two magnets
Hi, i took not enough time for testing with only one magnet.
But i think , the more magnets you use the less bass will be reproduced and the better/louder/finer the mid-high`s will get.
it also depends on on the size of the baffle.
If you use a realy big one 170x140cm as me you can go for two or tree magnets.
if you can only work with a small baffle, you`d better use only one magnet to get warm and deep bass-mids.
Ralf
Hi, i took not enough time for testing with only one magnet.
But i think , the more magnets you use the less bass will be reproduced and the better/louder/finer the mid-high`s will get.
it also depends on on the size of the baffle.
If you use a realy big one 170x140cm as me you can go for two or tree magnets.
if you can only work with a small baffle, you`d better use only one magnet to get warm and deep bass-mids.
Ralf
Regarding the addition of magnets, the webpage of spectrumaudio states: "Gesteigerte Auflösung und kleiner Gewinn im Wirkungsgrad und Hochtonpegel." which means something like more detail, and a bit more HF and efficiency.
Especially when the OB is used with an extra bass system, the extra magnet will likely be an improvement...
Ralf could you give us some information about your speakers and system? (photos...?)
Fedde
Especially when the OB is used with an extra bass system, the extra magnet will likely be an improvement...
Ralf could you give us some information about your speakers and system? (photos...?)
Fedde
I use the Ch250 on an OB with 2x18" woofers and a ribbon tweeter . I now use two magnets. The extra magnet is a definate improvment on one in my situation. Sounds clearer. I also own Lowthers. I have no desire at the moment to change drivers. The Ciares are very good indead. I prefer them to Goodmans 301 and other vintage fullrangers that I have tried over many years.They have one problem and that is price. They are far too cheap for the preformance that they deliver. No snob appeal for the audiophools. I like the 10" for OB mids for the more relaxed presentation. I hear no shout or wizzer problems. I have lifted the lows off the Ciare and use it from about 150-10k.
no cam in moment
i havent pic yet.
but in my baffle i use a eminence 15" woofer (beta 15)
and i fire them with JLH update Classe a amp.
A friend of mine has the JLH update - too, and he build the same Gainclone as Peter Daniel, we both tested at each others Hifi -equipment.
we both think, the JLH is something better. - the music is more isolated from the speakers - free in the air. (cant describe in english)
i too had lowthers and AER`s for many years. The Ciare has the advantage of no crying vioices. the Ciare is one of the best speakers i have.
Ralf
i havent pic yet.
but in my baffle i use a eminence 15" woofer (beta 15)
and i fire them with JLH update Classe a amp.
A friend of mine has the JLH update - too, and he build the same Gainclone as Peter Daniel, we both tested at each others Hifi -equipment.
we both think, the JLH is something better. - the music is more isolated from the speakers - free in the air. (cant describe in english)
i too had lowthers and AER`s for many years. The Ciare has the advantage of no crying vioices. the Ciare is one of the best speakers i have.
Ralf
Ciare CH250
I have used the Ciares full range and with the" bottom removed".
IMHO they are great both ways and it is my learning process that I have tried different cross over and filters. I tried notch and band pass type filters with the Lowthers with no sucsess. The filters always sucked the life out of the preformance. So I tried as many other full rangers as I could. Wharfdales Goodmans and listened to old Tannoys on OB.The best was combining two different drivers. For example a bright Wharfdale with a dull Goodmans.The Ciare is just better. Very easy to listen to. All the preformance seems to be there. No hardness, shout or cringe.A zobel helps, and removing the bottom also. However maybe a phase plug and C37 might be better still.
I have written here too about the .5mm Xmax on the Ciares. I have never had a problem at the loudest of levels. I wonder if there is something about a driver with limited Xmax that makes it sound better?All the drivers that I have used with a lot of Xmax are not the best by far..... Just a thought. Its like valves with round plates sound better (and DHT's ).
I have used the Ciares full range and with the" bottom removed".
IMHO they are great both ways and it is my learning process that I have tried different cross over and filters. I tried notch and band pass type filters with the Lowthers with no sucsess. The filters always sucked the life out of the preformance. So I tried as many other full rangers as I could. Wharfdales Goodmans and listened to old Tannoys on OB.The best was combining two different drivers. For example a bright Wharfdale with a dull Goodmans.The Ciare is just better. Very easy to listen to. All the preformance seems to be there. No hardness, shout or cringe.A zobel helps, and removing the bottom also. However maybe a phase plug and C37 might be better still.
I have written here too about the .5mm Xmax on the Ciares. I have never had a problem at the loudest of levels. I wonder if there is something about a driver with limited Xmax that makes it sound better?All the drivers that I have used with a lot of Xmax are not the best by far..... Just a thought. Its like valves with round plates sound better (and DHT's ).
