Thank you very much Chicco, this is a very nice "image" you have from me, thank you
My old friend Thanh..... your wife is very charming, you are a very lucky guys thanh.
Wake up in the morning and face this beautifull woman may be a nice experience Thanh....Oh...yeahhhhh!
Thanh, i made around 3.7 to 3.8K amplifiers...ahahahaha, but i never told you how many worked!
More than a half exploded in my face, other part worked very bad, some of them sounded terrible, and not more than hundred were considered good amplifiers.
Conclusion:
Big fat Charlie is a fast constructor
Big fat Charlie may be a bad constructor
Big fat Charlie produced too much bad amplifiers
probably Big fat Charlie construct things very bad, having many failures, mistakes and things alike.
Certainly, this one could be one of his failures...as Thanh did not find any compression.
So.... Big fat Charlie may be a good guy to read and listening, but may not be a very precise guy.... having enormous distance from God and the more precise guy's on earth.
Final conclusion....better to do by yourself everything, and do not trust completelly in no one...because humans have enormous failures, and Big Fat Charlie may be a human too..... with failures too.
Please, do not tell people that i came from Orion.....or.....you can tell them, they will never believe indeed.
regards,
Carlos
My old friend Thanh..... your wife is very charming, you are a very lucky guys thanh.
Wake up in the morning and face this beautifull woman may be a nice experience Thanh....Oh...yeahhhhh!
Thanh, i made around 3.7 to 3.8K amplifiers...ahahahaha, but i never told you how many worked!
More than a half exploded in my face, other part worked very bad, some of them sounded terrible, and not more than hundred were considered good amplifiers.
Conclusion:
Big fat Charlie is a fast constructor
Big fat Charlie may be a bad constructor
Big fat Charlie produced too much bad amplifiers
probably Big fat Charlie construct things very bad, having many failures, mistakes and things alike.
Certainly, this one could be one of his failures...as Thanh did not find any compression.
So.... Big fat Charlie may be a good guy to read and listening, but may not be a very precise guy.... having enormous distance from God and the more precise guy's on earth.
Final conclusion....better to do by yourself everything, and do not trust completelly in no one...because humans have enormous failures, and Big Fat Charlie may be a human too..... with failures too.
Please, do not tell people that i came from Orion.....or.....you can tell them, they will never believe indeed.
regards,
Carlos
I was thinking... and i could remember i have checked the schematic many times,
Checked transistors and all parts, voltages measured, VBes checked, current was normal both rails, off set was low.... and i listen to the Blameless and i felt strongly deceptive, i turn very nervous as i have read all Doctor Self informs, and all he said made enormous sense to me..... and the result was not good.
I remember Thanh, that i checked the passive parts too, to have sure the values were correct...and they were.
I checked the transistors once again.... checked if matched, and i found leakage using a 40 Mega ohms meter...could not find anything wrong.
The amplifier was listened with speakers (2) and i used a headphone...and sound not good, compression was clear, as dinamics disappeared almost entirelly...was alike an FM transmission...every instruments almost same level...even the wattmeter did not float too much the measurement.
I will be happy if you make the kindness to send me this blamelless schematic you constructed dear thanh.
nanabrother@yahoo.com
but...please...do not use this name...i have hard psychological problems with this name.... i can have some heart attack of some leakage of blood inside the brain.... this name turns me really nervous..... i think i have to make it again and again...to give more shots on it!
Symassym is wonderfull compared to that blame... i have constructed... and the one made it is not Doctor, and have not Self nothing name...humble and competente Michael.
regards,
Carlos
Checked transistors and all parts, voltages measured, VBes checked, current was normal both rails, off set was low.... and i listen to the Blameless and i felt strongly deceptive, i turn very nervous as i have read all Doctor Self informs, and all he said made enormous sense to me..... and the result was not good.
I remember Thanh, that i checked the passive parts too, to have sure the values were correct...and they were.
