Just an update on my spider-mod: I am currently waiting for a dry, warm day so I can go out and collect more spider webs: I intend to coat all my spare mechanisms with webs as well.
When I was writing the description above, I have only listened to a few songs and did not appreciate the full effect of the mod. Now I consider it anything BUT subtle. I have been going through my CD collection today, with my mouth agape most of the time.
It is hard to describe what exactly is better. I mean, it's not like "wow, there's more bass!" or "hey, I could swear the treble is cleaner now!". Rather, everything is more real: there is depth, there is air, there is texture... The sound is smoother, but at the same time more dynamic; it's direct and intimate, but never in-your-face. Oh, and guess what - I heard many details for the first time today
I used to do almost all my listening at the same, moderate volume because I disliked the somewhat shouty/harsh character of my system at louder volumes. After the spider-mod, I found I prefer to listen at a noticeably higher volume then before (+ 2.5dB), which not only sounds more realistic than softer volume, but also I never feel any shoutiness any more. So I think I can say that the spider-mod extended the dynamic range of my system in a way.
All in all, a fantastic mod, and what's best, it's virtually free
I was trying to think of an explanation for this surprising improvement, and I think it is mainly thanks to two factors:
- the rotating mass is much lower, which means less inertia, which means better control over the movement of the disc - obvious.
- the sticky silk acts as a sort of suspension on which the CD rides: firstly, it dampens vibration, and secondly, because the CD is not clamped from above, it has a small degree of freedom which - in combination with the centrifugal forces acting on the CD - may naturally smooth out the vertical movements of the disc.
It is my best explanation anyway
When I was writing the description above, I have only listened to a few songs and did not appreciate the full effect of the mod. Now I consider it anything BUT subtle. I have been going through my CD collection today, with my mouth agape most of the time.
It is hard to describe what exactly is better. I mean, it's not like "wow, there's more bass!" or "hey, I could swear the treble is cleaner now!". Rather, everything is more real: there is depth, there is air, there is texture... The sound is smoother, but at the same time more dynamic; it's direct and intimate, but never in-your-face. Oh, and guess what - I heard many details for the first time today
I used to do almost all my listening at the same, moderate volume because I disliked the somewhat shouty/harsh character of my system at louder volumes. After the spider-mod, I found I prefer to listen at a noticeably higher volume then before (+ 2.5dB), which not only sounds more realistic than softer volume, but also I never feel any shoutiness any more. So I think I can say that the spider-mod extended the dynamic range of my system in a way.
All in all, a fantastic mod, and what's best, it's virtually free
I was trying to think of an explanation for this surprising improvement, and I think it is mainly thanks to two factors:
- the rotating mass is much lower, which means less inertia, which means better control over the movement of the disc - obvious.
- the sticky silk acts as a sort of suspension on which the CD rides: firstly, it dampens vibration, and secondly, because the CD is not clamped from above, it has a small degree of freedom which - in combination with the centrifugal forces acting on the CD - may naturally smooth out the vertical movements of the disc.
It is my best explanation anyway
Teflon is non-sticky, which is exact opposite of what we want - not to mention it is extremely difficult to coat anything with it.
I was thinking of a Post-it note kind of glue. It is not necessary to have the coating on the entire platform, so perhaps cutting two glue strips from Post-it notes, tensioning them on the platform and finally taping the ends to the underside of the platform would work. Post-it glue is a lot weaker than spider glue, but it is worth a try I guess.
I was thinking of a Post-it note kind of glue. It is not necessary to have the coating on the entire platform, so perhaps cutting two glue strips from Post-it notes, tensioning them on the platform and finally taping the ends to the underside of the platform would work. Post-it glue is a lot weaker than spider glue, but it is worth a try I guess.
CD Turntable interface materials
I have been reading the dialog on various CD Turntable interface materials and there was some mention of thickness of the material potentially causing issues with the laser focus on the CD.
While there certainly is a limit to the up and down travel of the laser head travel to focus on the CD above it, double sided tape and other sticky interfaces that are not excessively thick will not be a problem for the laser servos to deal with. The travel in most laser heads is on the order of +/- .060" or greater and this one appears to be no exception.
That allows for a lot of experimentation on interface materials...so have at it.
I have been reading the dialog on various CD Turntable interface materials and there was some mention of thickness of the material potentially causing issues with the laser focus on the CD.
While there certainly is a limit to the up and down travel of the laser head travel to focus on the CD above it, double sided tape and other sticky interfaces that are not excessively thick will not be a problem for the laser servos to deal with. The travel in most laser heads is on the order of +/- .060" or greater and this one appears to be no exception.
That allows for a lot of experimentation on interface materials...so have at it.
I absolutely agree, normal double-sided tape should be fine as far as thickness is concerned - my previous comment was on the foam double-sided tape which is some 1mm thick, and would either severely limit the available focus travel or fail to work altogether.
My concerns with the ordinary double-sided tape would be its reusability and its glue strength - i.e. glue might be too strong, depending on the tape; probably thin strips of the tape would suffice - taping the entire platform might lead to difficulties with removing CDs.
