danielwritesbac said:
True enough mate.
Seriously though for a minute, I generally try to respond in kind. If someone with an attitude problem suddenly comes onto a forum & starts addressing people as if they are fools, and he their teacher, (for e.g. as evidenced by our illustrious friend's denigrating remarks about 'what they're doing wrong') I'm not about to come over all sunshine & roses with them. I heartily encourage new members. But not when they start laying down the law about the habits of baboons, and the number of quills a porcupine has got (Flanders & Swann reference there.
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Scottmoose said:
You can have either a person able to listen OR a person on the defensive, but not both.
This is because defensive reactions temporarily alter thinking patterns, making it nearly impossible to receive an intellectual message under those circumstances. Its the fight or flight instinct that kicks up and then it doesn't matter so much if the intellectual content of the message is good or not because the recipient cannot make sense of it during the influence of these instincts.
So, in order for the intellectual content to survive, you do indeed need some sweetness for success. Use saccharin if sugar is unavailable.
I sincerely hope that I didn't offend by mentioning this.
Hey guys! What sort of marker was I supposed to use to scribble my CDs to make them work better?
In the computer industry, I just use SC Johnson's Pledge (or Favor) on dirty CDs (a non wax furniture polish based on urethane), and it works pretty well to cut the glare from my eyeglasses too.
Its especially good for my super magnify glasses that were supposed to have been useful in locating errant SMDs after they have escaped the workbench. Their location remains a mystery.
Is this anti glare issue, perhaps the reason that the tray and the interior of the CD player is matte black?
In the computer industry, I just use SC Johnson's Pledge (or Favor) on dirty CDs (a non wax furniture polish based on urethane), and it works pretty well to cut the glare from my eyeglasses too.
Its especially good for my super magnify glasses that were supposed to have been useful in locating errant SMDs after they have escaped the workbench. Their location remains a mystery.
Is this anti glare issue, perhaps the reason that the tray and the interior of the CD player is matte black?
cirrus18 said:
I don't get it, over 100 responses to this and only a few responses to other more interesting threads.
Why not ignore the poster? I did and will continue to ignore him. Either he goes away or learns some manners. I could not care less what he says or thinks about full range driver systems.
Perhaps, in the interests of answering the original post, howabout some links given to the wideband style of speaker that has a quality full range at its heart, covering the majority of the frequencies, and plenty of capacity for 100w or 200w worth of party music?
After all, I think that if you're going to "rock out" or party. . . might as well do so in high fidelity.
After all, I think that if you're going to "rock out" or party. . . might as well do so in high fidelity.
Interestingly enough, though we have been trolled and hooked, there have been some very enlightening and informative posts here.
I have oft wondered what many of your individual systems consisted of. It seems to be a mis-judgment that most (and some would think all) FR afficianados listen only to vinyl, only single driver systems and that we would all defend that exact method as the only one viable. I have learned in these 100+ posts that many (if not most) of us have indeed used or use multiple methods and styles. I have also learned that most of us are open to the idea that something might work or be better for us than something else. This should probably be logged into it's own thread, but I like knowing which one of you choose a FR/WR driver and mate it with a tweeter or a sub or another driver to augment some range that particular unit doesn't satisfy for you. It really shows how different each person is.
For instance, I have a Fostex FE 126E (stock for now) performing all of my high end duties. Every other peice of my system is aimed at augmenting the low end. A Silver flute 8" performs the bottom octaves of music admirably and at plenty sufficient volume levels for my taste. The 4.5" is crossed over with a single capacitor at approximately 100hz. I also have a very large subwoofer to augment the LFE frequencies for my Television and movie viewing.
Not purists at all considering a very cheap sand box for a receiver as well. I love it and think it sounds wonderful. It is MY set of compromises.
Not wishing to feed a troll here, but interested in all the responses and seeing what others truly like.
There is a lot of reasoning behind this which I will indeed start a new thread about.
Take care,
Robert
I have oft wondered what many of your individual systems consisted of. It seems to be a mis-judgment that most (and some would think all) FR afficianados listen only to vinyl, only single driver systems and that we would all defend that exact method as the only one viable. I have learned in these 100+ posts that many (if not most) of us have indeed used or use multiple methods and styles. I have also learned that most of us are open to the idea that something might work or be better for us than something else. This should probably be logged into it's own thread, but I like knowing which one of you choose a FR/WR driver and mate it with a tweeter or a sub or another driver to augment some range that particular unit doesn't satisfy for you. It really shows how different each person is.
