No, I haven't. But I don't put much faith in purely subjective evaluations, as you know.
And in what way do you believe it is superior?
Well, the nc400 does not equal the nc1200 - there is a significant power difference. By the way, do you know how much the nc1200 actually costs as a bare module to an OEM?
True. But that is because 400W is at the clipping point. At half that power, the THD+N is less than 0.002% (compared to 0.005% for the nc500 at half the rated power).
Funny you should say that, considering Hypex actually publishes exactly that for both the nc400 and the nc500.
Yes - it gives 3 dB more headroom.
Yes I'm talking about the clipping point. The NC500 sounds better than the NC400 once you go beyond the clipping point of the NC400. I wouldn't call this a downfall.
I highly doubt you'll hear the difference between 0.003%.
I'm talking about a THD+N plot that ranges from like 0.1W up to clipping. Not just at 3 power levels.
Then overlay both plots.
So there is an old argument that the Tag McLaren 60P amplifier vs the 100P amplifier gives just 3db more headroom.
Let me assure you having owned every Tag Amp they made, that the 100P has better imaging and just a bit more of everything and all at the same volume.
I don't need a blindfold to discern this.
The 250MR (power equivalent to the nc400) is the most noticeable step upward from all of their 60P, 100P and 125M (hidden detail aka macro dynamics are heard and sound becomes 3D) ...it's definitely not just about maximum volume (which in my opinion is a quick way to damage your most important speakers, your ears)...I would probably never drive my speakers beyond 50% volume in most cases, probably 70% maximum and even then it would be a quick spate of wrecklessness!
I would really like to hear about real life User experiences of nc400 vs nc500...people who know the nc400 that have moved would justify their move, not just theoretical arguments for me please
Ps. I don't want an nc500 that lacks what I could have with an nc400...
Let me assure you having owned every Tag Amp they made, that the 100P has better imaging and just a bit more of everything and all at the same volume.
I don't need a blindfold to discern this.
The 250MR (power equivalent to the nc400) is the most noticeable step upward from all of their 60P, 100P and 125M (hidden detail aka macro dynamics are heard and sound becomes 3D) ...it's definitely not just about maximum volume (which in my opinion is a quick way to damage your most important speakers, your ears)...I would probably never drive my speakers beyond 50% volume in most cases, probably 70% maximum and even then it would be a quick spate of wrecklessness!
I would really like to hear about real life User experiences of nc400 vs nc500...people who know the nc400 that have moved would justify their move, not just theoretical arguments for me please
Ps. I don't want an nc500 that lacks what I could have with an nc400...
So there is an old argument that the Tag McLaren 60P amplifier vs the 100P amplifier gives just 3db more headroom.
Let me assure you having owned every Tag Amp they made, that the 100P has better imaging and just a bit more of everything and all at the same volume.
I don't need a blindfold to discern this.
The 250MR (power equivalent to the nc400) is the most noticeable step upward from all of their 60P, 100P and 125M (hidden detail aka macro dynamics are heard and sound becomes 3D) ...it's definitely not just about maximum volume (which in my opinion is a quick way to damage your most important speakers, your ears)...I would probably never drive my speakers beyond 50% volume in most cases, probably 70% maximum and even then it would be a quick spate of wrecklessness!
I would really like to hear about real life User experiences of nc400 vs nc500...people who know the nc400 that have moved would justify their move, not just theoretical arguments for me please
Ps. I don't want an nc500 that lacks what I could have with an nc400...
All depends on the buffer stage used, and personal taste. As I mentioned before, the LM4562 buffer stage isn't as good as the buffer stage on the NC400. But to some it may sound better if they are using cheap electronics before the amp.
Personally I'd never go back to the NC400's in a million years after hearing the NC500's with a solid pure class A discrete buffer stage. My NC400's have been sold.
We also have a fellow who compared the Bel Canto REF600M's to the NC400's and preferred the Bel Canto's.
Of course - until you reach the clipping point of the nc500 too. So that is a difference of 3 dB.
I agree.
Like this?
Are they otherwise identical, and only differ in power output?
What do those terms mean? Aren't hidden details *micro* dynamics rather than *macro*?
Of course - until you reach the clipping point of the nc500 too. So that is a difference of 3 dB.
I agree.
Like this?
Yes I suppose I should open my eyes. It appears the NC500 is quite a bit better once you get past 300W. Which confirms what my ears have been telling me.