I checked the transistors once again.... checked if matched, and i found leakage using a 40 Mega ohms meter...could not find anything wrong.
The amplifier was listened with speakers (2) and i used a headphone...and sound not good, compression was clear, as dinamics disappeared almost entirelly...was alike an FM transmission...every instruments almost same level...even the wattmeter did not float too much the measurement.
I will be happy if you make the kindness to send me this blamelless schematic you constructed dear thanh.
nanabrother@yahoo.com
but...please...do not use this name...i have hard psychological problems with this name.... i can have some heart attack of some leakage of blood inside the brain.... this name turns me really nervous..... i think i have to make it again and again...to give more shots on it!
Symassym is wonderfull compared to that blame... i have constructed... and the one made it is not Doctor, and have not Self nothing name...humble and competente Michael.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
"Z" chip zoom... fast discrete chip construction.
I found those TIP41 and TIP42...all them "C", for 100 Volts, 6 ampéres and 65 watts dissipation (i do not believe)... speed is around 3 Megahertz - db roll of frequency.
Well, all those were bougth same day, same shop, and the gain variations are under 5 percent... they are almost the same..so...no need of equalization resistors...they will be installed in parallell, to be cheap...no stop resistors to avoid input capacitances, no emitter resistors, no diodes...nothing... a cheap Macro Chip, to use those units.
390 watts may the maximum.... so, they will fit one Symassym amplifier made for bass...even under 2 ohms loads (around 250 RMS... depends on supply) the transistor will hold the power as heatsink will have a direct fan over it, and whole enclosure will have one blower forcing air to go inside and one exaust fan to remove warm air from inside...all them with 7208 voltage regulators to reduce speed and wind noise.
Of course, capacitances in parallell may produce a slower result...well...to bass!!!....who cares?
Well...will return to work, there are many amplifiers to finish, as i want a multichannel amplifier, not only multi-channel but also multi-frequency amplifiers.
Well...i will go to produce my delirium...and delirate is optimum... terrible is to watch Television and see what is going on in New Orleans.
regards,
Carlos
I found those TIP41 and TIP42...all them "C", for 100 Volts, 6 ampéres and 65 watts dissipation (i do not believe)... speed is around 3 Megahertz - db roll of frequency.
Well, all those were bougth same day, same shop, and the gain variations are under 5 percent... they are almost the same..so...no need of equalization resistors...they will be installed in parallell, to be cheap...no stop resistors to avoid input capacitances, no emitter resistors, no diodes...nothing... a cheap Macro Chip, to use those units.
390 watts may the maximum.... so, they will fit one Symassym amplifier made for bass...even under 2 ohms loads (around 250 RMS... depends on supply) the transistor will hold the power as heatsink will have a direct fan over it, and whole enclosure will have one blower forcing air to go inside and one exaust fan to remove warm air from inside...all them with 7208 voltage regulators to reduce speed and wind noise.
Of course, capacitances in parallell may produce a slower result...well...to bass!!!....who cares?
Well...will return to work, there are many amplifiers to finish, as i want a multichannel amplifier, not only multi-channel but also multi-frequency amplifiers.
Well...i will go to produce my delirium...and delirate is optimum... terrible is to watch Television and see what is going on in New Orleans.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
Re: Great design, Mike!
Here's a good how:
http://sound.westhost.com/transistor-matching.htm
If you're asking why, I can only offer a general and partial explanation. The experts will have to chime in if you want detailed maths. In a circuit that uses a separate device for each half of a wave form (such as differential pairs), or for push/pull outputs, or for current mirrors, you'd like each device to respond like it's pair. Depending on what the pair is doing, this could affect DC offset or distortion. DC offset is a simple practical issue. Mismatch effects on distortion are more complicated to calculate, and can be compensated for with plenty of feedback. But one reads often, and it makes logical sense, that the lower the distortion before feedback is applied, the better the circuit will perform.
