i can only spen $700-800 per amp....
unfortionaly i can only spend 700-800 dallars per amp.....
they have to be atleast 400w constant output.....
i need 5 of these suckers to drive my speakers.....
i say a really nice yorkville amp...the CR12 amp.....
it has the watt ratings i need to drive my speakers.....
i could not find a MSRP though......
i gues sence you guys suggested yorkville that the are much better then crown......
how much are they.....?
what about these amps the CR12? are they any good?
would they be better then the crown ce2000?
thanks,
Slice
unfortionaly i can only spend 700-800 dallars per amp.....
they have to be atleast 400w constant output.....
i need 5 of these suckers to drive my speakers.....
i say a really nice yorkville amp...the CR12 amp.....
it has the watt ratings i need to drive my speakers.....
i could not find a MSRP though......
i gues sence you guys suggested yorkville that the are much better then crown......
how much are they.....?
what about these amps the CR12? are they any good?
would they be better then the crown ce2000?
thanks,
Slice
Grrrrrrr.....
Hey slicemaster101,
Step 1 - read the previous posts PROPERLY - nobody suggested Yorkville amplifiers.
Self powered cabinets were suggested.
Step 2 - Start acknowledging the guys who are posting replies to you.
Step 3 - Act on the suggestions given, and then come back.
I'm starting to understand how some others here feel and why some abrasive replies get posted !.
Eric.
Hey slicemaster101,
Step 1 - read the previous posts PROPERLY - nobody suggested Yorkville amplifiers.
Self powered cabinets were suggested.
Step 2 - Start acknowledging the guys who are posting replies to you.
Step 3 - Act on the suggestions given, and then come back.
I'm starting to understand how some others here feel and why some abrasive replies get posted !.
Eric.
i relly dont like you....
mrfeedback i realy dont like you......
i gues i must be perfict in every thing i do....god forbid i mis interpit a few sugestions or opinions....
i am trying here and this is all very new grounds to me....
i am trying to lern but it is realy hard....
i am sorry i upset some of you but i am realy nieve when it comes to this stuff.
i hope noone has got the weong idea about me.....if so i am sorry but i will not take full blame for everything......
well i have decided to change amps under the advise of everyone.....i think
i am leaning tward a amp that is highly suggested for cinima use....
namely the QSC MX2000a....what you guys think?
it is a little over my range but i can work them into the buget.....
is it any better then the crown?
and one last thing.....this does not apply to anyone but mrfeedback....
i admit i have mad some interpitation mistakes.....but shut the F@%k up inless you have something useful coming out of your mouth......i don't come here to be critisized! i realy dont care what you think of me or my opionions or the lack there of......
but realy i come to lern and thats what i intend to do!
so inless you have something good to say mrfeedback just shut the F%&k up and stay to your self.......
i am 17 and i want to lern and grow...not be smashed down by B%&chs like you.....
so if you feel we got off on the wrong foot please apolagise and you will get one in return.....ok........
mrfeedback i realy dont like you......
i gues i must be perfict in every thing i do....god forbid i mis interpit a few sugestions or opinions....
i am trying here and this is all very new grounds to me....
i am trying to lern but it is realy hard....
i am sorry i upset some of you but i am realy nieve when it comes to this stuff.
i hope noone has got the weong idea about me.....if so i am sorry but i will not take full blame for everything......
well i have decided to change amps under the advise of everyone.....i think
i am leaning tward a amp that is highly suggested for cinima use....
namely the QSC MX2000a....what you guys think?
it is a little over my range but i can work them into the buget.....
is it any better then the crown?
and one last thing.....this does not apply to anyone but mrfeedback....
i admit i have mad some interpitation mistakes.....but shut the F@%k up inless you have something useful coming out of your mouth......i don't come here to be critisized! i realy dont care what you think of me or my opionions or the lack there of......
but realy i come to lern and thats what i intend to do!
so inless you have something good to say mrfeedback just shut the F%&k up and stay to your self.......
i am 17 and i want to lern and grow...not be smashed down by B%&chs like you.....
so if you feel we got off on the wrong foot please apolagise and you will get one in return.....ok........
Re: i relly dont like you....
The 1st thing you need to learn is to let go of the spec sheets. The numbers that the Crown has are almost next to useless when it comes to the real world.
Next you have to realize it is a system. Speakers & amp(s). One does not exist without the other.
To learn you have to listen. To know what to say we have to ask questions to find out what to say & suggest. You stubbornly resist any thot of not having a crown with 200 w. There are better ways to get where you want, but you have to listen, think & have an open mind.
