Anton,
Firstly a computer usually has a hard disk so you may have issues with that.
Secondly I would urge you to consider a midrange that can also do midbass duty so that if you need matching rears (you can make do with phantom center) the midbass is common to all speakers. It is not essential but nice to have.
Thirdly a second mid-bass for the console mounted speaker is not required. Allison's woofer was placed to compensate for cancellations from floor reflections. At the height of the console this will not happen.
Lastly for the console speaker I would consider a 7" (18cm) that can go low safely (I define safely as 95db @ 50Hz) so that on the wild occasion that you really want to rock out your system is capable of 100-105db in room (all speakers running).
P.S. I forgot to thank you for making us part of this adventure. It has been a honour and pleasure. We really hope this project sees the light of day (many of mine are still sitting in various stages of completion).
The HDD needs to be shielded, both from vibrations and magnetic fields. I'll remember that.
Matching rears are tempting, but to use a dedicated (small) midrange kinda ruins the point of using a waveguide as the small size of a midrange (~4") makes it omnidirectional up to quite high frequencies.
Alright, one midwoofer is enough
I was mainly thinking about matching the sensitivity, but that seems unnecessary.Do you have any recommendations on good 6.5-7" that can cover 100 Hz - 2.5 kHz? My favourites (looking as specs) so far are:
SB Acoustics SB17MFC35-8
Aurum Cantus AC-165
Both go below 100 Hz (F3) in a sealed 10 l box and behave reasonably well above 3 kHz.
I'm glad you enjoy the trip
I've been thinking about the design of the console today. The ones I've shown earlier have been with a downfiring subwoofer below each speaker. That makes the console very uniform and sleek. There seem to be some disagreement whether downfiring subwoofers are good or not though.
So I tried making a design that can take another configuration:
The part that's white in one picture and black in the other is a textile grill.
Either put a 12" woofer behind the grill (easiest) and you'll have a 80 l box for each. Or make a push-pull configuration:
with two 8-10" woofers that get about 30 liters each.
/Anton
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The Faital Pro HF100 is about $50 USD, but does fall off fast above 10k. No problem for me, I can't hear much above that anyway.
The Denovo DNA-205 is supposed to be basically a clone of a B&C DE10, which is under $50 in the US.
Bill
Matching rears are tempting, but to use a dedicated (small) midrange kinda ruins the point of using a waveguide as the small size of a midrange (~4") makes it omnidirectional up to quite high frequencies.
Alright, one midwoofer is enough
Do you have any recommendations on good 6.5-7" that can cover 100 Hz - 2.5 kHz? My favourites (looking as specs) so far are:
SB Acoustics SB17MFC35-8
Aurum Cantus AC-165
Both go below 100 Hz (F3) in a sealed 10 l box and behave reasonably well above 3 kHz.
Either put a 12" woofer behind the grill (easiest) and you'll have a 80 l box for each.
For the main speakers are you looking at 2 way or 3 way? I like this idea. VAPOR SOUND :: Exquisite Sound Arcus
Most 6-7" woofers don't go high enough to be crossed to a ribbon so most likely you will limited to soft domes.
Other than the Aurum Cantus and SB Acoustics I would look at the SEAS ER18RNX or L18RNX/P (with their T27 tweeter) woofers or the Usher 8945 (which matches with their 9950 tweeter)
MurphyBlaster Productions
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble Homemade Hifi_DD8 Mk-II_copy.pdf
Since woofer-tweeters works best as combos it might be better to look at some established designs. HT Guide and Parts Express have a library of design links
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?28655-A-Guide-to-HTguide-com-Completed-Speaker-Designs
Links to existing DIY speaker designs...
I have happily used a TC Sounds 12" in 2 cu ft. and their 15" in 3 cu ft. So if you got 80 liters you can even stretch to a 15" (now wont that annoy the neighbours).
BTW the 15" machine and even the 12" machine are delivered with the magnet sub assembly separate as they are so heavy that they can break off in shipment. The 12" did not impress anyone (visually) but when my friends saw the 15" they said "OMG!"
Alright, thanks for the info. My hearing is still quite intact, so I'm aiming for at least 18 kHz.
The waveguides that seem to fit best are:
Denovo EOS8, Selenium HM17-25, Faital Pro STH100, Eighteensound XT120, Celestion H1-7050, Monacor MRH-180 (identical to the Celestion?) and SICA 200x160 (haven't seen anyone use this though).