Sheldon
chicco_36 said:
Here's a good how:
http://sound.westhost.com/transistor-matching.htm
If you're asking why, I can only offer a general and partial explanation. The experts will have to chime in if you want detailed maths. In a circuit that uses a separate device for each half of a wave form (such as differential pairs), or for push/pull outputs, or for current mirrors, you'd like each device to respond like it's pair. Depending on what the pair is doing, this could affect DC offset or distortion. DC offset is a simple practical issue. Mismatch effects on distortion are more complicated to calculate, and can be compensated for with plenty of feedback. But one reads often, and it makes logical sense, that the lower the distortion before feedback is applied, the better the circuit will perform.
Sheldon
Good Sheldon...already printing to read once again those Rodd informations.
I already forgot...so...reading it again i will remember.
here is the image of the amplifier i dislike...the lamebless....i cannot publish the one, as is protected by rules and regulations..so, this is lamebless...having nothing related Dr Self amplifier (hehe)
Michael said will try to discover what happened!..he will study the amplifier and assemble it to check and correct...if needed.
regards,
Carlos
I already forgot...so...reading it again i will remember.
here is the image of the amplifier i dislike...the lamebless....i cannot publish the one, as is protected by rules and regulations..so, this is lamebless...having nothing related Dr Self amplifier (hehe)
Michael said will try to discover what happened!..he will study the amplifier and assemble it to check and correct...if needed.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
Michael, as i am happy with you, as you will construct Strangeness, i will invite you
To have some juice of Maracujá.... this wonderfull fruit is able to produce wonderfull and strong juice mixed with 2 litters of watter and suggar each fruit.
It cost around five units each dollar
Having two fruits...you will sleep for 14 hours guarantee...because this fruit put you calm in the middle of the battle you will be singing and dancing...hehe
But i am very happy, and will have two of that..because you remembered me that amplifier....grrrrrrrr!
regards,
Carlos
To have some juice of Maracujá.... this wonderfull fruit is able to produce wonderfull and strong juice mixed with 2 litters of watter and suggar each fruit.
It cost around five units each dollar
Having two fruits...you will sleep for 14 hours guarantee...because this fruit put you calm in the middle of the battle you will be singing and dancing...hehe
But i am very happy, and will have two of that..because you remembered me that amplifier....grrrrrrrr!
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
I am thinking how Germans will call the Maracujá fruit.
The pronouce is Mah rah cuh jah.... all open mouth letter "A"...but really.... may be very funny in German.
Maracuziertz
Maracuzerten
Maracuwiersen
Please, tell me the work Michael.
ahahaha...i am already laughing.
very strange those things!
regards,
Carlos
The pronouce is Mah rah cuh jah.... all open mouth letter "A"...but really.... may be very funny in German.
Maracuziertz
Maracuzerten
Maracuwiersen
Please, tell me the work Michael.
ahahaha...i am already laughing.
very strange those things!
regards,
Carlos
All rigth, i was thinking the pronunciation, this word is indian word, not common,
pronunciation.... very open mouth "A" letter pronouce...very strange, even to us....because are Indian names, from the ones had been here for many thousands years.... we, Portuguese and many countries mixed, we have 500 years old...a very new culture, and sounds strange to us too.
This fruit juice... extracted from the fruit...shaking it in the processor and filtering, as have hard black parts too.... mixing with Milk Cream and Condensed Milk (Nestlé Suisse...Milkmaid... remember?)... in equal portions and put to freeze...wonderfull ice cream...fast to produce and delicious...1 fruit will be enough... 100 to 200 mililiters.... around one american glass of juice with a can of Cream (Nestlé, non acid, without watter) and Condensed Milk...sweet milk(Nestlé auch!)
Please, tell me what you see, or much better, what you feel watching the Blame grrrr schematic.... send me direct mail, as there are a lot of guys that love this circuit...and to avoid disturb them..go direct mailing.
enjoy it...i am sure you will apreciate it... the icecream, naturally
regards,
Le Chef du cuisine...Carlos
pronunciation.... very open mouth "A" letter pronouce...very strange, even to us....because are Indian names, from the ones had been here for many thousands years.... we, Portuguese and many countries mixed, we have 500 years old...a very new culture, and sounds strange to us too.
