Ladies and Gentlemen:
I have left the DIY LCD and I think you should too.
Here is my story.
I have always wanted a big Television. My first was last year, it was the ever popular Fresnel lens and 13” TV. I quickly grew to my first homemade LCD projector using a portable Tv and a slide projector. It was okay, but the pixel count was far to low for an acceptable picture. I played around with trying to get LOA's to work and in the end gave up. Then luck was on my side, I picked up a Telex P170v Lcd projector on ebay for $200, I added about $50 for spare bulbs, etc. The result was a descent 640x480 picture. The projector was in essence the same idea as a DIY projector, It used the same bulb as in overhead projectors, and a LCD panel that appears to be the same as the one used in Telex overhead projection panels. But I was still not happy.
This was when I started to mull over the idea of a CRT projector, I visited avsforum and asked if a crt projector was a good idea for someone who lives in a college dorm and the answer was NO! But someone did recommend a projector I have not heard of the Davis DL-450, I looked around and it was raved about a few years ago in the home theater circles. I was lucky enough to kind on member of AVS forum who had upgraded, and agreed to sell his projector to me for $600 (a good deal if you ask me). The projector is 800x600 600 lumens, 6000 hour bulb with 525 on it, and a 500:1 contrast ratio. So I put my Telex P170 up on ebay, I did a much better job with the description and included a few screen shots, and it sold for $601!!! The Davis (I actually is a Kodak DP850, but It is just a rebranded Davis) image is absolutely amazing! Far better then the Telex or any Diy LCD I have seen, it is amazing period.
So what is my point? Well I have come to the realization that DIY is just not economical comported to a used projector for budget over $250.
What really surprises me is that more here and not interested in CRT projectors. I almost got a sony VPH-1271Q on ebay that has within driving distance, it sold for $510. CRT projectors can be had for around the DIY lcd budget and will yield far and away a better picture then many $5000+ digital projectors! (Can you tell I am mad that I don’t have room for a CRT J). With many willing to put up with the size of an overhead projector a CRT is a great option seeing that they are about the same size.
The bottom line is that right now the BEST option for most here is a CRT projector, for as little as $400 budget you can have a projector that can do 1600x1200 with color and contrast ratios that put everything else to shame. Also the sony 1031q which is quite small and can still do HDTV 1080i and can be had for less then $300!
Also I played ebay and in essence got a $600 projector and it only cost me $200. In the end after seeing what this projector can do It is clear to me that it is far wiser to play the used market for projectors then to build one. It seems to me that deals are there to be had all it takes is perseverance. DIY is nice, but I am sold on DLP right now, and feel that in the end I am glad I did not go the DIY route.
Thank you for you time.
I have left the DIY LCD and I think you should too.
Here is my story.
I have always wanted a big Television. My first was last year, it was the ever popular Fresnel lens and 13” TV. I quickly grew to my first homemade LCD projector using a portable Tv and a slide projector. It was okay, but the pixel count was far to low for an acceptable picture. I played around with trying to get LOA's to work and in the end gave up. Then luck was on my side, I picked up a Telex P170v Lcd projector on ebay for $200, I added about $50 for spare bulbs, etc. The result was a descent 640x480 picture. The projector was in essence the same idea as a DIY projector, It used the same bulb as in overhead projectors, and a LCD panel that appears to be the same as the one used in Telex overhead projection panels. But I was still not happy.
This was when I started to mull over the idea of a CRT projector, I visited avsforum and asked if a crt projector was a good idea for someone who lives in a college dorm and the answer was NO! But someone did recommend a projector I have not heard of the Davis DL-450, I looked around and it was raved about a few years ago in the home theater circles. I was lucky enough to kind on member of AVS forum who had upgraded, and agreed to sell his projector to me for $600 (a good deal if you ask me). The projector is 800x600 600 lumens, 6000 hour bulb with 525 on it, and a 500:1 contrast ratio. So I put my Telex P170 up on ebay, I did a much better job with the description and included a few screen shots, and it sold for $601!!! The Davis (I actually is a Kodak DP850, but It is just a rebranded Davis) image is absolutely amazing! Far better then the Telex or any Diy LCD I have seen, it is amazing period.
So what is my point? Well I have come to the realization that DIY is just not economical comported to a used projector for budget over $250.
What really surprises me is that more here and not interested in CRT projectors. I almost got a sony VPH-1271Q on ebay that has within driving distance, it sold for $510. CRT projectors can be had for around the DIY lcd budget and will yield far and away a better picture then many $5000+ digital projectors! (Can you tell I am mad that I don’t have room for a CRT J). With many willing to put up with the size of an overhead projector a CRT is a great option seeing that they are about the same size.
The bottom line is that right now the BEST option for most here is a CRT projector, for as little as $400 budget you can have a projector that can do 1600x1200 with color and contrast ratios that put everything else to shame. Also the sony 1031q which is quite small and can still do HDTV 1080i and can be had for less then $300!