The combination EOS8 and DNA-205 seems well proven (and cheap), used in the kit Fusion-8 Alchemy and Alpha-8 Minion:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Celestion H1-7050 and CDX1-1445 is also a decently priced combo (and easily obtainable in sweden).
Any thoughts?
For the console standing speaker I'm aiming for a 2-way and using a compression driver+waveguide for HF. If there is a combination of soft dome+waveguide or ribbon+waveguide that is proven to work well (and has a significantly lower level ~60degrees off-axis, that is still flat) I'm interested. The only decent suggestion so far is the Morel CAT 378For the main speakers are you looking at 2 way or 3 way? I like this idea. VAPOR SOUND :: Exquisite Sound Arcus
Most 6-7" woofers don't go high enough to be crossed to a ribbon so most likely you will limited to soft domes.
Other than the Aurum Cantus and SB Acoustics I would look at the SEAS ER18RNX or L18RNX/P (with their T27 tweeter) woofers or the Usher 8945 (which matches with their 9950 tweeter)
MurphyBlaster Productions
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble Homemade Hifi_DD8 Mk-II_copy.pdf
Since woofer-tweeters works best as combos it might be better to look at some established designs. HT Guide and Parts Express have a library of design links
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?28655-A-Guide-to-HTguide-com-Completed-Speaker-Designs
Links to existing DIY speaker designs...
I have happily used a TC Sounds 12" in 2 cu ft. and their 15" in 3 cu ft. So if you got 80 liters you can even stretch to a 15" (now wont that annoy the neighbours).
BTW the 15" machine and even the 12" machine are delivered with the magnet sub assembly separate as they are so heavy that they can break off in shipment. The 12" did not impress anyone (visually) but when my friends saw the 15" they said "OMG!"
The TC-sounds woofers seem to be slightly out of my budget (at least the 15"). How about Dayton RSS315 or RSS390? Both the Dayton and the TC-sounds woofers seem to be sold exclusively at PE, is that correct?
Maybe I should clarify that the quality of the bass is more important than the amount. They should play music well and it would be nice if I got some rumble for movies as well. I should try to measure what I think is a SPL that's enough for me... 1x8" + 2x12" subwoofers should be enough for my taste.
/Anton
Onni, Dave Pellegrine makes exellent waveguides. His latest is for ScanSpeak Discovery, look at this link Scan Speak D2604/ 833000 / Waveguides
Dave's homepage and shop acoustic waveguides Most of his guides are perfect fit with 6-7" woofers.
Dave's homepage and shop acoustic waveguides Most of his guides are perfect fit with 6-7" woofers.
These are interesting now that I've found some measurements!
Dayton RS28F:
RS28F/ Waveguides
Vifa NE19:
Vifa NE19VCT04 Measurements in Waveguides
Scan Speak D2604:
Scan Speak D2604/ 833000 / Waveguides
This makes the decision so much harder...
/Anton
AwesomeHey Anton, I got bored waiting for you to come to your senses so I made you a pair. RS 40-1354A drivers, 36" Cornu. I still have to put the finish on them but you can pick them up the end of the week.
Too bad it would cost me 10 the component cost to come to get them... What dimensions are recommended for the CHR-70? I have a pair of them.
/Anton
I have never used the Dayton woofers so I don't know how good or bad they are.
Hey Anton, I got bored waiting for you to come to your senses so I made you a pair. RS 40-1354A drivers, 36" Cornu. I still have to put the finish on them but you can pick them up the end of the week.
Super. Cal how about the rest of us?
Intertechnik is the official retail seller of Dayton speakers in Europe
https://www.intertechnik.com/shop/loudspeakers/dayton/dayton-subwoofer/1768,en,7053
Some others sell them too, eg. DAYTON AUDIO - Audiophonics - Câbles, Amplificateurs et Accessoires DIY
and Dayton audio • Europe Audio
https://www.intertechnik.com/shop/loudspeakers/dayton/dayton-subwoofer/1768,en,7053
Some others sell them too, eg. DAYTON AUDIO - Audiophonics - Câbles, Amplificateurs et Accessoires DIY
and Dayton audio • Europe Audio
I'll send my private jet to pick you up.Awesome
I'm not the expert but I would imagine 70-80cm and a channel depth of around 10-15cm
Get in line Navin.Cal how about the rest of us?
