Except that the Beyma graph is zoomed out so much its very hard to interpret. It makes the graph look reasonably flat that far away. 5db peaks in the B&C graph looks like 1db peaks in the Beyma if you dont look real close.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Ok
To me its the opposite
But I wont argue about it
Measurements are really not my "field", to say the least
I want to hear a driver
But I do have feeling about what to expect
And I dont feel good about a driver without response graph
Yet, I dont trust them too much either
"really I dont know why the cheap cheap Beta-8 seem to shine where others fail , but maybe only on paper, I dont know"
I've never heard the beta 8A but it sure does look like an incredible value. If they're measured the same way as the Delta Pro 8 then the magic isn't in the way they make the graphs, because the Deltas measure like many other screaming 8's you can find.
I've never heard the beta 8A but it sure does look like an incredible value. If they're measured the same way as the Delta Pro 8 then the magic isn't in the way they make the graphs, because the Deltas measure like many other screaming 8's you can find.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I've used the 8NDL51 in my car, and my home speakers use a 15TBX100 subwoofer as a midrange. (Gedlee Summas.) B&C does their homework, and they do a lot of clever things to extend the response. For instance, the concave cone on the 8NDL51 increases rigidity without adding weight. And as for weight, the 8NDL51 cone weighs more than an aluminum-coned Seas "hifi" woofer. So these aren't your typical prosound midranges, which often have a very light cone to increase efficiency. B&C increases efficiency the expensive way, by using a big ol' motor.
Here's some ramblings on the 8NDL51 here:
Audio Psychosis • View topic - Affordable Full Range?
I use Eminence Alpha 8a in my main and monitor speakers, crossed over around 100- 800 Hz in the conical horn mains cabinets, and 3500 Hz in bass reflex monitors.
The published charts show the speaker to be quite smooth, my Smaart testing (and ears) shows the same to be true.
I purchased some Beta 8a for comparison, and found distortion to be similar. In fact, I have 8 of my dual 8 main cabinets loaded with Alpha 8a, and 2 loaded with Beta 8a, other than the Beta having slightly less output (it is slightly higher impedance) I notice very little difference between the two.
The Alpha 8 is cheaper and lighter than the Beta 8, but handles less power. That said, higher power makes for more excursion, which makes for more distortion.
The Alpha 8 are very consistent from unit to unit (unlike Eminence HF drivers...) I have units purchased recently that measure identical to ones in service for 10 years.
Although I wouldn’t go so far as to say the Alpha 8a has less distortion than the B&C 8, when used in the 100 Hz and up range, at under 200 watt peaks, the Alpha 8a seems quite clean, and average around 93 dB sensitivity from 100-2K Hz.
I have listened to my Alpha 8 loaded line array side by side to a JCL 4889 line array outdoors, if I were to hazard a guess, I’d say distortion in the region the mid cones covered was similar for a given output, but since different program material was being played, hard to say more than that.
At any rate, I have not heard anything thus far that sounds significantly cleaner, so have not been feeling any compelling reason to spend perhaps 5 times more money on a small difference in sound quality.
At only 87 dB one watt one meter, rather low on the efficiency scale, and not an 8" speaker.
Other than that...
what about this hi-eff 8 incher...
http://www.jantzen-audio.com/download/ja8008-tw034-kit/PD_JA8008_Aug10_v3.pdf
http://www.jantzen-audio.com/download/ja8008-tw034-kit/PD_JA8008_Aug10_v3.pdf
Andrew, are you saying Delta Pro8a is a screamer? I can't find many opinions about the Delta 8a but it would work great for me if it doesn't scream. I'll also check out the B&C, thanks Patrick.
Is this 8" screaming the same phenomena as "cone cry" in guitar amp paper 12s? Is it cone break up? From the paper cone being too thin or not damped enough?
How do you measure the distortion of this screaming sound? On my speaker, single stepped sine distortion test doesn't show anything even at 11V, and FR is flat. But on complex music it gets harsh at normal volume. Is some kind of multitone signal needed to simulate music so I can see the problem? What do you guys use to test for this?
Thanks!