For instance, I have a Fostex FE 126E (stock for now) performing all of my high end duties. Every other peice of my system is aimed at augmenting the low end. A Silver flute 8" performs the bottom octaves of music admirably and at plenty sufficient volume levels for my taste. The 4.5" is crossed over with a single capacitor at approximately 100hz. I also have a very large subwoofer to augment the LFE frequencies for my Television and movie viewing.
Not purists at all considering a very cheap sand box for a receiver as well. I love it and think it sounds wonderful. It is MY set of compromises.
Not wishing to feed a troll here, but interested in all the responses and seeing what others truly like.
There is a lot of reasoning behind this which I will indeed start a new thread about.
Take care,
Robert
I insist that the OP listen to a nice pair of single-driver speakers. There's something unquantifiable about them.
And therein lies part of the reason for the scarcity of commercial single-driver speakers: Unquantifiability.
When buying speakers, it's a vast space of options you're entering. Anyone, me included, will grab at any reasonably comparable number that will help in avoiding buyer's remorse.
Unquantified qualities are hard to trust, and hard to buy.
They're very listenable though. Enjoy!
And therein lies part of the reason for the scarcity of commercial single-driver speakers: Unquantifiability.
When buying speakers, it's a vast space of options you're entering. Anyone, me included, will grab at any reasonably comparable number that will help in avoiding buyer's remorse.
Unquantified qualities are hard to trust, and hard to buy.
They're very listenable though. Enjoy!
I just noticed this thread. I don't want to get into the "flame war", but it suggests two questions that I've wondered about for a while:
A- What constitutes "full range"? I'm not aware of anyone claiming 20Hz -- 20kHz +/- 3dB from a single driver and it certainly seems unreasonable to ask for it. There appear to be quite a few that can claim 50-18kHz which seems to me to correspond reasonably to the 70's era bookshelf speakers from KLH, KEF, Advent etc. If executed without a XO this looks like a reasonable expectation with the possibility of admirable results.
B- Are backhorn (and similar) designs really XO-less. You have two apertures (LF and HF) which are not concentric and must therefore generate vertical lobes. After reading explanations of how these work I can't say I closely follow the principle. However, it seems clear enough that getting a smooth response from the two apertures requires managing phase relationships at least as troublesome as you have trying to XO a two driver system.
Having written this, be aware that the speakers I listen to most often are a backhorn and to me the sound very nice.
To answer the original question...
At the end of the day, any comparison between wideband multiway speakers and single drivers is doomed to failure if you're listening for particular traits.
For my money, if I'm chasing ultimate top end sparkling extended highs and deep booming bass then no, most full range drivers won't give it to me. Personally, there's something that my Audax HM100zo HDA midrange drivers have tonally that my paper Fostex FE168 sigmas will never approach too.
BUT
The coherence, timing and "they are here" attributes that the Fostex's give are advantages enough for me to forgive the places where they fall down in comparison to normal systems. The occasional flashes of brilliance on the right material show how amazingly ahead of the game even regular non megabuck single driver speakers can be. A cost no object fullrange driver in an enclosure optimised for it, I have no doubt would be truly stunning. I'm still working to get the best out of the 168's in the time/price, WAF constraints I have.
As for vinyl being scratchy, noisy etc, poor vinyl most certainly can sound terrible. Muddy, floppy, surface noise, tics, pops, skips etc etc. Well sorted vinyl on the other hand (good system, good deck, good source material) has a noise floor well under what you can hear and a timing, coherence and tonal superiority that leaves any digital I've heard thus far for dead.
At the end of the day, any comparison between wideband multiway speakers and single drivers is doomed to failure if you're listening for particular traits.
For my money, if I'm chasing ultimate top end sparkling extended highs and deep booming bass then no, most full range drivers won't give it to me. Personally, there's something that my Audax HM100zo HDA midrange drivers have tonally that my paper Fostex FE168 sigmas will never approach too.
BUT
The coherence, timing and "they are here" attributes that the Fostex's give are advantages enough for me to forgive the places where they fall down in comparison to normal systems. The occasional flashes of brilliance on the right material show how amazingly ahead of the game even regular non megabuck single driver speakers can be. A cost no object fullrange driver in an enclosure optimised for it, I have no doubt would be truly stunning. I'm still working to get the best out of the 168's in the time/price, WAF constraints I have.
