Sachi and Sachi
Sachi,
Thanx there, seems you got quite a collection. I don't want to go offthread on this so please go to the appropriate thread at http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32030
called "DIY Music with DIY Live Music Gear".
Thanks
Pat
Sachi,
Thanx there, seems you got quite a collection. I don't want to go offthread on this so please go to the appropriate thread at http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32030
called "DIY Music with DIY Live Music Gear".
Thanks
Pat
OK, good to know that the package reached you on schedule..
Tarun. I got back last night/this morning after an uneventful flight back-Lufthansa's direct services to Bangalore are a real boon to us folks here. I have sent you email offlist.
Got some good music(Mingus, Dexter Gordon, Sonny Rollins, etc) when I was in the US and also took in a live jazz show at a good night club in Nashville.
Anyway, it's great to be back home.
George
Tarun. I got back last night/this morning after an uneventful flight back-Lufthansa's direct services to Bangalore are a real boon to us folks here. I have sent you email offlist.
Got some good music(Mingus, Dexter Gordon, Sonny Rollins, etc) when I was in the US and also took in a live jazz show at a good night club in Nashville.
Anyway, it's great to be back home.
George
Knobs arrived
I got the knobs in the mail today.
1 had blemishes , I will use this one myself so that is no point.
I am sending 2 to dealers today.
nice touch is the plastic inserts, I am using them.
Knobs look perfect.
Maybe like some of you said minimalistic
but I for one don't look whistles and bells anyway
they look 'italian design' ....... -> Alessi, or Philipe Stark
J-P
I got the knobs in the mail today.
1 had blemishes , I will use this one myself so that is no point.
I am sending 2 to dealers today.
nice touch is the plastic inserts, I am using them.
Knobs look perfect.
Maybe like some of you said minimalistic
but I for one don't look whistles and bells anyway
they look 'italian design' ....... -> Alessi, or Philipe Stark
J-P
Hmm.................social life !
I've been in DIY audio a long time .
What "social life" ??
OK it's not that bad. The only diff now is that instead of me visiting friends often , they all come to visit me. They also bring (returnable) gifts very often. Their broken down cd players , tape recorders amplifiers etc. All to be fixed for " Thanks a ton ".
Was OK when I was young .......now ........well I am not a service man.
Cheers.
I've been in DIY audio a long time .
What "social life" ??
OK it's not that bad. The only diff now is that instead of me visiting friends often , they all come to visit me. They also bring (returnable) gifts very often. Their broken down cd players , tape recorders amplifiers etc. All to be fixed for " Thanks a ton ".
Was OK when I was young .......now ........well I am not a service man.
Cheers.
In search of the blue-blooded Bourns
I walked the streets of L.Road again a few days back, looking for original Bourns trimpots this time. I'd been told that unreliable trimpots in Vbias settings of power amps can make the OPS blow if the trimpot malfunctions. I'd also been fed a diet of horror stories of how easily cheap trimpots do fail without warning. So here I was...
The Bourns 3296 was what I was looking for. On earlier trips, Visha had sold me some lookalikes which didn't have the word Bourns written on them. So this time I didn't even try Visha. I went to the back alley which leads you to stalwarts like Precious Electronics, and went to Madhu Subtronics, a shop recommended by an industrial electronics friend. I went in.... nice airconditioned shop -- they must be doing well. I inquired. They said they had original Bourns 3296. My friend had said that these would cost me Rs.18 to 20, but this shop gave them to me for Rs.8 to 10. They had "BOURNS" written on them, with the model number (3296W, I think), and in the third line, "Costa Rica".
Having bought them, I decided to see what Precious Electronics had to say about Bourns. These chaps usually deal only with industrial customers, import directly and sell in larger quantities, and (I guess) may not be keen to supply cut-price fakes. (You never know, but it's nice to be able to believe in someone. Especially in L.Road.) So, I spoke to one of the guys in charge in Precious, and they said they import directly, and will sell me a tube of 50 of them if I want. They have them in stock in the values I was looking for (2K and 10K.) He said the price would be about Rs.18 to 20 each. Fifty trimpots is not actually all that large a number, considering that each poweramp channel needs one (I believe the JLH needs three per channel??), each output of each active xo needs one, etc. But Precious didn't want to deal in small quantities. So he referred me to another shop, called Cirkit Electronics, in the "next lane." He instructed me to tell them that I'd been "sent by Precious" and that I should ask for original Bourns. I nodded. I trudged.