Dimensions of Norberts OB
Hi Marvin,
have a look here:
http://www.audiodiskussion.de/foren/fullrange/msg.php?idx=12487
Rudolf
Hi Marvin,
have a look here:
http://www.audiodiskussion.de/foren/fullrange/msg.php?idx=12487
Rudolf
How easy can speaker building get?
Hi folks,
after all the information I found about the CH250 speaker, I had to try it myself. So I ordered a pair from Spectrumaudio. Total cost 115,50 euro. This weekend I received them, thus it was time to build some test panels...
For the test I use standard 122x61x1,5 cm MDF panels. I didn't even have to saw the panels...
I decided to mount the speakers on the backside of the panels. I cut a hole of 23 cm diameter in the panel (centre at 30 cm from the top and 27 from one side). I used two (L shaped) shelf carriers per panel to keep the panel standing. The shelf carrier is mounted 6 cm higher, so the panel is slighty angled (8-9 degrees). The speaker is mounted with four M6 bolts. It can't get any easier! The whole thing was finished in only a few hours. (though it needs much more work to become visually appealing). The total cost of the project was very low, about 160 euro. Of course, the panels need to be painted yet.
I just finished the second speaker and have a first listen now. My first opinion is that they are very fast&direct, but also very thin and bassless sounding (though it was to be expected that they needed a sub). Also the speakers are certainly not neutral now. Maybe my baffle should be a bit larger. I hope that the speakers will have more bass after burn-in, we'll see...
To be continued...
Fedde
Hi folks,
after all the information I found about the CH250 speaker, I had to try it myself. So I ordered a pair from Spectrumaudio. Total cost 115,50 euro. This weekend I received them, thus it was time to build some test panels...
For the test I use standard 122x61x1,5 cm MDF panels. I didn't even have to saw the panels...
I decided to mount the speakers on the backside of the panels. I cut a hole of 23 cm diameter in the panel (centre at 30 cm from the top and 27 from one side). I used two (L shaped) shelf carriers per panel to keep the panel standing. The shelf carrier is mounted 6 cm higher, so the panel is slighty angled (8-9 degrees). The speaker is mounted with four M6 bolts. It can't get any easier! The whole thing was finished in only a few hours. (though it needs much more work to become visually appealing). The total cost of the project was very low, about 160 euro. Of course, the panels need to be painted yet.
I just finished the second speaker and have a first listen now. My first opinion is that they are very fast&direct, but also very thin and bassless sounding (though it was to be expected that they needed a sub). Also the speakers are certainly not neutral now. Maybe my baffle should be a bit larger. I hope that the speakers will have more bass after burn-in, we'll see...
To be continued...
Fedde
Well done Fedde, you have joined a very good club!
Do you have any way to measure the response of your baffles? I believe that Norbert found his Ciare's OK for bass. Your baffles should be big enough!
As you say, it will be interesting to see how they burn in (and you get used to the OB sound).
Do you have any way to measure the response of your baffles? I believe that Norbert found his Ciare's OK for bass. Your baffles should be big enough!
As you say, it will be interesting to see how they burn in (and you get used to the OB sound).
Now for some more observations after a weekend of listening and burn-in. It seems that the speaker gives a bit more bass now. Still some nastyness in the midrange remains.
The surprise came after some heavy EQ. I pumped up the bass quite a lot and recessed some parts of the midrange. The end result was very good, even though I use a bad EQ from Foobar 2000 that obscures some detail. The midrange is now very smooth, the bass still very tight and punchy, the highs pleasant. (maybe misses a tiny bit of toprange). The position of the speakers in my room is not wide enough yet to give a good impression of the stereo placing capabilities. Though what I hear is quite deep & focused.
On the bad side: you can hear the character of the drivers if the volume is turned up high. Still, they can play very hard. A disadvantage is the EQ needed, but maybe this is less necessary with a good sub. I also hear some midrange probems with some frequencies. I will see what I can do about it. Maybe I have to make the baffle more rigid, 15 mm MDF is not so stiff. I will think about bracing.
All in all I am *very* happy, especially for the price. Maybe I enjoy them even more than my Tannoys SGM-12X at this moment (and two friends preferred them to my Tannoys). (the tannoys are not in 100% condition).
Fedde
The surprise came after some heavy EQ. I pumped up the bass quite a lot and recessed some parts of the midrange. The end result was very good, even though I use a bad EQ from Foobar 2000 that obscures some detail. The midrange is now very smooth, the bass still very tight and punchy, the highs pleasant. (maybe misses a tiny bit of toprange). The position of the speakers in my room is not wide enough yet to give a good impression of the stereo placing capabilities. Though what I hear is quite deep & focused.