Rich
Any opinions or experiences with the various Faital Pro 8"?
FaitalPRO - Professional Loudspeakers Made in Italy
The prices seem quite good where I am.
FaitalPRO - Professional Loudspeakers Made in Italy
The prices seem quite good where I am.
So, what's the answer ?
Coming up to real close to 4 years, and still waiting for the answer from Andrew ??
Coming up to real close to 4 years, and still waiting for the answer from Andrew ??
here's my DeltaPro8a mounted in a little Karlson cabinet vs a 6.5" ferrite motor L.Cao fullrange speaker in a Karlsonator Six prototype - the little lowmass, high qts fullrange is more sensitive but am pretty sure the Eminence will take more power and beating
I've only piddled with DeltaPro8a - it sounds mellow to my old ears like some other Eminence - be good to know how it compares to Weltersys's Alpha8
didn't JLH use a Delta8 at one point in a midbass horn - ?
I've only piddled with DeltaPro8a - it sounds mellow to my old ears like some other Eminence - be good to know how it compares to Weltersys's Alpha8
didn't JLH use a Delta8 at one point in a midbass horn - ?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
really nice measurements
Hi Fred,
I have REALLY been enjoying these. And yes, I did promise measurements, so I did them today. Measured near field, as used with active crossover in place.
Pretty much ruler flat, with the exception of the range around 500-630 Hz
where they are up 2,or 3 db. Then plus or minus 1 db all the way up to 2.0K, and then a slight droop at 2.5 K, which is very close to the mfr's curve. These are the only 8 inch paper cone I have ever heard that do NOT have that nasty "cone cry". Additionally, they are very dynamic and can handle powerful transients with ease. Perhaps not the last word in resolution near the very upper part of the mid range, which is exactly why I am pairing them up with an HDA cone driver in my next prototype. At this point in time, I am not using any horns. This project for me, is to design/develop an all out assault on what is possible with all professional direct radiators. My push-pull slot load mid bass is used below @ 250hz and down to 60Hz, and above sit my Stage Accompany SA8535.
Hi Fred,
I have REALLY been enjoying these. And yes, I did promise measurements, so I did them today. Measured near field, as used with active crossover in place.
Pretty much ruler flat, with the exception of the range around 500-630 Hz
where they are up 2,or 3 db. Then plus or minus 1 db all the way up to 2.0K, and then a slight droop at 2.5 K, which is very close to the mfr's curve. These are the only 8 inch paper cone I have ever heard that do NOT have that nasty "cone cry". Additionally, they are very dynamic and can handle powerful transients with ease. Perhaps not the last word in resolution near the very upper part of the mid range, which is exactly why I am pairing them up with an HDA cone driver in my next prototype. At this point in time, I am not using any horns. This project for me, is to design/develop an all out assault on what is possible with all professional direct radiators. My push-pull slot load mid bass is used below @ 250hz and down to 60Hz, and above sit my Stage Accompany SA8535.
Attachments
beautiful ribbon Scott L. - what is your cabinet's exact internal volume and duct ? - Delta Pro8a's q is low so in hornresp and direct radiator, some series resistance or high output Z low feedback amp is needed to avoid a midbass dip. What kind of amp do you use? I might try a 6x6 inch Dayton oval waveguide.
Fred,
It's not visible in the picture, but the duct is stuffed for this application.
The remaining volume is one cubic foot. These enclosures were just plain handy/laying around, so I used them to try these drivers out. Upon first trial I had used a tubed amp, but my tired ole trusty/dusty Citation 12 (heavily modded) out performed the tube amp by a long shot. A pretty darned good driver for some versatile applications.
I'm not using them anywhere near as low as their Fs. With a nice low Q and a 14 BL product gripping hold of a 19 gram mass; I can see where JLH found them useful in a horn, up maybe even past their mass rolloff to meet with a smaller format compression driver/horn combo. A superb cone mid range driving a large mid bass horn might be an ideal marriage. They also found a dandy engagement in my on going trial of a full scale/full tilt direct radiator system for my medium sized room, which really is not big enough for an all horn system.
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