At Cirkit, I told them I had been referred to them by Precious, and wanted "original" Bourns, adding deep and mysterious undertones and overtones to the word "original". They said "Sure, here you go" and gave me some pots .... once again for Rs.8 each. I asked them "Are you sure these are original?" and the guy behind the counter exclaimed "Absolutely sure! These are Original Bourns (note his own emphasis on Original this time) made in Mexico. You get some other types occasionally, made in Costa Rica, which are more expensive, but those are almost unavailable nowadays in the Bombay market." I said okay, took the pieces and walked out.
Later I opened the packets and saw the words "Costa Rica" written on the new trimpots just like the ones from Madhu Subtronics. So what was the guy saying about "these are from Mexico, the others are from Costa Rica?" I have no clue. The Cirkit fellow had claimed to be selling me Mexico Bourns and had actually given me Costa Rica Bourns. Also, if I assume that Precious is selling the original stuff at Rs.20 each in full tubes, how can others claim to be selling the same Original Stuff in small quantities for half the price? Again, I find myself bereft of any clues. Clueless, if you like brevity.
Anghu (that's Gooroo Angshoo to you, buster!) says he buys Bourns 3296 in Delhi for about Rs.20 each. Roadkill in B'lore says they're available there (Cee Pee Electronics, I think?) for even higher prices? International resellers seem to be selling their stuff for about two dollars or more each. When mass-produced factory-made items are imported into India and sold in retail q'ties at one-eighth the price at which they retail in the US, my antennae begin to tingle. So, who's being had, and how?
I wish I could just focus on DIY audio instead of int'l fraud detection for heaven's sake. All this really makes me feel like throwing up on L.Road and just ordering from RS India....
SIGHHH....
I walked the streets of L.Road again a few days back, looking for original Bourns trimpots this time. I'd been told that unreliable trimpots in Vbias settings of power amps can make the OPS blow if the trimpot malfunctions. I'd also been fed a diet of horror stories of how easily cheap trimpots do fail without warning. So here I was...
The Bourns 3296 was what I was looking for. On earlier trips, Visha had sold me some lookalikes which didn't have the word Bourns written on them. So this time I didn't even try Visha. I went to the back alley which leads you to stalwarts like Precious Electronics, and went to Madhu Subtronics, a shop recommended by an industrial electronics friend. I went in.... nice airconditioned shop -- they must be doing well. I inquired. They said they had original Bourns 3296. My friend had said that these would cost me Rs.18 to 20, but this shop gave them to me for Rs.8 to 10. They had "BOURNS" written on them, with the model number (3296W, I think), and in the third line, "Costa Rica".
Having bought them, I decided to see what Precious Electronics had to say about Bourns. These chaps usually deal only with industrial customers, import directly and sell in larger quantities, and (I guess) may not be keen to supply cut-price fakes. (You never know, but it's nice to be able to believe in someone. Especially in L.Road.) So, I spoke to one of the guys in charge in Precious, and they said they import directly, and will sell me a tube of 50 of them if I want. They have them in stock in the values I was looking for (2K and 10K.) He said the price would be about Rs.18 to 20 each. Fifty trimpots is not actually all that large a number, considering that each poweramp channel needs one (I believe the JLH needs three per channel??), each output of each active xo needs one, etc. But Precious didn't want to deal in small quantities. So he referred me to another shop, called Cirkit Electronics, in the "next lane." He instructed me to tell them that I'd been "sent by Precious" and that I should ask for original Bourns. I nodded. I trudged.
At Cirkit, I told them I had been referred to them by Precious, and wanted "original" Bourns, adding deep and mysterious undertones and overtones to the word "original". They said "Sure, here you go" and gave me some pots .... once again for Rs.8 each. I asked them "Are you sure these are original?" and the guy behind the counter exclaimed "Absolutely sure! These are Original Bourns (note his own emphasis on Original this time) made in Mexico. You get some other types occasionally, made in Costa Rica, which are more expensive, but those are almost unavailable nowadays in the Bombay market." I said okay, took the pieces and walked out.
Later I opened the packets and saw the words "Costa Rica" written on the new trimpots just like the ones from Madhu Subtronics. So what was the guy saying about "these are from Mexico, the others are from Costa Rica?" I have no clue. The Cirkit fellow had claimed to be selling me Mexico Bourns and had actually given me Costa Rica Bourns. Also, if I assume that Precious is selling the original stuff at Rs.20 each in full tubes, how can others claim to be selling the same Original Stuff in small quantities for half the price? Again, I find myself bereft of any clues. Clueless, if you like brevity.