If you want help, answer the questions & co-operate. You will get lots of suggestions. And the suggestions will generate more suggestions. No one of them is best, everyone is a compromise. You pick the best one -- but you have to be flexible.
BTW. planet_10 has owned a number of Crowns and listened to many more. There is a lot more bang for the buck out there. They won't have as high a rated power, but they well play louder, better. They won't have as low measured distortion, but they will sound cleaner.
Take this example: we want big. So lets build a WMTMW (or even a WWMTMWW -- woofers in push-push front & back). XOs at 250 & 5k (i have some drivers in mind). I'll use 5 of
these (3 or 4 might actually be enuff) in a tri-amp set-up and you use the crown. Mine will sound better & play louder. Mine will cost less, but be more work. But you could do the same thing with a couple off-the-shelf 50W amps and bi-amp & still be ahead.
And if you want to play loud you are better to start with efficient loudspeakers & use small amps.
The surround amps don't need to be as big as the mains... and if you are budget strapped* then you should start with 5.1 channels -- quality before quantity.
*(and it can't be too constrained if you can afford that many Crowns -- for that much money you could buy one of the new Linn DVD Classics with AM/FM/DVD player/ Decoder & 5 channels of power that will chew up & spit out the crowns).
dave
slicemaster101 said:
The 1st thing you need to learn is to let go of the spec sheets. The numbers that the Crown has are almost next to useless when it comes to the real world.
Next you have to realize it is a system. Speakers & amp(s). One does not exist without the other.
To learn you have to listen. To know what to say we have to ask questions to find out what to say & suggest. You stubbornly resist any thot of not having a crown with 200 w. There are better ways to get where you want, but you have to listen, think & have an open mind.
If you want help, answer the questions & co-operate. You will get lots of suggestions. And the suggestions will generate more suggestions. No one of them is best, everyone is a compromise. You pick the best one -- but you have to be flexible.
BTW. planet_10 has owned a number of Crowns and listened to many more. There is a lot more bang for the buck out there. They won't have as high a rated power, but they well play louder, better. They won't have as low measured distortion, but they will sound cleaner.
Take this example: we want big. So lets build a WMTMW (or even a WWMTMWW -- woofers in push-push front & back). XOs at 250 & 5k (i have some drivers in mind). I'll use 5 of
these (3 or 4 might actually be enuff) in a tri-amp set-up and you use the crown. Mine will sound better & play louder. Mine will cost less, but be more work. But you could do the same thing with a couple off-the-shelf 50W amps and bi-amp & still be ahead.
And if you want to play loud you are better to start with efficient loudspeakers & use small amps.
The surround amps don't need to be as big as the mains... and if you are budget strapped* then you should start with 5.1 channels -- quality before quantity.
*(and it can't be too constrained if you can afford that many Crowns -- for that much money you could buy one of the new Linn DVD Classics with AM/FM/DVD player/ Decoder & 5 channels of power that will chew up & spit out the crowns).
dave
Step 5 - Give up the drugs - you are not mature enough to handle them.
Step 5 - Go to literacy school or get a spell checker.
Step 6 - Learn to respect your elders for they have much to give.
Step 7 - Start to act your age, not your shoe size.
Step 8 - Consult a professional psychiatrist in order to resolve your insecurity problems - this would be money much better spent than on any audio system.
Step 9 -
"i am trying to lern but it is realy hard.... "
- The medical term is frontal lobe damage.
"i am sorry i upset some of you but i am realy nieve when it comes to this stuff"
- you are quite naive about most things.
"i hope noone has got the weong idea about me"
- After that outburst I would say that we ALL have a PERFECT understanding of you.
"if so i am sorry but i will not take full blame for everything...... "
- See Step 8
"is it any better then the crown?"
- I don't thik that any of us can be bothered to answer any of your questions
"i realy dont care what you think of me or my opionions or the lack there of......
- I expect that is universally reciprocal.
"i am 17 and i want to lern and grow..."
- The first step in therapy is to recognise the problem.
"so if you feel we got off on the wrong foot...."
- You have the whole forum community on the wrong foot.
"please apolagise and you will get one in return.....ok........"
- No, it is not Ok, and not the merest chance - I would not even sell you my snot.
Now that you have totally alienated yourself, best you disappear
to some other forum where you may be welcome, but that is not here.
Eric.
Step 5 - Go to literacy school or get a spell checker.
Step 6 - Learn to respect your elders for they have much to give.
Step 7 - Start to act your age, not your shoe size.
