The Story Continues
Today I listened to my 3 Monstres.
All are built with original transistors: one has Kiwame resistors, one has tantalum resistors and the last one I bought already made so I don’t know which type of resistors are used.
The first two are powered by the same PSU, which has about 900000 uF capacitance and a 160VA transformer. The last one has the same capacitance and a 300VA transformer.
Because the Monstres do not like my ESLs (more on that later) I listened to them on a Focal 2-way system housed in a drainage-pipe Daline type enclosure.
To cut a long story shorter, I didn’t like the Kiwame version. It had an edgy feeling and didn’t have the smoothness and natural sound of the other 2. Don’t get me wrong: it sounds very good, but the other 2 were just better.
I will try Jazz’s mods on this one and let you know if and how it improves.
The tantalum and 300VA version were very close: closer than I had expected. The 300VA version exhibited more detail, air and sounded more natural. The difference was minute but noticeable. Yet the tantalum version sounded cleaner, less edgy. In the end I think I would prefer the tantalum version.
My feeling now is that of the resistors I have tried until now in the Monstre, I prefer tantalum. I also feel that the Monstre benefits from using a larger transformer. Next step will be building a tweakable PSU based on a 300VA transformer for the tantalum version to further explore the influence of the PSU on the Monstre. Again, I will keep you posted.
In another thread I mentioned my problems with the Monstre and my ESL. I think I solved that now. A short while ago I measured the impedance of the ESLs and it falls to about 0,8 ohms at 20 kHz. My 30W Hiraga doesn’t seem to mind but the Monstre does. After some experimenting with correction filters I now have a LR filter that puts the 20 kHz impedance at about 4 ohms; more Monstre-friendly.
Because the 300VA Monstre is in a presentable housing I hooked it up to the ESLs instead of the Hiraga.
Wow. It does everything the Hiraga does and then some. Voices and instruments sound more natural, less grainy/edgy. Again, the Hiraga does this very, very well: the Monstre is just better.
The impedance correction filter also takes away some of the highs so next step is decreasing the resistance until the Monstre can’t cope anymore.
So my first question is answered: the 30W Class A will be / is replaced with a Monstre. Some further tweaking will be done to get the most out of it.
Am I done?
No, of course not.
A friendly forumner sent me some JLH PCBs, which I will first stuff with tantalum resistors and then see how it compares in my system with the Monstre.
I will keep you posted.
Johan
Today I listened to my 3 Monstres.
All are built with original transistors: one has Kiwame resistors, one has tantalum resistors and the last one I bought already made so I don’t know which type of resistors are used.
The first two are powered by the same PSU, which has about 900000 uF capacitance and a 160VA transformer. The last one has the same capacitance and a 300VA transformer.
Because the Monstres do not like my ESLs (more on that later) I listened to them on a Focal 2-way system housed in a drainage-pipe Daline type enclosure.
To cut a long story shorter, I didn’t like the Kiwame version. It had an edgy feeling and didn’t have the smoothness and natural sound of the other 2. Don’t get me wrong: it sounds very good, but the other 2 were just better.
I will try Jazz’s mods on this one and let you know if and how it improves.
The tantalum and 300VA version were very close: closer than I had expected. The 300VA version exhibited more detail, air and sounded more natural. The difference was minute but noticeable. Yet the tantalum version sounded cleaner, less edgy. In the end I think I would prefer the tantalum version.
My feeling now is that of the resistors I have tried until now in the Monstre, I prefer tantalum. I also feel that the Monstre benefits from using a larger transformer. Next step will be building a tweakable PSU based on a 300VA transformer for the tantalum version to further explore the influence of the PSU on the Monstre. Again, I will keep you posted.
In another thread I mentioned my problems with the Monstre and my ESL. I think I solved that now. A short while ago I measured the impedance of the ESLs and it falls to about 0,8 ohms at 20 kHz. My 30W Hiraga doesn’t seem to mind but the Monstre does. After some experimenting with correction filters I now have a LR filter that puts the 20 kHz impedance at about 4 ohms; more Monstre-friendly.
Because the 300VA Monstre is in a presentable housing I hooked it up to the ESLs instead of the Hiraga.
Wow. It does everything the Hiraga does and then some. Voices and instruments sound more natural, less grainy/edgy. Again, the Hiraga does this very, very well: the Monstre is just better.
The impedance correction filter also takes away some of the highs so next step is decreasing the resistance until the Monstre can’t cope anymore.
So my first question is answered: the 30W Class A will be / is replaced with a Monstre. Some further tweaking will be done to get the most out of it.
Am I done?
No, of course not.
A friendly forumner sent me some JLH PCBs, which I will first stuff with tantalum resistors and then see how it compares in my system with the Monstre.
I will keep you posted.
Johan
I have all the components exept transformer to built a 30W class A (original nec transistors).
How much VA would you suggest for the transformer. one or two transformer?
I have 12 caps of 22000 µF each. Do you think it is necessary to use all of them?
Have you compared such amps with a Zen, an Aleph or another class A amp?
How much VA would you suggest for the transformer. one or two transformer?
I have 12 caps of 22000 µF each. Do you think it is necessary to use all of them?
Have you compared such amps with a Zen, an Aleph or another class A amp?