Also I played ebay and in essence got a $600 projector and it only cost me $200. In the end after seeing what this projector can do It is clear to me that it is far wiser to play the used market for projectors then to build one. It seems to me that deals are there to be had all it takes is perseverance. DIY is nice, but I am sold on DLP right now, and feel that in the end I am glad I did not go the DIY route.
Thank you for you time.
Well I hate to reply to the same thing twice. Basically people, your not going to find a DLP projector for $600. Not a chance. Mike here got very lucky.
CRT is garbage unless you buy a new and very expensive one.
In the past 6 months, cheap LCD monitors have gone from crappy 150:1 or 200:1 contrast ratios to 400:1 and better. Slow response times are becoming extinct.
Laptop panels, are ahead of commercial projectors. I think you can find a UXGA projector for $50k, but no less.
CRT is garbage unless you buy a new and very expensive one.
In the past 6 months, cheap LCD monitors have gone from crappy 150:1 or 200:1 contrast ratios to 400:1 and better. Slow response times are becoming extinct.
Laptop panels, are ahead of commercial projectors. I think you can find a UXGA projector for $50k, but no less.
1) No DLP for $600 are not that rare, check completed items on ebay, no they are not common, but they are there. Just look at Verbose!
2) While I am not an expert at CRT, from my time over at AVSforum, I can tell you that they are far and away the top choice. No they are not easy to setup, but DIY LCD is no easy also. With many companies upgrading to digital projectors CRT projectors the price of used data/graphic grade CRT's have fallen sharply. Most HT experts I have have heard agrees that a USED CRT is one of the best deals in home theater right now.
2) While I am not an expert at CRT, from my time over at AVSforum, I can tell you that they are far and away the top choice. No they are not easy to setup, but DIY LCD is no easy also. With many companies upgrading to digital projectors CRT projectors the price of used data/graphic grade CRT's have fallen sharply. Most HT experts I have have heard agrees that a USED CRT is one of the best deals in home theater right now.
Now on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3015954241&category=1499
for $560 13 hours to go
Ralph
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3015954241&category=1499
for $560 13 hours to go
Ralph
)18wheeler said:
Yeah, almost everyone here do this as a hobby, and when it work they're proud to say that they do it themself!
And this is why I'm doing it. Doesn't matter if the picture is not greater than comercial LCD or CRT projector, for 600$ and the hours having fun doing it, and have some really good result at the end.. well.. it's priceless
Yah probably the biggest reason most people are into making a DIY lcd projector is to say I did it. But also think about this the projector you got has a medium resolution of 800*600 many panels people are using are 1024*768.Also what if your projector breaks?? DIY lcd projectors are easily repaired by just changing out one component like the LCD or the actual projector. Most people aren't willing to pay the bulb prices for commerical projectors although yours has a nice lifetime on it.
I wasn't aware that you could get them that cheap. But nevertheless, SVGA is pretty weak. It is without a doubt worth the money, but I'm looking for an HD solution. I've always been.
With the DIY route, it is achievable.
It's basically this. $600-$2000 for 800x600. $1800-$5000 for 1024x768. $5000-$20000 for 1280x1024, and you get my point. The price gap between high-res DLP and LCD projectors is insane.
Right now, I've got XGA. It's nice, but could be a lot better. Since it's a single LCD, the screen door is noticable (not that bad though). The 300:1 CR is borderline good enough for me. I feel that 400:1 will be just fine. I just saw the Dell/Samsung 15.4" WUXGA and I have a new mission in life.
I have HD directv service, HD local broadcasts, and HD console (Xbox), and computer games (which look like crap at SVGA). If I'm going to dedicate the room space, the screen, the time, the money, as well as the antenna and the HD decoder box I just bought, I'm not going to waste an entire room on a projector that isn't HD. That's just me.
On the other end of the spectrum, I've never suggested anyone spend significant money on a DIY projector that's going to give them low res, low contrast, and/or low brightness. It's fun to do for a lot of people, but if you can get a DLP SVGA projector for $600, then I do think that's the way to go for those people.
With the DIY route, it is achievable.
It's basically this. $600-$2000 for 800x600. $1800-$5000 for 1024x768. $5000-$20000 for 1280x1024, and you get my point. The price gap between high-res DLP and LCD projectors is insane.
Right now, I've got XGA. It's nice, but could be a lot better. Since it's a single LCD, the screen door is noticable (not that bad though). The 300:1 CR is borderline good enough for me. I feel that 400:1 will be just fine. I just saw the Dell/Samsung 15.4" WUXGA and I have a new mission in life.
I have HD directv service, HD local broadcasts, and HD console (Xbox), and computer games (which look like crap at SVGA). If I'm going to dedicate the room space, the screen, the time, the money, as well as the antenna and the HD decoder box I just bought, I'm not going to waste an entire room on a projector that isn't HD. That's just me.
On the other end of the spectrum, I've never suggested anyone spend significant money on a DIY projector that's going to give them low res, low contrast, and/or low brightness. It's fun to do for a lot of people, but if you can get a DLP SVGA projector for $600, then I do think that's the way to go for those people.
