finally, the Satori coaxial is now here

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andy19191

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Joined 2005
I have the previous generation R series 5" mid/tweeter which is good but a bit small. The SEAS is a better size but costs £450 compared to £150 for the KEF. The on-axis performance of the KEF is better but this is relatively unimportant if the off-axis performance is good. The standard range SEAS mid/tweeter is over £200 and seems to be roughly equivalent to the early generation KEF coaxials. I think SEAS may have been paying royalties to KEF for a while? The budget SB Acoustics 6" coaxial is £46 but is now going to made available to OEMs only with a MOQ of 200. Increasingly looks like we are being trained to accept inflated "DIY prices" for drivers.
 
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Marveloudio

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Joined 2004
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camplo

camplo

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Joined 2019
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For comparison
 
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Marveloudio

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Joined 2004
Just to remember - the MWBSOAT - Party is NOT over!

It has only just begun!

Little pause for re-orientation then new strategies will appear on the scene which you can prove for validity .... in the meantime , regarding intelligent strategies , long time ago I've read often books written by american author Jack Vance , here is one one of them : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Showboat_World

Not so much typical SF or Fantasy genre but somewhere down the magical road into something that wait's for us anywhere!

kind regards - The Rotten Five , Six or Seven! (dome midrange and ribbon tweeters are still in the ballpark)
 
b_force

b_force

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Joined 2004
oneworldconcepts.com/
Marveloudio said:
speakers without waveguides needs larger rooms(vertical!) and shorter listening distances plus proper EQ !!

medium sized coaxials are the best compromise! (cone acts as waveguide)
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Speakers without waveguides always suffer from worse directivity.
Pretty much all of them have a jump in the directivity (shown in the response from Technics above).

Unless you focus on a much wider directivity. Which will create more in room reflections.
 
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VoxCelestial

Member
Joined 2019
b_force said:
Pretty much all of them have a jump in the directivity (shown in the response from Technics above).
Click to expand...
It can be argued the KEFs also have a directivity jump at 2500 Hz. Basically, typical cone-and-dome speaker needs to somehow make a transition from 0 db DI at 100-200 Hz to a 8-10 dB DI at 10-15 kHz, and it's not obvious for me what is perceptually better: a straight line rising from 1-1.5 to 15 kHz? constant DI of 5 up to 5-7 kHz, then rising due to inherent piston directivity of HF dome?
IMO, Technics solution, while improvable, represent a valid terget, not necessary worse than more narrow directivity of waveguiding cone coaxial.

What is often not understood, even by major manufacturers, that even a flat baffle in conjunction with the cabinet is a waveguide, as discussed, for example, here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/loudspeaker-enclosures-are-waveguides.363630/
 
b_force

b_force

Member
Joined 2004
oneworldconcepts.com/
VoxCelestial said:
then rising due to inherent piston directivity of HF dome?
Click to expand...
This problem is described very well in John Borwick's loudspeaker and headphone handbook. (don't know the page, I am on holiday atm, I posted somewhere else on this forum at some point)

A good baffle certainly helps, but it's basically inherent to how a dome tweeters work. A well designed waveguide with the right crossover fixes that big dip entirely. Dutch and Dutch does this very well as an example.

A coax will always be a difficult compromise. You need a OB shape waveguide for nice constant directivity. Which is not the best shape for a good rigit cone. I also doubt if you can get a good high-end without a kinda waveguide structure KEF made.
Or you have to make the cone more flat like technics did, which isn't great for the directivity and often the breakup can be a bit tricky to work with.

This all to only tackle the vertical directivity.
 
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