FP-new series Switching Power Amplifier
These are the clones, at 1/10 the price I can get a few spares and some forums indicate that they have ironed out most of the issues with reliability and doa. The company seams fast to respond, fast delivery and send heaps of spare parts if things go wrong. Also noone seams to be able to tell the sonic difference at all.
These are the clones, at 1/10 the price I can get a few spares and some forums indicate that they have ironed out most of the issues with reliability and doa. The company seams fast to respond, fast delivery and send heaps of spare parts if things go wrong. Also noone seams to be able to tell the sonic difference at all.
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Yah was on Not's thread from the beginning about the clones. Some turned out great and some not so lucky. Also Bosso has used a bunch of them before Not did to test them. Still hit or miss even with the new spec'd ones. I have bought many things from Sanways to try and save a dollar for my HT. I just trust the big manufacturers more when it comes to reliability. BUT to each their own.
Either way if you are considering the Othorn there are still some options if you act soon.
Either way if you are considering the Othorn there are still some options if you act soon.
Well I dont have the capital to make use of the sale unfortunatlely but I will call Krix again...
I would never trust a clone but considering my second option of Crown, they seam to have many problems and arent as sonicaly good. Crest or qsc are higher end options but still two channel making the 4ch clone even more economical. considering the clones work out about 1/10 the price I would be happy to order them with some spares and fix any issues before the install. The risk though is having them break down after install and possibly damaging the cabs in the process.
I'm now thinking of using these as tops, they are clones but sound significantly better then the srx stuff.
BOB AUDIO PASSIONATA
I would never trust a clone but considering my second option of Crown, they seam to have many problems and arent as sonicaly good. Crest or qsc are higher end options but still two channel making the 4ch clone even more economical. considering the clones work out about 1/10 the price I would be happy to order them with some spares and fix any issues before the install. The risk though is having them break down after install and possibly damaging the cabs in the process.
I'm now thinking of using these as tops, they are clones but sound significantly better then the srx stuff.
BOB AUDIO PASSIONATA
Did you hear these speakers in a install nearby?
I have never had a Crown fail on me before but I am sure there are plenty out there that have. Just depends on your power needs. Then you can select which amp you need. For less than the Crown I-tech or LG/Powersoft price you could use a PKN 6000 amplifier or QSC PL380 for your subs.
But are you doing this for a "friend?"
Trying to understand how your going about this. If I worked at a sound install company I would suggest the LG's, Powersoft or PKN's. But if this was a friend I would suggest using a Peavey IPR2 7500 or other Crest amp.
I have never had a Crown fail on me before but I am sure there are plenty out there that have. Just depends on your power needs. Then you can select which amp you need. For less than the Crown I-tech or LG/Powersoft price you could use a PKN 6000 amplifier or QSC PL380 for your subs.
But are you doing this for a "friend?"
Trying to understand how your going about this. If I worked at a sound install company I would suggest the LG's, Powersoft or PKN's. But if this was a friend I would suggest using a Peavey IPR2 7500 or other Crest amp.
I have not heard these but they have been highly recommended and are very cost effective. Given my current location I would not be able to demo even brand name gear or really anything that would suite high spl install. I will take a look at PKN.
Its not for a friend but I do work as a DJ at the venue and hope to be put on a maintenance contract for sound/lighting. I have just finnished a degree in sound production but TBH it is fairly useless for this kind of work, I am a bit of a tech head and love the equipment side of sound and lighting and hope to make a career in it and this is a big step. I have a good ammout of experience but never anything on this scale.
I can totally see that I could be stabbing myself in the foot as far as the amps are concerned but alternatives bring the budget up a heap. The venue does not have much money to play arround with and I'm not sure if they will go for it. However they currently hire just the sound equipment at $90k per year which seams silly given its worth less than what they pay in a year. The venue doesnt like investing in the future though. Theres also noone here that could do an install except for the people they are currently hiring from. I will be having a meeting with the mannagers this friday to discuss the options so I will break things down and give them options like clones etc, but also explain the risks. The meeting will only be more a discussion of posibilities rather than me giving them a few quotes as there are so many things that need to be worked out first. The venue will be buying the equipment themselves (subs from me If i build them). So yeah, thats the situation ATM.
