Holy Coil , Andrew Jones just got doomed by this Satori-Strike 
https://www.justdiyit.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Satori-MT19CP-passif-Directivity-hor-bis.png
https://www.justdiyit.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Satori-MT19CP-passif-Directivity-hor-bis.png
Which Coax of similar size is the better one? (passively filtered)
Sourcepoint 8 inch or the slightly smaller Satori incarnation? (7.5 inch)
I think the Satori sounds at least as good , that's all an average DIY guy wants to know!
With an integrated sub (bigger cab of course reaching down to the floor replacing speaker stand) it will even beat the MoFi asthmatic stuff in the LF range ....
I see a big wide grin in the faces of Satori Coax owners coming up
And tears in the eyes of Andrew Jones
Power to all our DIY friends!
Sourcepoint 8 inch or the slightly smaller Satori incarnation? (7.5 inch)
I think the Satori sounds at least as good , that's all an average DIY guy wants to know!
With an integrated sub (bigger cab of course reaching down to the floor replacing speaker stand) it will even beat the MoFi asthmatic stuff in the LF range ....
I see a big wide grin in the faces of Satori Coax owners coming up
And tears in the eyes of Andrew Jones
Power to all our DIY friends!
The configuration looks attractive but at £250 it is too expensive compared to the price of a good tweeter and midrange. Their budget coaxials at £45 are a good price. Would like to see a standard range coaxial at £100-150 but not hopeful given it would almost certainly hurt sales for this driver which being their prestige brand likely has a much larger profit margin.
The edge around the tweeter looks sharper and deeper than it might have been. I wonder if diffraction off it is helping with the high frequency radiation pattern. Anyone? It is causing the unsightly on-axis deviations but these are likely to be largely irrelevant in use.
The edge around the tweeter looks sharper and deeper than it might have been. I wonder if diffraction off it is helping with the high frequency radiation pattern. Anyone? It is causing the unsightly on-axis deviations but these are likely to be largely irrelevant in use.
Could you post the DIY speaker details that you compared to the Sourcepoint 8? I'd be interested in the crossover that was developed.
Hi all,
unfortunately setelec.fr gave up the distribution of the KEF coax chassis as spare parts already last year
i made some orders for years before that date as a kind of hobby collector of loudspeaker chassis for a long term project to reactivate the home theater where the need a lot of speakers with small dimensions make the KEF coax chassis even more attractive
looking at the last improvement step with the metamaterial absorption technology in the zipped document as attachment i estimate that KEF still have 3 to 5 years lead in technology ahead to the competition
another story are the PA coax chassis, here i see a lot of ongoing development with chassis available for DIY
here i would like to know if someone here has made some "cost no object" experiments with the 12NCX910BE and 15NCX910BE chassis
so far - so good, Stefano
unfortunately setelec.fr gave up the distribution of the KEF coax chassis as spare parts already last year
i made some orders for years before that date as a kind of hobby collector of loudspeaker chassis for a long term project to reactivate the home theater where the need a lot of speakers with small dimensions make the KEF coax chassis even more attractive
looking at the last improvement step with the metamaterial absorption technology in the zipped document as attachment i estimate that KEF still have 3 to 5 years lead in technology ahead to the competition
another story are the PA coax chassis, here i see a lot of ongoing development with chassis available for DIY
here i would like to know if someone here has made some "cost no object" experiments with the 12NCX910BE and 15NCX910BE chassis
so far - so good, Stefano
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I just got my hands on one and have been playing around with it on an open baffle with 2x 15OB350 woofers.
This is my first time using a coax. I can give some subjective impressions. I’m still playing around with the crossover so take this feedback with a grain of salt.
Personally, I prefer the sound of metal-cone drivers and may try the King Coax next to see if I like that more.
If you like the warmth and classic sound of paper, want the benefits of a point source, and don’t mind the slightly dark treble, this seems like a good choice for the price.
This is my first time using a coax. I can give some subjective impressions. I’m still playing around with the crossover so take this feedback with a grain of salt.
- The off-axis advantages of coax are real. The sound is amazingly consistent as I move around the room.
- Transients are good. Piano and guitar plucks are sharply contoured & realistic.
- The tweeter sounds a little dull… lacking some sparkle.
- The paper cone is less detailed and revealing compared to my preferred metal-cone drivers (Eton Arcosia, EAD Sweden, Markaudio Alpair & MOAP).
Personally, I prefer the sound of metal-cone drivers and may try the King Coax next to see if I like that more.
If you like the warmth and classic sound of paper, want the benefits of a point source, and don’t mind the slightly dark treble, this seems like a good choice for the price.
@gregulator
When you move on to the next, sell these to me.
I'm completely deaf above 12 kHz, so I won't miss out.
Save me from buying MoFi 8s!
When you move on to the next, sell these to me.
I'm completely deaf above 12 kHz, so I won't miss out.
Save me from buying MoFi 8s!
Pay attention to the crossover point and slope. Keep the crossover slope step > 2kHz LR4 as possible for the tweeter and don't go too low > 300Hz.
Your Coax is centered not it is the best position on the baffle, diffraction can ruins the sound. Try to offset it.
Not sure the king coax works well in OB, this speaker is too perfect in its operating range, you will have diffraction dip. I gave up with my C16N001, a big deep at 1.5kHz. Perhaps if you work the shape of the baffle like Linkwitz did with with his LX521.
My experience with coax’s has all been the same…..balancing the tradeoff off the wonky frequency response up to with the ridiculous point source image. I use a pair of modified KEF Q150 in the near field as my mix monitors for making decisions on compression and time domain processing.…….the near perfect phase coherency works well here and with identifying other phase anomolies like tracks created same source with two mics.
