Fs: Tda1541a/s2

[jean-paul]

I am pleased

What a good idea ! I am willing to test the batch of S2's too

Seriously, I am happy that I still have 3 pieces of original S1's. There are a bit too much S1's and S2's on the market at this time which seems strange to me considering that sources have dried up in the last years. My guess is that there are fakes around and I have heard about them too. The ones on the pics of Peter Daniel look genuine to me. If the fakes Tubeee's friend offered are rebranded S1's than the problem is not that bad if the price is right. But who knows what chips it really are ? And is the mysterious S2 worth all the trouble and money ? I think it's better to invest time in making a decent output stage for the normal TDA1541A or S1 ( While saying that I secretly hope that I'll find one S2 someday ).


However, I have a number of nice cdplayers in good condition ( with the beloved CDM 4 ) with perfect lasers and TDA1541A to accompany the S2's

It's all a matter of offer and demand

 

[tschrama]

Peter... you will never believe the pain you've just caused in my hart with your picture... How in earth did you get that batch? Really, I consider the TDA1541aS2 as one of the first 'vintage and collecteble' solid state IC. The original JRC4558 opamp of the SRV's TS-808 being the first... much like a RCA blackplate 6V6 for a fender blackface deluxe reverb... How I would love to build a simple but beautiful dac with one of those chips.. It would have a kind of intrinsic beauty to it...to me at least.

Is there any info on the web about the triple and quad crown DAC's or are they just the living evidence of fake crown-stamps?

Regards,
Thijs

 

[Tubeee]

Is there any info on the web about the triple and quad crown DAC's or are they just the living evidence of fake crown-stamps?

Thijs:
Don't be fooled by this , all triple adn quad crown DAC's in here is made by computer simulation. That's why I said Ha!

The Peter Daniel's double crown S2 is the real stuff. A genuine Philips chip. I saw once in a hi-end Sony DAC. I also have some assumption: The S2 version; if you check on the TDA1541A datasheet released in 1991, you will find that there is no S2 version. Carefully look and check the prints on those TDA1541/A/R1/S1, they are about the same style. It means that during this period of time (<1991?) , TDA1541 was manufactured by the same factory with same procedure. The only difference is they all go through selection procedure to classify A/R1/S1 version. While to look on the S2 version is quite different and I guess that this chip is from a different manufactured procedure as printed on the chip, Taiwan, my country. I think the S2 is a latest version and the factory make only S2 version with new procedure and no need to be classified. This is my assumption. I really hope someone knows the truth and willing to post here.

If my assumption is correct, the group of TDA1541/A/R1/S1 sounded different to S2 version since they came from different manufacturing procedure. Who has the experience to check out the sonic characteristics?

Jean Paul: Can you test and classify the TDA1541 chip. If you really can tell/check and classify them to A, R1, S1 no crown, S1 single crown, S1 double crown (If the previous assumption correct, they may all exist in the real word). I am considering sending one S1 double crown to you and letting you test on it.

 

[apassgear]

Here is some information from the state of the art Philips web site

ttp://www.semiconductor.philips.com/acrobat/various/DIGITAL.pdf

The document is called Semiconductor for Digital Audio

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Marked with single crown (TDA1541A/S1 only)
Marked with double crown (TDA1541A/S2 only)

Specs: S2, S1

Typ. THD+N full scale at 0dB: -97 , -95 dB
Typ. THD+N at -60 dB: -47 , -47 dB
Channel separation: 98 , 98 dB
Typ. Signal to noise ratio: 112 , 112 dB
Full scale output current: 4.0, 4.0 mA
Package : DIL28, DIL28

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

So S1 and S2 are almost identical except at full scale which S2 is 2dB better, my guess is that is not posible to tell them apart form a listening test but if what Tubeee says is correct they might have a different signature.

I also collected a data sheet for TDA1541A.

 

[Tubeee]

Tony,

The official Philips digital.pdf:
www.semiconductors.philips.com/acrobat/various/DIGITAL.pdf
was released on 1997 and does include the version TDA1541A/S2

The TDA1541A datasheet :
www.elektro-obecnice.cz/data/pdf/TDA/TDA1541A.pdf
was release on 1991 and here is no TDA1541A/S2 version, please check on it

The TDA1541 datasheet:
www.arky.ru/audio/sprav/datasheets/tda1541.pdf
was release on 1985, there is no A, R1, S1 versions

you can read the year of publications and the contents, they all have a little difference in betweens.
from digital.pdf the rank is S2>S1>R1>A
from TDA1541A.pdf the rank is S1>A>R1 (no S2)
from TDA1541.pdf TDA1541 is the only product

 

[kasra]

I once talked with a dealer of components about tda1541 ic´s, we talked about all the different kinds, he also mentioned something intresting which might be usefull?

qoute:
I have seen S1's with a second crown, this is an S1 that made S2 grade after a second test.

this was about a 16 months ago.