Hello ggta,
If memory serves me well I used a 500VA transformer; minimum would be in the neighborhood of 200VA but Hiraga (and many others) liked to play safe in this area and at least doubled the wattage available.
I think building it dual mono (2 transformers, rectifier bridges, capacitors) would be best, but more expensive. Single PSU works well enough.
I would use all those caps; mine has 12 times 78000. You could start with the ones you have and add more later to test the benefits.
There are others on this forum that have compared the Hiraga and Monstre to e.g. the JLH and others (see posts on amplifier ranking, favorite amps etc.)
Unfortunately I don't have first hand experience with the Pass amps, but I'd love to compare them.
If memory serves me well I used a 500VA transformer; minimum would be in the neighborhood of 200VA but Hiraga (and many others) liked to play safe in this area and at least doubled the wattage available.
I think building it dual mono (2 transformers, rectifier bridges, capacitors) would be best, but more expensive. Single PSU works well enough.
I would use all those caps; mine has 12 times 78000. You could start with the ones you have and add more later to test the benefits.
There are others on this forum that have compared the Hiraga and Monstre to e.g. the JLH and others (see posts on amplifier ranking, favorite amps etc.)
Unfortunately I don't have first hand experience with the Pass amps, but I'd love to compare them.
JohanH said:
Which value would you recommand for the resistors?
Do youy think it is better to reduce the hum to have:
- one transformer of 500 VA with 12 * 22 000 µF (total of 264 000 µF) for all the amp
or
-two transformers of 225 VA with 6 * 22 000 µF for each channel (total of 264 000 µF for all the amp)
HI Upupa Epops
heres where you can get them from.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/resistors.html
heres where you can get them from.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/resistors.html
Thank you Luke for this type - but I mean, that using of this resistors in all positions can do only madman . They are 100 times expensive than normal metal 1 % types ! Many guys here are thinking, that using of similar devices upgrade sound of any simly amp, but it is nonsense, good amp is made by quite different criteria and there can be used resistors with low Tk only in feedback loop. On other places is it redundant. But thanks for informations, to this time I didn't know that this type exist .
. They are 100 times expensive than normal metal 1 % types ! Many guys here are thinking, that using of similar devices upgrade sound of any simly amp, but it is nonsense, good amp is made by quite different criteria and there can be used resistors with low Tk only in feedback loop. On other places is it redundant. But thanks for informations, to this time I didn't know that this type exist .Upupa Epops said:but I mean, that using of this resistors in all positions can do only madman
well, we have a lot of madmen who can hear the unheardable and believe high prices mean high sound quality.
witness how many of them are willing buyers of high-priced miracle cables with directionality,
Hi Johan,
Good to hear you've got some results, i've been anxious to compare others opinions about those components. I have to say I'm quite surprised on you're experience with the Kiwames as I had exactly the opposite experience. I do think i can relate to the things you are mentioning about the tantalums. Are you going to try and mix them as I did?
How did you build up the capacitance of the psu? I've build it with both a big (well i think it is) psu of 132.000uF (6x22.000) crc and 225va trannie per channel and with a small psu single 225va trannie and 57.000uf crc (lots of small caps in parrallel) for a stereo amp. The difference compare somewhat to what you've described but in the end it was the smaller one i kept after tweaking the psu a little, i just liked it better.
are you going to try bypassing the resistor dividers? I think this might help the ones with the smaller trannies most.
Oh, is it possible to post some pics when you're done? I'm always quite interested in the way others build things.
Regards
Joris
Good to hear you've got some results, i've been anxious to compare others opinions about those components. I have to say I'm quite surprised on you're experience with the Kiwames as I had exactly the opposite experience. I do think i can relate to the things you are mentioning about the tantalums. Are you going to try and mix them as I did?
How did you build up the capacitance of the psu? I've build it with both a big (well i think it is) psu of 132.000uF (6x22.000) crc and 225va trannie per channel and with a small psu single 225va trannie and 57.000uf crc (lots of small caps in parrallel) for a stereo amp. The difference compare somewhat to what you've described but in the end it was the smaller one i kept after tweaking the psu a little, i just liked it better.
are you going to try bypassing the resistor dividers? I think this might help the ones with the smaller trannies most.
Oh, is it possible to post some pics when you're done? I'm always quite interested in the way others build things.
Regards
Joris
Hello Jazz,
I was surprised as well after rereading your post that my findings were the opposite of yours. Maybe the speakers I tried them on had a totally different response in the highs (just guessing) which made mine sound sharp where yours sounded more right. As you said before: it is all highly subjective.
I'm not going to mix and match.
Both amps were connected to a 160VA transformer with 2x 150000 followed by 2R2 and then a total capacitance of about 600.000.
The resistor divider bypass is next on my list for the Kiwame version.
I'll post pics when I have more of a finished product
Johan
I was surprised as well after rereading your post that my findings were the opposite of yours. Maybe the speakers I tried them on had a totally different response in the highs (just guessing) which made mine sound sharp where yours sounded more right. As you said before: it is all highly subjective.
I'm not going to mix and match.
Both amps were connected to a 160VA transformer with 2x 150000 followed by 2R2 and then a total capacitance of about 600.000.
The resistor divider bypass is next on my list for the Kiwame version.
I'll post pics when I have more of a finished product
Johan
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.