Step 8 - Consult a professional psychiatrist in order to resolve your insecurity problems - this would be money much better spent than on any audio system.
Step 9 -
"i am trying to lern but it is realy hard.... "
- The medical term is frontal lobe damage.
"i am sorry i upset some of you but i am realy nieve when it comes to this stuff"
- you are quite naive about most things.
"i hope noone has got the weong idea about me"
- After that outburst I would say that we ALL have a PERFECT understanding of you.
"if so i am sorry but i will not take full blame for everything...... "
- See Step 8
"is it any better then the crown?"
- I don't thik that any of us can be bothered to answer any of your questions
"i realy dont care what you think of me or my opionions or the lack there of......
- I expect that is universally reciprocal.
"i am 17 and i want to lern and grow..."
- The first step in therapy is to recognise the problem.
"so if you feel we got off on the wrong foot...."
- You have the whole forum community on the wrong foot.
"please apolagise and you will get one in return.....ok........"
- No, it is not Ok, and not the merest chance - I would not even sell you my snot.
Now that you have totally alienated yourself, best you disappear
to some other forum where you may be welcome, but that is not here.
Eric.
This has been most entertaining. Slice....one thing I want to point out is that loud is loud is loud. If you want to play something at 120 decibles it does not matter if you are using a 10 watt amp with 100 db/1w/1m speakers or a 400 watt amp using 85 db/1w/1m. More efficiency in the speaker means it will get to the 120 decibals with less power, so watts really have no bearing on quality or how loud you can play something. I know it sounds impressive but it does not mean a thing. My music amp only puts out 8 watts a channel and I get all the volume I need except for watching movies because my player puts out a lower signal per channel on 5.1 than it does in stereo. Then I switch over to Solid State with a whopping 50 watts a channel that even though it has 6 times the watts still will only play maybe 5 decibles higher. Why not 6 times the volume? Because 6 times the watts is at best 2 times the power, and since my tube amp has passive volume control the smaller signal just won't get the volume up where I want. By the way for movies my front and rear channels are run by 25 plus year old Marantz recievers that cost me $5 and $30 and sound better than any HT reciever less than $1,000 that I have heard. So the thing that I want to stress is that amps do not have to be rated by watts, buying new is not always better, and the HT recievers are even worse because you have to pay for all kinds of effects that you won't use and when it breaks it is cheaper to get another than to get it fixed. Pay only for what you are going to use and spend carefully. Never plop down big bucks untill you have listened long and carefull. Learning to spell might help you too if you want to express yourself in writing. No comment on 2 way vs 3 way and titanium domes suck.
ahhhh, Mrfeedback, once again we meet and as usual its in the midst of trouble! hehehe
""i am trying to lern but it is realy hard.... "
- The medical term is frontal lobe damage. "
Your a gem Eric
slice, I'm 17 too and it $%!ts me with all the crappy music these oldies listen too, but i know that they possess so much more info on these audio subjects, so i ask, and they reply and most of the time i find out exactly what i need to know without any hassles. Ive been following you for a while and i agree totally with what is being said about you, and have withheld from responding to your threads because of this, and you shouldnt use your age as an excuse, i've been on this forum for a year and then some and i havent offended anyone yet. Its easy, if I can do it, so can you, and look, i can type and spell too!
Sometimes these "gurus" can be a tad negative, check my "turning pro" thread, but its all useful info, and they do give up way too much of their valuable time to assist young and impressionable minds like myself, all without a paycheck! I'd repay the favour if anyone asked about the stockmarket, options etc, but i cant see that happening in the near future, no doubt all these guys are flat broke from spending all there cash on audio bits and pieces or the latest G. Rollins best seller.
""i am trying to lern but it is realy hard.... "
- The medical term is frontal lobe damage. "
Your a gem Eric
slice, I'm 17 too and it $%!ts me with all the crappy music these oldies listen too, but i know that they possess so much more info on these audio subjects, so i ask, and they reply and most of the time i find out exactly what i need to know without any hassles. Ive been following you for a while and i agree totally with what is being said about you, and have withheld from responding to your threads because of this, and you shouldnt use your age as an excuse, i've been on this forum for a year and then some and i havent offended anyone yet. Its easy, if I can do it, so can you, and look, i can type and spell too!
Sometimes these "gurus" can be a tad negative, check my "turning pro" thread, but its all useful info, and they do give up way too much of their valuable time to assist young and impressionable minds like myself, all without a paycheck! I'd repay the favour if anyone asked about the stockmarket, options etc, but i cant see that happening in the near future
, no doubt all these guys are flat broke from spending all there cash on audio bits and pieces or the latest G. Rollins best seller.Mrfeedback go away go spend your time messing with someone else’s mind...