But for EQ, tone and timbre, they fall way short of my needs.…..and that’s been my take on coax’s in general……too much comparative confusion above 6k.….Ueri’s we’re even worse in this regard. For me, the problems are inherent to the design as it stands…….and I’m not confident that tech will find further improvements to mitigate the flaw. I thought the issue might be the low frequency output of the woofer and the cone movements, so i high passed them in my DAW as far up as 500hz……the confusion cleared up a little, but not enough to consider adding a dedicated woofer as a solution.
Of course, YMMV…….this is my subjective observation…..the objective measures of the high frequency confusion is evident for folks to help sighted listeners figure it out.
I agree with Jerome though too….I’m confident that baffle placement isn’t ideal.
But for EQ, tone and timbre, they fall way short of my needs.…..and that’s been my take on coax’s in general……too much comparative confusion above 6k.….Ueri’s we’re even worse in this regard. For me, the problems are inherent to the design as it stands…….and I’m not confident that tech will find further improvements to mitigate the flaw. I thought the issue might be the low frequency output of the woofer and the cone movements, so i high passed them in my DAW as far up as 500hz……the confusion cleared up a little, but not enough to consider adding a dedicated woofer as a solution.
Of course, YMMV…….this is my subjective observation…..the objective measures of the high frequency confusion is evident for folks to help sighted listeners figure it out.
I agree with Jerome though too….I’m confident that baffle placement isn’t ideal.
Here is the crossover I am currently using:
Some things I've learned playing with the crossover:
- Bass: 12mH inductor on the 15" woofers. This is a trick I use in all of my OB designs to get good bass extension: Large inductor on the bass drivers, with heavy attenuation of the mid/treble. It works well here.
- Coax:
- 2500hz LR2 crossover.
- 300hz 1st-order high pass on the woofer
- 9db attenuation of woofer
- 4.5db attenuation of tweeter
Some things I've learned playing with the crossover:
- First-order is a no-go. I generally prefer first-order crossovers, so I tried 1st-order parallel, series and capacitor-free "acoustic reality" first-order filters with various crossover frequencies. While first-order has a very direct & raw sound that I usually like, in this case did not sound good - compressed and crackly.
- 2nd-order vs 4th order. I tried a 4th order Gaussian w/ 2500hz crossover (I didn't have the right component values on-hand for an LR4). I couldn't hear any advantage over the LR2. In fact I think I preferred the LR2. Maybe 4th-order with a higher crossover frequency would work better, but I am limited by the components I have lying around.
- High-pass on woofer definitely helps. The coax is really a mid + tweeter. Running it fullrange results in congestion. It sounds much cleaner with a high-pass filter on the woofer.
- Treble boost: I found I need to attenuate the tweeter less than expectes to get a balanced sound. I tried 3db, 4.5db and 6db attentuation on the tweeter with 9db attenuation on the woofer. 3db on the tweeter was to bright. 6db sounded good but a little dark. 4.5db is a good compromise...perhaps still a little bright.
You use a textbook for the crossover ?
The polarity of the mid is wrong. You should inverse it, LR2 drivers are in reverse polarity. This is why you find the treble dark.
If you have too many midrange lower the capacitor in series of the mid (66uF).
You can do much better ! You have the potential of a very high end speaker.
Note you should use the same mid placement of this project (http://www.sbaudience.com/index.php/application/15inch-open-baffle-three-way/)
Try to use a measurement system to see clearly the response curve of the speaker.
Very interesting to see your future improvements
The polarity of the mid is wrong. You should inverse it, LR2 drivers are in reverse polarity. This is why you find the treble dark.
If you have too many midrange lower the capacitor in series of the mid (66uF).
You can do much better ! You have the potential of a very high end speaker.
Note you should use the same mid placement of this project (http://www.sbaudience.com/index.php/application/15inch-open-baffle-three-way/)
Try to use a measurement system to see clearly the response curve of the speaker.
Very interesting to see your future improvements
Can I ask which EADs you have tried? I've been interested in the E100HD MKII as a midrange based on its presented paper response - but it seems weirdly better than both the bigger and smaller units and I'm a tad suspicious.
The E100HD MKII is a great driver. Extremely revealing and refined sound. The E170 mkii is a great driver too with impressive bass. The E60HD Mkii works well as a midtweet but definitely beams more than a tweeter. All have a bit of a harsh & unpleasant metallic-sounding breakup, but if you can get that under control these are fantastic drivers.
For lack of a better word, the EAD drivers do sound a touch “metallic”. For instance, the snare on beats 2 & 4 of Imagine Dragons “Believer” sounds like a “clank” on the EADs and more like a “clap” on the Satori’s.
See my build with these here: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-baffle-build-for-baf-23.404068/#post-7472024
I made a simulation of the crossover to confirm what I think. I have a similar project with the 12"+5"+1"WG. If the midrange is not reversed you have the purple curve. Pay attention the 150b150 has a breakup peak at 1.5kHz, it can affect the treble if not well suppress. Here the 12O150 at 2kHz.
Hope this helps
Attachments
Awesome! Thanks for doing that! Good catch about the polarity of the mid. That has been fixed.I made a simulation of the crossover to confirm what I think. I have a similar project with the 12"+5"+1"WG. If the midrange is not reversed you have the purple curve. Pay attention the 150b150 has a breakup peak at 1.5kHz, it can affect the treble if not well suppress. Here the 12O150 at 2kHz.
Hope this helps