Anghu (that's Gooroo Angshoo to you, buster!) says he buys Bourns 3296 in Delhi for about Rs.20 each. Roadkill in B'lore says they're available there (Cee Pee Electronics, I think?) for even higher prices? International resellers seem to be selling their stuff for about two dollars or more each. When mass-produced factory-made items are imported into India and sold in retail q'ties at one-eighth the price at which they retail in the US, my antennae begin to tingle. So, who's being had, and how?
I wish I could just focus on DIY audio instead of int'l fraud detection for heaven's sake. All this really makes me feel like throwing up on L.Road and just ordering from RS India....
SIGHHH....
Neutrik Speakons
There's a guy who resells (what appears to be) original Neutrik plugs/sockets in sealed original-looking plastic packets. I'd written about him a few months ago, when talking about Neutrik RCA male plugs --- they have them in nickel and gold plated versions.
On my last walk through those streets, I saw Speakons in his shop window. He had panel mounted 4-core sockets and cable-mounted plugs. All in sealed plastic packets with Neutrik written on them, etc. Very well-made stuff --- you can really believe that these are designed for the rigours of touring stage gig use. The cable-mounted plug had screw-type terminals for connecting the conductors, and a separate cable grip to relieve strain on the conductors. The guy also had a printed price list which he pulled out when quoting his prices. And, wonder of wonders on L.Road, he also gave me a cash memo without me asking for it!
The shop is called Associated Electronics and is on the main L.Road, on the ground floor of the same building which has Visha on the first floor. Phone: +91 22 2382 0329/ 2388 8298. Email: astronics at vsnl dot com. They seem to deal only in cables, wires, and connectors of all kinds.
One 4-core socket costs Rs.88; one cable-mounted plug costs Rs.266. I've decided that these will make great high-current connectors if I'm building a luxury project someday. For the rest of my needs, I'll just use XLR plugs and sockets. Those should carry 10A without problems, and have the Speakon advantage of locking fit. MX XLR female sockets are Rs.25 each; cable-mounted plugs are Rs.20 each. Good enough for me for now. And what's even more interesting... MX has Speakon replicas. I didn't actually try them out to see whether they'd interoperate with the original Neutrik ones, but they're a lot less expensive. The socket and plug both cost Rs.80 or so each. Available at our friendly neighbourhood MX outlet: Champion Rubber Stores.
There's a guy who resells (what appears to be) original Neutrik plugs/sockets in sealed original-looking plastic packets. I'd written about him a few months ago, when talking about Neutrik RCA male plugs --- they have them in nickel and gold plated versions.
On my last walk through those streets, I saw Speakons in his shop window. He had panel mounted 4-core sockets and cable-mounted plugs. All in sealed plastic packets with Neutrik written on them, etc. Very well-made stuff --- you can really believe that these are designed for the rigours of touring stage gig use. The cable-mounted plug had screw-type terminals for connecting the conductors, and a separate cable grip to relieve strain on the conductors. The guy also had a printed price list which he pulled out when quoting his prices. And, wonder of wonders on L.Road, he also gave me a cash memo without me asking for it!
The shop is called Associated Electronics and is on the main L.Road, on the ground floor of the same building which has Visha on the first floor. Phone: +91 22 2382 0329/ 2388 8298. Email: astronics at vsnl dot com. They seem to deal only in cables, wires, and connectors of all kinds.
One 4-core socket costs Rs.88; one cable-mounted plug costs Rs.266. I've decided that these will make great high-current connectors if I'm building a luxury project someday. For the rest of my needs, I'll just use XLR plugs and sockets. Those should carry 10A without problems, and have the Speakon advantage of locking fit. MX XLR female sockets are Rs.25 each; cable-mounted plugs are Rs.20 each. Good enough for me for now. And what's even more interesting... MX has Speakon replicas. I didn't actually try them out to see whether they'd interoperate with the original Neutrik ones, but they're a lot less expensive. The socket and plug both cost Rs.80 or so each. Available at our friendly neighbourhood MX outlet: Champion Rubber Stores.