Also, please remember that, so far, only the spider web is confirmed to sound great - your results with other materials WILL vary. Personally, I would try Post-it first.
@Dimkasta - the disc does spin up a bit with no puck, but because it slides a lot, the CD mech gives up before the disc reaches full speed. So yes, it probably would not take much to overcome the slip enough to spin the CD.
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That is what I was thinking with teflon or something similar
A thin layer should make the spindle a bit more rubbery to remove any slipping
A thin layer of rubber might do, but Telfon is what we use to make food not stick to our frying pans and things to slide easily. It is totally the wrong material, but your thinking is sound.
The question I am asking myself, is can we find a source of this transport with the ball lock retainer? I have seen them on other transports, but not this exact one. I think that is the ideal answer or to change out the magnet platform for one with ball locks. Then all this is just silliness as the ball locks won't add an appreciable amount of weight.
Example:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PORTABLE-...al_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item3a6955f04c
The question I am asking myself, is can we find a source of this transport with the ball lock retainer? I have seen them on other transports, but not this exact one. I think that is the ideal answer or to change out the magnet platform for one with ball locks. Then all this is just silliness as the ball locks won't add an appreciable amount of weight.
Example:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PORTABLE-...al_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item3a6955f04c
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Hmm you are right about teflon. I just remember some sort of tape that we used on plumping and I remember it being quite rubbery on the touch.
Anyway...
Perhaps some thin liquid rubber glue drops?
About the ball lock thing, if you go through the thread you will see that it was tested but not with good results.
Anyway...
Perhaps some thin liquid rubber glue drops?
About the ball lock thing, if you go through the thread you will see that it was tested but not with good results.
Maybe you are thinking of Latex?
I hope there is a good high quality puck option to be found.
Teflon tape is used in plumbing you are right about that, but it is slippery and gets crushed between the threads of the pipe. It does feel rubbery as it is elastic, but if you rub it between your fingers, it is very slippery.
I missed those posts about the ball lock. That still seems from a technical perspective to be the best answer. But, practically, almost all the commercial players use a magnet. So.... a magnet it will be for me.
I missed those posts about the ball lock. That still seems from a technical perspective to be the best answer. But, practically, almost all the commercial players use a magnet. So.... a magnet it will be for me.
CD Clamping
I looked for versions for sale of the transport that might have the 3 ball chuck and never found one. That leaves finding a donor 3 ball chuck from something with the same shaft size. The bigger issue though is then everyone has to be able to rig up something to be able to clamp on the motor shaft so you can pull the original CD Turntable and then press on said 3 ball chuck version...all without bending the motor shaft. It could be done, but not everyone is going to have means to do that.
I have powered up the Turntable motor and been playing with various means to clamp the CD. The $3 magnet I described works great and that is the fall back position for me...and if that is what I use, I will not worry about the "sound" of the magnet. In passing, RTV, a Silicone rubber sealer, is an excellent no slip surface on the CD Turntable. It is soft, but is durable and with occasional cleaning will maintain its gripping characteristics.
I also am playing with a simple disc weight that is centered on the CD Turntable tapper, similar to the way the magnet mentioned is centered. That also works...and there is no discernible vibration at the full motor speed, assuming the hole in the CD itself is centered in the disc. As noted, it is the CD variations that is the biggest contributor to vibration, but again, at the speed range CD's are turning the laser servos deal with the CD disc hole being off-center with ease.
I looked for versions for sale of the transport that might have the 3 ball chuck and never found one. That leaves finding a donor 3 ball chuck from something with the same shaft size. The bigger issue though is then everyone has to be able to rig up something to be able to clamp on the motor shaft so you can pull the original CD Turntable and then press on said 3 ball chuck version...all without bending the motor shaft. It could be done, but not everyone is going to have means to do that.
I have powered up the Turntable motor and been playing with various means to clamp the CD. The $3 magnet I described works great and that is the fall back position for me...and if that is what I use, I will not worry about the "sound" of the magnet. In passing, RTV, a Silicone rubber sealer, is an excellent no slip surface on the CD Turntable. It is soft, but is durable and with occasional cleaning will maintain its gripping characteristics.
I also am playing with a simple disc weight that is centered on the CD Turntable tapper, similar to the way the magnet mentioned is centered. That also works...and there is no discernible vibration at the full motor speed, assuming the hole in the CD itself is centered in the disc. As noted, it is the CD variations that is the biggest contributor to vibration, but again, at the speed range CD's are turning the laser servos deal with the CD disc hole being off-center with ease.
PC CD drives, 3 Ball CD Clamp
The vibration you hear and feel in a PC CD/DVD, etc, Disc Drive is due to the rotational speed...an 8x drive is running 1,600 to 4,000 rpm...which amplifies the imbalance of the CD, CD-ROM, or whatever media you are running. The 3 Ball CD Clamp is NOT the source of the imbalance.
The vibration you hear and feel in a PC CD/DVD, etc, Disc Drive is due to the rotational speed...an 8x drive is running 1,600 to 4,000 rpm...which amplifies the imbalance of the CD, CD-ROM, or whatever media you are running. The 3 Ball CD Clamp is NOT the source of the imbalance.