/kasra

 

[nelsonian]

While were on the subject of verifieing 1541
"crowns" I just took delivery of this ....
Can anyone offer an opinion as to whether it
looks genuine. It was bought from a DIYAUDIO
member (Who offered to buy it back without
hesitation when I questioned its "look")
It looks like no other Crown I have seen
online, Whaadya think?
Unfortunately I cant use it at the present.
Tony

 

[jean-paul]

That one looks like a fake.

 

[apassgear]

I also do have an original Philips S1 and the one you show also looks fake to me.

I don't think it's a good idea to show a pic of the one I have since this might promote more faithfull reproductions of fake S1 or S2 chips.

 

[Tubeee]

Tda1541a/s1

This is the genuine Philips TDA1541A/S1 of mine.

Watch for the left white line... That is another difference I can tell..

apassgear: Does your TDA1541A/S1 has this white line? Since we all interesting in building TDA1541's DAC we'd better to have the ability to identify them from fake one.

kasra: I am not saying that yours is fake one, coz your crown and s1 prints is very very similar in shape to what I observed for those S1's. It is too costy to remark coz this is a small market (China is the most possible place if there is remark ones. but remarks in China should be roughly printed I guess, but yours ...hmmm I just can't tell though)

Any one who knows the whole tale???

 

[scottnixon]

another example

Bought 100 of these in 1989, I have one left. So for a 1988 chip, this is how mine were marked S1 and 'crowned' These came straight to me from Philips, no middleman Have always noted that the crown had one sharp point and two balled points on all I've ever seen. Even the 'non-hand stamped' versions from the 90's had the same 'crown'. Not saying the 3 pointed versions are fake, just there was a lot of hand stamped (or secondary stamped) as graded chips around. I checked with one of my brokers, I can get 30 - 40 thousand '51As right now, but no grade selection. Not bad for an out of print design.

 

[Bernhard]

Where have this S1 and S2 been built into ?

Any Philips CD Player ?

 

[tschrama]

Hi Tubeee,

any pics yet or other info?

Regards,
Thijs

 

[jean-paul]

Where have this S1 and S2 been built into ?

Any Philips CD Player ?

S1 was used in Marantz CD80, Arcam Delta 70.2 and a LOT of other machines. I forgot but Philips CD880 probably has one too.

S2 was used in the Marantz CD7 High End cdplayer. I don't know of any other gear that used the S2. I once read that S2 was specifically rerun for this cdplayer.

 

[fedde]

I don't think that the CD880 had one as the CD960 uses the standard TDA1541.

Fedde

 

[jean-paul]

I have seen CD80's with standard TDA1541A as well as with S1's and I heard about 960's with S1 but you probably are right about CD880.

There are some models from Philips that use S1 but it is not my hobby to remember which exact models carry the chip Most of them have the plain vanilla TDA1541A anyhow.

The Marantz models used S1 more frequently and they are more existent in my memory for some reason.

 

[Bernhard]

There are some models from Philips that use S1 but it is not my hobby to remember which exact models carry the chip Most of them have the plain vanilla TDA1541A anyhow.

Come on...


Could I built a zero os dac with 1541/1541A and later swap for S1 ?

 

[fedde]

CD-960 with S1's are modified. Or is there a later serie ? My CD-960 had the 1541 so not the A-version! The 1541A didn't exist at that time...

Fedde

 

[jean-paul]

Yes but why build it with plain vanilla TDA1541A first if you have the choice ( apparently ) ? Skip the version without A as it is less good than the A versions.

CD-960 with S1's are modified. Or is there a later serie ? My CD-960 had the 1541 so not the A-version! The 1541A didn't exist at that time...

A is around from 1985 IIRC but I'll check if that's correct.

 

[fedde]

Could I built a zero os dac with 1541/1541A and later swap for S1 ?

Sure! I would go for at least the A version. The implementation is slightly different from the standard 1541 and they sound better. The availibility is no problem.

Fedde