths.... I've played with ports deep and shallow in the horn face, and prefer the sound with the ports toward the front. Just make sure the port is far enough away from the side wall, or the port length/tuning won't be what you think it should be... One last thing on tops and spl charts and 2pi space. How many times does that top sit on the ground? Kinda makes sense why tops in the 'real world' have issues keeping up in the 100-200hz range, when their chart says they should be good.
Don't keep us in suspense any longer -- we want to see graphs. I never posted any, because I was sure it would look like I had an axe to grind... The bogus spl charts of the T36 STOOD FOR THREE YEARS UNCONTESTED... and every builder who couldn't reproduce those results must have a leak... blah blah blah. yea, like I would be a trustworthy source of testing.... (thanks pasc for the pics... I've roasted some hotdogs over failed cabinets in the past too...)
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