Yes, between 300W (where the nc400 distortion starts rising) and 500W (where the nc500 distortion does the same) the nc500 is better, as already stated. That is a margin of 2.2 dB.
There are several ways of getting your hands on some nc500, but I can assure you that from my point of view I do not know about any OEM that is selling these modules.
Another question is if that should worry Hypex if someone was doing that. The hypex pro site is a interesting site with nice datasheets and stuff - and it's fully open to the public.
DO hypex actually have something that say that someone can't by 1000 nc500 and sell directly to anyone who might be interested?
Regarding nc500 - at the current price point where a nc400 is at 325 eur it would be 650 eur to bridge two nc400. If one nc500 would give almost the same result there are complete nc500 for sale for lover cost than that.
That makes it interesting, even for diy, to consider the performence of a nc500 compared to nc400.
And talking about the nc amplifiers... have anyone noticed the part from the documentation of the SMPS3KA700 (view attachment)?
Seems like if there is a nc2K out there somewhere
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about that bwt.
How will you compare the following two design against each other:
One single box housing a 4 channel amp with one SMPS3KA400 driving 4 NC400
One single box housing a 4 channel amp with 4 SMPS600 driving 4 NC400
As far as I can tell 4 SMPS600 will give 2.4Kw (right?)
A SMPS3K is 3Kw, meaning that you actually would have more power with the SMPS3K
And 4 SMPS600 cost 720 euro, while one SMPS3K cost 240 euro...
Meaning it's quite interesting to know if separat power supplies have a real advantage compared to a single more powerful supply...
How will you compare the following two design against each other:
One single box housing a 4 channel amp with one SMPS3KA400 driving 4 NC400
One single box housing a 4 channel amp with 4 SMPS600 driving 4 NC400
As far as I can tell 4 SMPS600 will give 2.4Kw (right?)
A SMPS3K is 3Kw, meaning that you actually would have more power with the SMPS3K
And 4 SMPS600 cost 720 euro, while one SMPS3K cost 240 euro...
Meaning it's quite interesting to know if separat power supplies have a real advantage compared to a single more powerful supply...
Hmm, I did not think about the fact that a single large power supply will have more reserve. I did think about the crosstalk.
So, let's say I need to power the speakers of a 7.1 setup.
In this configuration you will normally have only a number of channels driven at any time.
For the mains I would build two mono amps with one SMPS600 pr. amp. That way there will be no crosstalk on the main channels - that also will be used for hifidelity music listening in stereo.
But then it would probably be a very good design to have 5nc400 powered by one SMPS3KA400 as these channels rarely will have full power to all speakers - and the powerful SMPS3KA400 will be able to deliver a huge amount of power to the speakers that would need max power.
As hypex say one SMPS3KA400 can power 8 nc400, using it to power 5 should still leave a lot of powers in reserve. And again, this is MUCH cheeper than using 5 SMPS600 or 2 SMPS1200A400, and gives a lot more power than both the other options.
What you wrote was:
To me that does sound like you only want answers from people who believe there is an improvement.
So, do you want answers from people who believe, or people who know?
Well, I supose if one doesnt believe there is a difference in sound between a cold amp and a hot one then there is no point in them offering up any information to the original question. Which group of individuals do you fall under?
My alternate question is indeed different but the answer would tell me everything I need to know in regards to my initial question. Only this time I am opening up the audience to a larger segment of people who fall under either camp. Maybe I should have went this route the first time
Two different approaches to seeking the same information. Maybe one of them will result in an answer but at this point it doesn't much matter since my demo is already done.
I prefer evidence to "believing".
Isn't actual evidence to show the temperature doesn't matter much also valuable information to answer your question?
My experience is that while valve amps really need to be running at proper temperatures (they are called "thermionic valves" for a reason), modern class D designs with proper feedback don't have very much that is affected by minor temperature differences.
How long the capacitors maintain their charge depends on a lot of factors. None of them have any relevance on the temperature of the amps, or the audibility of the temperature difference.My alternate question is indeed different but the answer would tell me everything I need to know in regards to my initial question. Only this time I am opening up the audience to a larger segment of people who fall under either camp. Maybe I should have went this route the first time
Two different approaches to seeking the same information. Maybe one of them will result in an answer but at this point it doesn't much matter since my demo is already done.
Does it measure any better with this Class A discrete buffer stage compared to the buffer stage used in NC1200 or NC400?
It measures even better than the amp modules themselves. 140DB S/N ratio throughout the entire operating range, and THD+N of 0.0003 with 20db of gain!
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