As for vinyl being scratchy, noisy etc, poor vinyl most certainly can sound terrible. Muddy, floppy, surface noise, tics, pops, skips etc etc. Well sorted vinyl on the other hand (good system, good deck, good source material) has a noise floor well under what you can hear and a timing, coherence and tonal superiority that leaves any digital I've heard thus far for dead.
Most of you know about my big gear but some might be surprised to know I have a whole bunch of stuff all the way down to 4" FR's. As I said in post 4, there's no mystery here. FR's do what they do. In certain circumstances they are the best suited to the job. Other times, not a chance. It really doesn't matter which side of the fence you're on, no one can legitimately say they're not right, to anyone who believes they are.
If someone comes for a visit, rambling up over the hill in their 4X4 and sees your sports car they might be tempted to ask "you're kidding, right? Mr cirrus is not aware there's a paved road on the other side of the house. I think perhaps Mr cirrus is just a 4X4 guy at a sports car rally.
Now, why don't you guys start reminding us of how well they do their job and stop worrying about one persons opinion and delivery. If that doesn't work there's always the ignore button.
Cheers Gentlemen, it's all about the music.
If someone comes for a visit, rambling up over the hill in their 4X4 and sees your sports car they might be tempted to ask "you're kidding, right? Mr cirrus is not aware there's a paved road on the other side of the house. I think perhaps Mr cirrus is just a 4X4 guy at a sports car rally.
Now, why don't you guys start reminding us of how well they do their job and stop worrying about one persons opinion and delivery. If that doesn't work there's always the ignore button.
Cheers Gentlemen, it's all about the music.
Re: To answer the original question...
Has anyone combined the little 3" or 2x3" Tang Band with a lightening fast alloy cone woofer, using a first-series crossover (plus an extra series cap and resistor to protect the little driver)? I did it last week, as an experiment. Oh my gosh! Earthquake bass and soaring high-flying highs, indeed. The enclosure turned out surprisingly small for the job it was doing. I wanted a super power keyboard monitor with excellent cohesion so that the keyboardist could hear over the guitarist. But, I kept it for myself. Its just as well. I have a date with the guitarist this evening.
DrewP said:
Has anyone combined the little 3" or 2x3" Tang Band with a lightening fast alloy cone woofer, using a first-series crossover (plus an extra series cap and resistor to protect the little driver)? I did it last week, as an experiment. Oh my gosh! Earthquake bass and soaring high-flying highs, indeed. The enclosure turned out surprisingly small for the job it was doing. I wanted a super power keyboard monitor with excellent cohesion so that the keyboardist could hear over the guitarist. But, I kept it for myself. Its just as well. I have a date with the guitarist this evening.
Re: Re: To answer the original question...
OK, you tease. Out with the details already.
danielwritesbac said:
Has anyone combined the little 3" or 2x3" Tang Band with a lightening fast alloy cone woofer, using a first-series crossover (plus an extra series cap and resistor to protect the little driver)? I did it last week, as an experiment. Oh my gosh! Earthquake bass and soaring high-flying highs, indeed. The enclosure turned out surprisingly small for the job it was doing. I wanted a super power keyboard monitor with excellent cohesion so that the keyboardist could hear over the guitarist. But, I kept it for myself. Its just as well. I have a date with the guitarist this evening.
OK, you tease. Out with the details already.
danielwritesbac said:Hey guys! What sort of marker was I supposed to use to scribble my CDs to make them work better?
In the computer industry, I just use SC Johnson's Pledge (or Favor) on dirty CDs (a non wax furniture polish based on urethane), and it works pretty well to cut the glare from my eyeglasses too.
Its especially good for my super magnify glasses that were supposed to have been useful in locating errant SMDs after they have escaped the workbench. Their location remains a mystery.
Is this anti glare issue, perhaps the reason that the tray and the interior of the CD player is matte black?
Daniel, are you aware of:
http://www.ultrabitplatinum.com/
Call it snake oil if you like, but it does work - No fugginkiddin (can I say that on this forum?) - something to do with refractive indexes, or somesuch
this is one of those leaps of faith that I'm glad I took, kinda like Fullrange drivers, polka-dots and marrying my wife ( after 35 years, even on a bad day - my best "gamble" ever)
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