Actually, you will want to make them yourself. Because of the speed of the build, the reward is quicker.
Alright, too bad that the prices are almost twice as high (RSS265 costs 130 USD at PE and 168 EUR = 230 USD at intertechnik).
/Anton
I've been thinking about the how to implement subwoofer enclosures into the console considering what you said navin:
I see two solutions that significantly reduce vibrations:
1. Mount the woofers at the ends of the console
Kinda hard to see (it would be IRL as well, which is kinda the point), but the black surface pointing towards the curtain is the speaker grill. 12" or 15" woofers.
2. Implement a push-pull pair for each speaker (as shown earlier).
I made two new renderings:
8" or 10" woofers.
For option #1 i can find quite a few interesting drivers for about 300 EUR (for two). But it's a little harder to find 4 drivers for the same money. They can be smaller (as there are more of them), any suggestions? Box volume is 20-30 l for each.
How about the Peerless SLS 10", they are quite affordable and easily obtainable. There is a 10 dB dip at 25 Hz, is that a problem? Link. If I go down to the SLS 8" I'm starting to worry that the small cone combined with low Xmax will be a problem.
TangBand W8-740P and W8-1363 both have decent Xmax but seem to be designed for very small enclosures (less than 10 l each). The design allows for much more than that, but I could probably find a design that's sleeker if I would go that route.
/Anton
The vibrations might actually be a problem, both for the electronics, but also for the sound. The wall that is behind the TV is very weak (45 mm wood structure, single drywall on each side), so to put two 12" (or 15") woofers pushing the console into the wall might be a bad idea.
I see two solutions that significantly reduce vibrations:
1. Mount the woofers at the ends of the console
Kinda hard to see (it would be IRL as well, which is kinda the point), but the black surface pointing towards the curtain is the speaker grill. 12" or 15" woofers.
2. Implement a push-pull pair for each speaker (as shown earlier).
I made two new renderings:
8" or 10" woofers.
For option #1 i can find quite a few interesting drivers for about 300 EUR (for two). But it's a little harder to find 4 drivers for the same money. They can be smaller (as there are more of them), any suggestions? Box volume is 20-30 l for each.
How about the Peerless SLS 10", they are quite affordable and easily obtainable. There is a 10 dB dip at 25 Hz, is that a problem? Link. If I go down to the SLS 8" I'm starting to worry that the small cone combined with low Xmax will be a problem.
TangBand W8-740P and W8-1363 both have decent Xmax but seem to be designed for very small enclosures (less than 10 l each). The design allows for much more than that, but I could probably find a design that's sleeker if I would go that route.
/Anton
Anton, I don't think that vibrations will be a problem even with single driver/side. Just use floor board or double (constrained) layers for the box.
Push-pull is fine, but I don't think it is worth the effort and money here. Wiser to have large volume for a single driver, because you must reach very low.
Push-pull is fine, but I don't think it is worth the effort and money here. Wiser to have large volume for a single driver, because you must reach very low.
How about the version with drivers pointing to the sides? Only 2 drivers, clean aesthetics, some vibration reduction.
Not sure what you mean with floorboard, but constrained layer is a good idea. Why not just use plywood? What is usually used as the viscoelastic layer?
/Anton
Floor board = thick (25-28mm) fibre (LDF/MDF) or plywood board - not parkett. Plywood itself does not work as constrained in this meaning - layers must be very different eg. plywood and rubber or halltex (pulp). But the problem is how to integrate them to the cabinet, so that the compound system really works! Simply just thick and massive board? Cabinet end mounnting is fine. You can use them as stereo or LFE mono. Mono needs only one amp, drivers in series or parallelly.
I made a huge benh subwoofer a year ago. I have a slot with push-pull configuration, sealed chambers http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/223960-bench-style-cabinet-subwoofer-2x15-closed.html
SLS require large boxes, not well suited for this. I would usePpeerless XXLS 10" or SEAS L26ROY instead. Dayton RS subs are good too, but almost as expensive here in Europe.
I made a huge benh subwoofer a year ago. I have a slot with push-pull configuration, sealed chambers http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/223960-bench-style-cabinet-subwoofer-2x15-closed.html
SLS require large boxes, not well suited for this. I would usePpeerless XXLS 10" or SEAS L26ROY instead. Dayton RS subs are good too, but almost as expensive here in Europe.
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