...
People are expecting too much from VERY little!
Bottom line is that for under a thousand dollars you can build yourself a good custom LCD projector. Period. How good or bad you make it is in your hands.
If you dont like LCD projectors... you wont like a DIY LCD Projector!
LCD, DLP, CRT... they all have their faults! NONE of them are perfect! You want perfect... buy Plasma. Think Plasma is too small, too expensive, not worth it... your right... buy somthing else! Dont complain. And dont come into DIY forums trashing people who like it.
People are expecting too much from VERY little!
Bottom line is that for under a thousand dollars you can build yourself a good custom LCD projector. Period. How good or bad you make it is in your hands.
If you dont like LCD projectors... you wont like a DIY LCD Projector!
LCD, DLP, CRT... they all have their faults! NONE of them are perfect! You want perfect... buy Plasma. Think Plasma is too small, too expensive, not worth it... your right... buy somthing else! Dont complain. And dont come into DIY forums trashing people who like it.
Plasma is overrated period--The rez is not that high, and they have very bad burn in problems (worse then CRT). Anyway I don't want to present the message that I don't take pride in doing things myself, I just found that I can get better results for less money by buying one. This does not mean that I don't have DIY projects now: I still have to make a screen, and I am plaining on building a HTPC, maybe a DIY Anamorphic lens, and lets not forget firmware tweaks for the projector. Mostly I watch DVD's so 800x600 is fine for me--I have heard however some succcess with getting this projector to display HDTV (not at HD rez, but much better then NTSC resolution.)
mikejz84
Thanks for your opinion mike, but I think you are "preaching to deaf ears" We all have our own reasons for going the DIY route, mine was I needed a hobby. I'm 39 years old force retired from the army with a dissability...and have BAGS of time on my hands. I can afford a production projector, in fact I have access to literally "hundreds" of good used projectors from a national video equipment rental company. I might buy one..or maybe a whole bunch of them and re-sell them on ebay...but for now...I'm having too much fun. Not to mention the education I'm recieving in LCD technology... as of right now I know more about the LCD panels that the local laptop repair guy is using than he does. ( as limited as my knowledge is)
zardoz
Thanks for your opinion mike, but I think you are "preaching to deaf ears" We all have our own reasons for going the DIY route, mine was I needed a hobby. I'm 39 years old force retired from the army with a dissability...and have BAGS of time on my hands. I can afford a production projector, in fact I have access to literally "hundreds" of good used projectors from a national video equipment rental company. I might buy one..or maybe a whole bunch of them and re-sell them on ebay...but for now...I'm having too much fun. Not to mention the education I'm recieving in LCD technology... as of right now I know more about the LCD panels that the local laptop repair guy is using than he does. ( as limited as my knowledge is)
zardoz
...
Trashing people for being cheap and telling people to abandon DIY projectors are 2 totally different things!
I cant tell you how many posts I've seen of people who went in expecting the world... spent little to no money and had the nerve to say they werent happy with the results.
And I cant wait to show some pictures... but I'm not just throwing up pictures of my project... I'm bringing it into work and taking side by side pictures with some commercial units we have on the same screen, in the same room. First on some commercial screens, then my DIY screen.
John
Trashing people for being cheap and telling people to abandon DIY projectors are 2 totally different things!
I cant tell you how many posts I've seen of people who went in expecting the world... spent little to no money and had the nerve to say they werent happy with the results.
And I cant wait to show some pictures... but I'm not just throwing up pictures of my project... I'm bringing it into work and taking side by side pictures with some commercial units we have on the same screen, in the same room. First on some commercial screens, then my DIY screen.
John
BTW
BTW, I think too many people are showing REALLY BAD pictures of their results! It's hurting DIY LCD Projectors if you ask me.
I'm sure YWH isnt the only one with great results... but he's somewhat regarded as the only one who's had success because of his photos.
If you dont have a good camera.... please, spare us. We have enough people ragging on DIY!
-John
BTW, I think too many people are showing REALLY BAD pictures of their results! It's hurting DIY LCD Projectors if you ask me.
I'm sure YWH isnt the only one with great results... but he's somewhat regarded as the only one who's had success because of his photos.
If you dont have a good camera.... please, spare us. We have enough people ragging on DIY!
-John
kl899 said:
Here is my first DIY LCD projector:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9195
Here I am asking for optinons on designs:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9584
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9130
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8838
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8850
And here I am getting advice on my first production LCD projector: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10220
The bottem Line is that I have explored DIY LCD, but found that for my atleast production projectors are better. That does not mena to put anyone down who enjoys this as a hobbie, however I feel that those that see this as a replacement for a real projector should be told that in fact they might want to give a production projector a second look.
The thing I have noticed however is that this is the 'Video' topic on the DIY audio board. My understanding is that anything DIY video is talked about here. I am not against DIY video---In fact I am quite in favor of DIY screens, HTPCs, hardware mods, etc. But I simply stated that maybe some parts of our setups are best accomplished though nondiy means.
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