The reason I don’t spell as well is because I type fast unlike you of geezer….
I also just thought you would like to know that diy audio has been a much worse experience thanks to you…
You think you know all and you get your jollies off by bashing on others…
So once again I have to say F%#K OFF! I don’t go into your forum and bash on you so don’t come into mine and bash on me!
I was hoping to get some feed back about the new amp I have selected…
I understand now that crown is **** so I am looking for something better…
How about the QSC MX2000a no one has given me any feed back on it yet but I am sure it will come…
Thanks,
Slice
The reason I don’t spell as well is because I type fast unlike you of geezer….
I also just thought you would like to know that diy audio has been a much worse experience thanks to you…
You think you know all and you get your jollies off by bashing on others…
So once again I have to say F%#K OFF! I don’t go into your forum and bash on you so don’t come into mine and bash on me!
I was hoping to get some feed back about the new amp I have selected…
I understand now that crown is **** so I am looking for something better…
How about the QSC MX2000a no one has given me any feed back on it yet but I am sure it will come…
Thanks,
Slice
Gentlemen!
Mr. Moderator..... where are you.......? At least no gratuitous images were posted.
Slicemaster101, I think you would be much happier at:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/bbs.html
Newsgroup rec.audio.opinion
I am positive that they will be able to answer all your questions in a prompt and professional manner with much more expertise. Tell them I sent you.
H.H.
Mr. Moderator..... where are you.......? At least no gratuitous images were posted.
Slicemaster101, I think you would be much happier at:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/bbs.html
Newsgroup rec.audio.opinion
I am positive that they will be able to answer all your questions in a prompt and professional manner with much more expertise. Tell them I sent you.
H.H.
QSCs are for PA system subwoofers. Try and get it in your mind that pro sound is not very good for home audio. Don't look at power ratings since if you plan on building your own speakers you can build to complement your electronics. You want to put your money into the front channels because that is the best for listening, then your subs since you will use those with the front, then your front center because that is where the dialog is in the movies, then your rear and last of all the sides. Even movies that are DTS the amount of signal that is not coming out of the front is very little. I understand you want good speakers and amps for the special effects. What you need to understand is that if you do it right the front end of your HT/ Stereo should be where you put 80% of your investment. When you actually start building your speakers think about what you want to next and the fact that you can move the front speakers to the back as you upgrade. To start out with the same type amp and speaker in every position is not only a waste of money but it is not very smart either. Put your money where it will do the most good. Here is a place where you can read reviews written by consumers not manufacturers or professional reviewers <www.audioreview.com> Take your time and get informed and remember that good audio equipment will make for good movie listening too, but pro gear and often AV gear can end up being pretty bad audio gear. Put the music 1st and the rest will fall into place. The last thing is that this is a thread that you started, not a forum. Everyone that has posted has done so to try and help you. This is our forum. If you want to get help from us you need to ask for it correctly and respond politely. You are the one asking for help.
Thatch_Ear you are completely right…
I was way to forceful with my dealings and I am sorry for that…
I wish to being out that I am really new to this and I am still learning
How to interact with people in these forums…
I would really like to point out that these QSC amps were designed for cinema use….
They are the MX series and are THX approved for Cinema use…
No offence but if it is good enough for THX Cinema tests it is good enough for me….
The price is right and from what I hear on the “grapevine” they are much better then the crown amps I mentioned previously.
Thank you for all your help…
Once again I apologies to every one for my unacceptable behavior…
I am looking forward to talking with most of you again some day….
Thank you,
Slice
I was way to forceful with my dealings and I am sorry for that…
I wish to being out that I am really new to this and I am still learning
How to interact with people in these forums…
I would really like to point out that these QSC amps were designed for cinema use….
They are the MX series and are THX approved for Cinema use…
No offence but if it is good enough for THX Cinema tests it is good enough for me….
The price is right and from what I hear on the “grapevine” they are much better then the crown amps I mentioned previously.
Thank you for all your help…
Once again I apologies to every one for my unacceptable behavior…
I am looking forward to talking with most of you again some day….
Thank you,
Slice
slicemaster101 said:
Much better "tone" Slice. thanx. and Mr. Thatch_ear you'd make a good diplomat :^)
THX is a set of specs that have gotten cinemas to at least have some similarity in sonic qualities and the marketing force has made cinema owners pay more attention. It is still a Pro application thou, and even a modest HT can sound way better than the cinema -- that is why so many of us are staying at home and watching DVDs.