Its not for a friend but I do work as a DJ at the venue and hope to be put on a maintenance contract for sound/lighting. I have just finnished a degree in sound production but TBH it is fairly useless for this kind of work, I am a bit of a tech head and love the equipment side of sound and lighting and hope to make a career in it and this is a big step. I have a good ammout of experience but never anything on this scale.
I can totally see that I could be stabbing myself in the foot as far as the amps are concerned but alternatives bring the budget up a heap. The venue does not have much money to play arround with and I'm not sure if they will go for it. However they currently hire just the sound equipment at $90k per year which seams silly given its worth less than what they pay in a year. The venue doesnt like investing in the future though. Theres also noone here that could do an install except for the people they are currently hiring from. I will be having a meeting with the mannagers this friday to discuss the options so I will break things down and give them options like clones etc, but also explain the risks. The meeting will only be more a discussion of posibilities rather than me giving them a few quotes as there are so many things that need to be worked out first. The venue will be buying the equipment themselves (subs from me If i build them). So yeah, thats the situation ATM.
So not a friend or random client but somewhere in between.
Also being remote I'm relying on the net to source equipment and usually suppliers don't mention their gear on the net. I'm not used to sourcing this kind of higher end gear either so I'm stumbling around a bit, apart from a few known good suppliers (who's offerings are limited).
Also being remote I'm relying on the net to source equipment and usually suppliers don't mention their gear on the net. I'm not used to sourcing this kind of higher end gear either so I'm stumbling around a bit, apart from a few known good suppliers (who's offerings are limited).
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If you are specing out gear for a 50k install, then you should have capital to purchase the 21sw150 (or you should have your client do so immediately).
Just know, by choosing to go with the clones (regardless of whether or not they are *actually* reliable), you are opening up a door that could basically make this your first/last install. You could do the install, walk out with some money, and have everything be fine. OR, the venue could suffer an equipment failure at an inopportune time, and the only thing they will see is "we paid 50k for this, and we have chinese clones that failed on us. Something like that will follow you for a while.
Granted, even if you go Crown/qsc/LG, theres still the chance of a failure (and that will still negatively affect your rep), but you literally did all you could.
Just know, by choosing to go with the clones (regardless of whether or not they are *actually* reliable), you are opening up a door that could basically make this your first/last install. You could do the install, walk out with some money, and have everything be fine. OR, the venue could suffer an equipment failure at an inopportune time, and the only thing they will see is "we paid 50k for this, and we have chinese clones that failed on us. Something like that will follow you for a while.
Granted, even if you go Crown/qsc/LG, theres still the chance of a failure (and that will still negatively affect your rep), but you literally did all you could.
The Nexo PS15 dispersion is an excellent choice for a single cabinet, going from 90 degrees in the near field to 50 degrees in the far field.
Using multiples of that cabinet will ruin the pattern control, unless you happen to need the 360 degree coverage that four per side could do.
Subs make a difference of course, but few people leave a concert whistling the bass line, getting the top end right is important.
To get even, high quality sound requires speakers designed to be arrayed together to cover the listening area.
If the venue is playback only, you can get away with less even upper response, but for live use any experienced tech will be very dissatisfied with multiple wide dispersion boxes covering the same area.
Back to sub response, I equalize the Keystone flat, the upper response sensitivity gives more headroom in the frequency range that requires it.
Having previously used cabinets with a response tilted the opposite direction, I found the upward frequency response tilt works better for most types of music.
Also, in large arrays the upper response tends to be less as the horn mouths no longer are within 1/4 wavelength of each other.
As far as the comparison to the JBL SRX 728, as Sine 143 points out, the sensitivity is similar, but having recently heard a system with a pair of 728 per side, I can say that one Keystone with a BC18SW115 or a BC18TBW100 would equal the LF output, and have more upper "punch".
Art
Thanks for everyone's input. I will be looking for non clone amps and will be avoiding the clones if I can.
I would easily prefer a large synergy horn per side but so far it would be way too expensive.
Weltersys, due to most normal stackable speakers having wider dispersion patters are you suggesting using line array type speaker? I'm not sure if I can see a way around this. I could possibly see the use of line array boxes but used horizontally ontop of the subs in the same way I would use the others mentioned, yet better dispersion.