Tarun, for what it's worth, the Bourns pots I bought are also made in Costa Rica... anyway none of them have failed so far (remember they have a rated lifespan of only 200 turns), and I've used them all over the place. However, I've used model 3006 more often than 3296. Other makes available here include O/E/N, Spectrol and Vishay. All are good brands, and they all cost about the same. I doubt anyone will take the trouble of faking them all.
About the lower prices, perhaps they are off-tolerance or from a more unreliable batch from the factory. Face it, most of the stuff we get on L road (or SP road) are of this kind, even if the shops get them straight from the manufacturers.
As for the OP transistors blowing due to open bias adjust pots, Doug Self has written about it in his book, and by a simple rearrangement, you can guarantee that if the pot opens up, it will only cause the bias to fall to zero. I don't remember the details, if someone could fill me in, please do.
Tarun, if you like, I can send you some Bourns pots of your spec (but remeber that the ones you get here are also made in Costa Rica!) I guess you could send back something which I can't buy over here in return. Mail me if you're interested.
About the lower prices, perhaps they are off-tolerance or from a more unreliable batch from the factory. Face it, most of the stuff we get on L road (or SP road) are of this kind, even if the shops get them straight from the manufacturers.
As for the OP transistors blowing due to open bias adjust pots, Doug Self has written about it in his book, and by a simple rearrangement, you can guarantee that if the pot opens up, it will only cause the bias to fall to zero. I don't remember the details, if someone could fill me in, please do.
Tarun, if you like, I can send you some Bourns pots of your spec (but remeber that the ones you get here are also made in Costa Rica!) I guess you could send back something which I can't buy over here in return. Mail me if you're interested.
Safe Bias connection.
The circuit attached is fail safe. If the pot opens up the the voltage across the transistor will drop to its saturation voltage.
Here the values of the resistors will give you 1.2 volts bias with the pot approx at mid position. For 2.4 volts you can increase R1 to 1.5K . You can scale the values to whatever you want.
Cheers.
The circuit attached is fail safe. If the pot opens up the the voltage across the transistor will drop to its saturation voltage.
Here the values of the resistors will give you 1.2 volts bias with the pot approx at mid position. For 2.4 volts you can increase R1 to 1.5K . You can scale the values to whatever you want.
Cheers.
Attachments
Hi Roadkill,
Saw this thread only today after a gap.
But your comments make me a bit more comfortable.
But if there's anything you want, just let me know and I'll send it over. I can be trusted; ask George (gjo)
Saw this thread only today after a gap.
Good to hear from you about this. I have decided that I've had enough of hunting down counterfeiters and the like, and I'll just use whatever best I could get and BSL!roadkill said:
But your comments make me a bit more comfortable.I see what you mean, but Far Eastern fakes are a real large-scale industry. They might actually be faking them all, in very large numbers too, and pushing them into the same Far Eastern electronics assembly lines.
Oh yes. Totally true. This is when you realise you live in a third world country... a market where the only driving factor is price, almost never quality. Even if I want to pay a premium for good stuff, no one is around to sell.
Nice offer, thanks a lot. As far as the trimmers go, I've decided to use the "local Bourns".
But if there's anything you want, just let me know and I'll send it over. I can be trusted; ask George (gjo)
Not quite what I meant. What folks from other countries call places like SP road shops are "surplus" shops. What you get is by definition there because there was either something wrong with it or because someone ordered too many for a given production run and had to "dispose" of them. Art of Electronics cautions strongly about the quality of components from surplus lines.
Anyway, for me all this is an exercise in Engineering: achieving a goal with whatever limited components we can lay our hands on. Which is probably why you'll find my 8" Bolton sub powered by a bridged P3A built using what are quite plainly fake 2SA1302/2SC3281 transistors. I may as well have used 2N2955/2N3055s, but these give me better heatsinking and are easier to mount. Not failed yet... (touchwood) The only really good quality components I'm sure I have are my LM3886s, sent as samples from NS.
Re: Neutrik Speakons
They also do cross country deliveries. I know that for a fact, Patrick (Pugh) has ordered. He must've got them by now. He paid by DD.
The Neutriks are worth every penny. Ampheons are a-ok, but I'm more a fan of the Neutriks - the fit and finish is a little better, and the XLRs are easier to disconnect. The ampheons are a bit of a struggle. Both are very expensive compared to the MXs - I paid about 250 bucks for a pair of XLRs.
His microphone cable is exceptionally low noise and low-loss. I'm using very long runs (>30 ft. per side) for line and mic level signals and see very little degradation, if any at all. It's rubber-jacketed, not the cheap PVC, and resists heavy stage use superbly. It's no Belden, but it ain't too bad.