On the bad side: you can hear the character of the drivers if the volume is turned up high. Still, they can play very hard. A disadvantage is the EQ needed, but maybe this is less necessary with a good sub. I also hear some midrange probems with some frequencies. I will see what I can do about it. Maybe I have to make the baffle more rigid, 15 mm MDF is not so stiff. I will think about bracing.
All in all I am *very* happy, especially for the price. Maybe I enjoy them even more than my Tannoys SGM-12X at this moment (and two friends preferred them to my Tannoys). (the tannoys are not in 100% condition).
Fedde
)
I did not try more magnets yet. I regret it a bit that I didn't order two extra magnets to try. My Ciare baffles sound quite fine with EQ. The stereo placement is quite good, and overall they are very fast, musical and detailed. They are not completely neutral, though I have the idea they still get more neutral. I would like to ditch the EQ completely as it stands a bit in the way of the soul of the music (and the midrange). The Ciare's sounded very midrangy in the beginning, the sound is now more full. I would like to try them with a fast sub. I am thinking about buying supravox Bicones to compare in the near future.
Greetz,
Fedde
Greetz,
Fedde
Equalizing Ciare
Hello Frends,
after 9 Month of research, mesurements and testing ciare ch250 i wish to tell about my experiences.
1. The ciare needs a subwoofer for the ultra deep frequencies, without the respons will not go under 50Hz
2. If you try to force the ciare with a qualizer foe mor Bass you kill the mids and hights
3. The ciare should be exactly equalized after measuring the frequenciy response at the hearing place.
4. The Subwoofer should be dipole one.
i use 4 of the following dipol subs attac 400, stacked , see here:
http://www.audioelevation.de/frameSet.htm
5. the equalizer should be digital one, otherwise you descent the sound quality.
6. passive notch filters for equalizing will not lead to the best results.
If all this hurdles are taken (and you have the space for this big baffles, you will hardly find a speaker with similar sound qualities.
greets,
Ralf
Hello Frends,
after 9 Month of research, mesurements and testing ciare ch250 i wish to tell about my experiences.
1. The ciare needs a subwoofer for the ultra deep frequencies, without the respons will not go under 50Hz
2. If you try to force the ciare with a qualizer foe mor Bass you kill the mids and hights
3. The ciare should be exactly equalized after measuring the frequenciy response at the hearing place.
4. The Subwoofer should be dipole one.
i use 4 of the following dipol subs attac 400, stacked , see here:
http://www.audioelevation.de/frameSet.htm
5. the equalizer should be digital one, otherwise you descent the sound quality.
6. passive notch filters for equalizing will not lead to the best results.
If all this hurdles are taken (and you have the space for this big baffles, you will hardly find a speaker with similar sound qualities.
greets,
Ralf
Thanks for the interesting feedback Ralf.
I am considering trying the Ciare 250's in place of my modified Goodmans 201's so I read your comments with interest.
WIth the 201's however, I do not find the need for any equalization so that would be an extra project if I get the Ciares.
I have yet to hear dipole subs with open baffle speakers but I can confirm that TL subs work very well if you can live with the larger size! Mine intergrate seamlessly with my OB's!
I am considering trying the Ciare 250's in place of my modified Goodmans 201's so I read your comments with interest.
WIth the 201's however, I do not find the need for any equalization so that would be an extra project if I get the Ciares.
I have yet to hear dipole subs with open baffle speakers but I can confirm that TL subs work very well if you can live with the larger size! Mine intergrate seamlessly with my OB's!
need of ciare EQ
You can use the ciares without equalizing and they sound very good.
But on some CD`s female voices are little bit nervous and have a touch of brightness.
With equalizing all of my CD`s sound very natural an nothing is nervous.
I think there`s a real advantage in using digital parametric equalizing with no sonic losses, because every speaker gets its own sound by interacting with the room-acoustics, even when the speaker himself doesnt make anything wrong...
greets,
Ralf
Nuuk said:Thanks for the interesting feedback Ralf.
I am considering trying the Ciare 250's in place of my modified Goodmans 201's so I read your comments with interest.
WIth the 201's however, I do not find the need for any equalization so that would be an extra project if I get the Ciares.
I have yet to hear dipole subs with open baffle speakers but I can confirm that TL subs work very well if you can live with the larger size! Mine intergrate seamlessly with my OB's!
You can use the ciares without equalizing and they sound very good.
But on some CD`s female voices are little bit nervous and have a touch of brightness.
With equalizing all of my CD`s sound very natural an nothing is nervous.
I think there`s a real advantage in using digital parametric equalizing with no sonic losses, because every speaker gets its own sound by interacting with the room-acoustics, even when the speaker himself doesnt make anything wrong...
greets,
Ralf
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