The QSC may be better than the Crown but you can still do better. Pro amps tend to be light, efficient (so they run really close to class B with its inherent notch distrotion), and reliable -- sound quality is usually way down on the list and sometimes not even on the list. A notable exception to this are the Bryston amps.
Before you even consider what amps, you should have a good idea about the speakers, then choose amplifiers that suit. And if you want loud & good, the best way is to multi-amp* -- that is how all the pro systems worth anything are run.
*(an amp for the woofers, another for the mids, and the smallest, but best one for the tweeters).
If you are into a little kit construction you can save some good money (i am thinking here of a complete Marchand system here as a possibility).
BTW: one of my many jobs is overseeing (which at the moment means doing everything) the design of some superior cinema sound systems for HD3D Movies so i do have some background.
dave
And slice, here are some professional comments on 6.1 & 7.1.
Hope this helps you just stick with 5.1 for now.
dave
Hope this helps you just stick with 5.1 for now.
dave
>BTW: one of my many jobs is overseeing (which at the moment means doing everything) the design of some superior cinema sound systems for HD3D Movies so i do have some background.
Dave,
You've piqued my interest. Sounds like cutting-edge stuff (although they didn't give the audio end any playtime on the website).
Since you're a guy who might know, let me ask you this: Do you see any current/growing/future demand in modern theater-land for extreme sub-bass reproduction? I understand that current movie bass content doesn't really go south of 20Hz. However, I'm wondering if that is changing as movies push the limits and try to keep wowing viewers. It seems to me that, say, a decently loud 12Hz effect on a movie bass track could give movie producers a whole new palette of psychological tools to get through to viewers (while simultaneously challenging theater architects!).
The reason I ask this is that I've been designing a large-venue sub-bass module. It's basically an extension of ELF state of the art, compact and moveable, yet displacing 3+ Cu. ft. per cycle. I envision it being capable of flat anechoic response into the mid teens, or perhaps lower. It would augment current systems, steeply crossed over below, say, 40Hz.
I am anticipating that movie bass tracks will creep steadily deeper over the coming years, and I'm dreaming that I'll be the guy to anticipate and fill that bottom niche. What's your take on where movies are and where they're going? More to the point, do you anticipate a market for such a device? We should probably take this discussion off this thread--I certainly don't want to spoil the show.
Bill
Dave,
You've piqued my interest. Sounds like cutting-edge stuff (although they didn't give the audio end any playtime on the website).
Since you're a guy who might know, let me ask you this: Do you see any current/growing/future demand in modern theater-land for extreme sub-bass reproduction? I understand that current movie bass content doesn't really go south of 20Hz. However, I'm wondering if that is changing as movies push the limits and try to keep wowing viewers. It seems to me that, say, a decently loud 12Hz effect on a movie bass track could give movie producers a whole new palette of psychological tools to get through to viewers (while simultaneously challenging theater architects!).
The reason I ask this is that I've been designing a large-venue sub-bass module. It's basically an extension of ELF state of the art, compact and moveable, yet displacing 3+ Cu. ft. per cycle. I envision it being capable of flat anechoic response into the mid teens, or perhaps lower. It would augment current systems, steeply crossed over below, say, 40Hz.
I am anticipating that movie bass tracks will creep steadily deeper over the coming years, and I'm dreaming that I'll be the guy to anticipate and fill that bottom niche. What's your take on where movies are and where they're going? More to the point, do you anticipate a market for such a device? We should probably take this discussion off this thread--I certainly don't want to spoil the show.
Bill
i will take it into...
well i already have all the other equiptment picked out...
i know most dvd do not take advantave of 7.1 but i would like to have it for the future so i do not have to upgrade for a very very long time....
i know you guys are not fans of pro amps but could you please tell me if these amps would give me good sound and be very loud....
if not could you suggest some amps that will put
out 400w @ 8ohms...for around $1,000 each.....$1,500 tops
i probley would take your advise for the multi amp idea but i don't have the money...
thanks you guys,
Slice
well i already have all the other equiptment picked out...
i know most dvd do not take advantave of 7.1 but i would like to have it for the future so i do not have to upgrade for a very very long time....
i know you guys are not fans of pro amps but could you please tell me if these amps would give me good sound and be very loud....
if not could you suggest some amps that will put
out 400w @ 8ohms...for around $1,000 each.....$1,500 tops
i probley would take your advise for the multi amp idea but i don't have the money...
thanks you guys,
Slice
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