He also has heatshrink tubing. And no, he does not pay me commission.
tcpip said:
They also do cross country deliveries. I know that for a fact, Patrick (Pugh) has ordered. He must've got them by now. He paid by DD.
The Neutriks are worth every penny. Ampheons are a-ok, but I'm more a fan of the Neutriks - the fit and finish is a little better, and the XLRs are easier to disconnect. The ampheons are a bit of a struggle. Both are very expensive compared to the MXs - I paid about 250 bucks for a pair of XLRs.
His microphone cable is exceptionally low noise and low-loss. I'm using very long runs (>30 ft. per side) for line and mic level signals and see very little degradation, if any at all. It's rubber-jacketed, not the cheap PVC, and resists heavy stage use superbly. It's no Belden, but it ain't too bad.
He also has heatshrink tubing. And no, he does not pay me commission.
I agree. But nevertheless, the "third-worldness" of our market is evident in the fact that no one in L.Road (or SP Road, I presume) will tell you that they're picking up surplus stocks. In the more developed markets, surplus dealers say they're surplus dealers, and both first-cut items and surplus items sell side by side, at different price points through different outlets. The customer can choose. We in India don't even get honest information, let alone choice.roadkill said:
I like your attitude. I strongly feel the same way, and that's one reason I respect Angshu so much.... he was faced with the choice of pathetic speaker drivers in India and he decided to build his own skills at selection, measurement, and adaptation to get first-class results. If he was in the US, he would probably be beating the Wayne J's of that world hollow.
Reminds me of one of my favourite lines from movies, this one from The Shawshank Redemption: "You can get busy living, or you can get busy dying."
There can be many reasons, a few could be :
1. Everyone started really working ..( earning a living !)
2. Everyone has had his or her say on the matter.
3. More interesting topics cropped up.
4. Everyone has picked up the parts discussed in the thread.
5. Parts quality or cost killed all further interest ..
6. The thread petered away normally like all other normal threads.
Until someone
'ed it again .. to life !Cheers.
PCB for P3A.
hey guys,
glad to see that this thread has been given a new lease of life.
i'm looking for the PCB of Rod Elliot's P3A amp.
if u can post or mail me the gerber files i would really appreciate it. also i'm looking for a preamp circuit and its Pcb .
Sachi
p.s:BTW i had actually been to the bangalore meeting. it was so crowded that i could not even make anyone out. i had never seen any of ur chaps and i did not even have ur mobile numbers. i went back disappionted to say the least. however, will be looking forward for the next meet.
hey guys,
glad to see that this thread has been given a new lease of life.
i'm looking for the PCB of Rod Elliot's P3A amp.
if u can post or mail me the gerber files i would really appreciate it. also i'm looking for a preamp circuit and its Pcb .
Sachi
p.s:BTW i had actually been to the bangalore meeting. it was so crowded that i could not even make anyone out. i had never seen any of ur chaps and i did not even have ur mobile numbers. i went back disappionted to say the least. however, will be looking forward for the next meet.
ok just to give you guys a heads up these are the following audio projects i am up to....not all are moving fast...but it will give you an idea into the directions i am heading.
1. JX92S based wide range speaker (100Hz+) either sealed or MLTL either wall mounted or a small tubular tower or both (MLTL tower for front, sealed boxes for center and rear). to be driven by Marantz SR7000
2. EL84 PPP based amp derived from parts given to me by corbato many moons ago. this amp will drive my SS9900 tweeters
3. Midbass (SS 8546) for above in push pull bass reflex or push pull TL driven by 200W SS (amp done).
4. evaluating Fostex FE108 v/s FX120 for fullrange speaker to be used with mini component lifestyle system.
any help, advice and/or opinions will be much appreciated.
1. JX92S based wide range speaker (100Hz+) either sealed or MLTL either wall mounted or a small tubular tower or both (MLTL tower for front, sealed boxes for center and rear). to be driven by Marantz SR7000
2. EL84 PPP based amp derived from parts given to me by corbato many moons ago. this amp will drive my SS9900 tweeters
3. Midbass (SS 8546) for above in push pull bass reflex or push pull TL driven by 200W SS (amp done).
4. evaluating Fostex FE108 v/s FX120 for fullrange speaker to be used with mini component lifestyle system.
any help, advice and/or opinions will be much appreciated.
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