I would easily prefer a large synergy horn per side but so far it would be way too expensive.
Weltersys, due to most normal stackable speakers having wider dispersion patters are you suggesting using line array type speaker? I'm not sure if I can see a way around this. I could possibly see the use of line array boxes but used horizontally ontop of the subs in the same way I would use the others mentioned, yet better dispersion.
Im not directly recomending against the clones. I know of at least 2 pro sound installers here in the states who use similar (different oem) amps for their installs. But they also have 100+ installs under ther belt, their reputation is much safer.
Word of advice, when soeaking to a potential client, try not to promise them both "twice as good" (or more than that) at the same tine you promise them half the price (50k vs 90k).
If you are shooting for a lower budget, tell them you will match and aim to outdo their previous setup, but will in no way step down quality for sake of budget (thus when your final system is much better than the previous setup, your cluent will be very satisfied, and recomen you to their peers).
If you aim to promise them a "much better" system, aim for a budget similar to the first system (90k). Clients dont like to be shown the gravity of their stupidity (ie why did you spend 90k when i can give you a system 5x a good for 50k). Most people subscribe to the "you get wh you pay for" mentality, and if you want to sell them on a considerable upgrade, it can actually be easier if you dont lower the price tag (plus it gives you considerably more money to work with, making it that much easierto achieve the wow factor you are goin for).
Word of advice, when soeaking to a potential client, try not to promise them both "twice as good" (or more than that) at the same tine you promise them half the price (50k vs 90k).
If you are shooting for a lower budget, tell them you will match and aim to outdo their previous setup, but will in no way step down quality for sake of budget (thus when your final system is much better than the previous setup, your cluent will be very satisfied, and recomen you to their peers).
If you aim to promise them a "much better" system, aim for a budget similar to the first system (90k). Clients dont like to be shown the gravity of their stupidity (ie why did you spend 90k when i can give you a system 5x a good for 50k). Most people subscribe to the "you get wh you pay for" mentality, and if you want to sell them on a considerable upgrade, it can actually be easier if you dont lower the price tag (plus it gives you considerably more money to work with, making it that much easierto achieve the wow factor you are goin for).
Very sound and sensible advice there. It totally makes sence and I will do just that.
I still need to factor in a lighting system as well, the $90k per year system does include lighting but its terrible and at very most worth $10k. Its almost like they shouldn't bother with the lighting.
All up I was shooting for 70-90k including lights, towards 90k if weatherproofing is included in that.
TBH I'm not sure what the venues budgeting will be, again I hope to find out at the meeting but as Sine says I want to at least meet the same level of quality system, hopefully much more though.
Their current system, from memory is at least 8X srx728 subs with some terrible ancient horn tops that die all the time. Amps are high end labs and there's quite a few. Included in this price would be foldbacks, DJ setup, lighting and possibly a bit of staging/trussing and all the little stuff but that hasn't been confirmed (part of what the meeting is for). In all it was just a guess at what its worth NEW here in Aus.
I will likely go with clone speakers but I would like to avoid clone amps for obvious reasons.
I still need to factor in a lighting system as well, the $90k per year system does include lighting but its terrible and at very most worth $10k. Its almost like they shouldn't bother with the lighting.
All up I was shooting for 70-90k including lights, towards 90k if weatherproofing is included in that.
TBH I'm not sure what the venues budgeting will be, again I hope to find out at the meeting but as Sine says I want to at least meet the same level of quality system, hopefully much more though.
Their current system, from memory is at least 8X srx728 subs with some terrible ancient horn tops that die all the time. Amps are high end labs and there's quite a few. Included in this price would be foldbacks, DJ setup, lighting and possibly a bit of staging/trussing and all the little stuff but that hasn't been confirmed (part of what the meeting is for). In all it was just a guess at what its worth NEW here in Aus.
I will likely go with clone speakers but I would like to avoid clone amps for obvious reasons.
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"similar (different oem) amps" could you elaborate on what they are. I have also spoken to a guy who's friend does similar and hasn't had too many issues (but didn't know what OEM). From what I gather the sunway clones have a fairly high DOA rate, in the double digits. I would easily pay up to double to have a reliable clone for the mobile business (closer to crown reliability).
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