This fruit juice... extracted from the fruit...shaking it in the processor and filtering, as have hard black parts too.... mixing with Milk Cream and Condensed Milk (Nestlé Suisse...Milkmaid... remember?)... in equal portions and put to freeze...wonderfull ice cream...fast to produce and delicious...1 fruit will be enough... 100 to 200 mililiters.... around one american glass of juice with a can of Cream (Nestlé, non acid, without watter) and Condensed Milk...sweet milk(Nestlé auch!)
Please, tell me what you see, or much better, what you feel watching the Blame grrrr schematic.... send me direct mail, as there are a lot of guys that love this circuit...and to avoid disturb them..go direct mailing.
enjoy it...i am sure you will apreciate it... the icecream, naturally
regards,
Le Chef du cuisine...Carlos
To Sheldon
Thanks for your explenation about matching transistors, I know why is inportant, just needed some schematic and how to idealy did the job. A lot of experts sugest that hfe matching is pointless and not accurate one.
Thanks for ESP link, I visit Eliot site on regular bases, but never found this particular page.
Thanks for your explenation about matching transistors, I know why is inportant, just needed some schematic and how to idealy did the job. A lot of experts sugest that hfe matching is pointless and not accurate one.
Thanks for ESP link, I visit Eliot site on regular bases, but never found this particular page.
Hi chicco_36,
Transistor matching is not pointless. Even Motorola indicates that matching outputs can reduce the THD of an output stage 10:1. In differential pairs it helps with DC stability, I have no idea about distortion as I haven't tested that. The other comments I've confirmed to be true over 25 yrs plus in audio service. I have had customers call back after taking them home and ask what I did to improve the sound. That's with no comments from my staff or myself.
Now, whether you hear it or not is another question again.
-Chris
Transistor matching is not pointless. Even Motorola indicates that matching outputs can reduce the THD of an output stage 10:1. In differential pairs it helps with DC stability, I have no idea about distortion as I haven't tested that. The other comments I've confirmed to be true over 25 yrs plus in audio service. I have had customers call back after taking them home and ask what I did to improve the sound. That's with no comments from my staff or myself.
Now, whether you hear it or not is another question again.
-Chris
Hi Chris,
Obviously we did not understand well. I know what is transistor matching, and I know of the benifites.one can just look in any transistor datasheet from OnSemi and there are informations about THD: unmatched output transistors 0,8%, matched 0,08% THD. My point is that matching with some ordinary unymeter can’t do much. More serious methods of matching with higher voltages and currents will give better results. I remember somewhere on this forum Nelson Pass stated that ideal matching will be when transistors are IN the circuit (amp) and then to measure. Hard method because one must do a lot of soldering and have a lot of nerves…
Can you tell me what are your preferred method and maybe some simple schematic?
I found some schematics for matching mosfets, but I’m interested only in bipolars.
Here is one example for mosfets.
Obviously we did not understand well. I know what is transistor matching, and I know of the benifites.one can just look in any transistor datasheet from OnSemi and there are informations about THD: unmatched output transistors 0,8%, matched 0,08% THD. My point is that matching with some ordinary unymeter can’t do much. More serious methods of matching with higher voltages and currents will give better results. I remember somewhere on this forum Nelson Pass stated that ideal matching will be when transistors are IN the circuit (amp) and then to measure. Hard method because one must do a lot of soldering and have a lot of nerves…
Can you tell me what are your preferred method and maybe some simple schematic?
I found some schematics for matching mosfets, but I’m interested only in bipolars.
Here is one example for mosfets.
Hi chicco_36,
Where it's critical, I put the power transistors in a circuit with a heatsink. I use a Data Precision 8200 to inject base current, current shunts to measure collector current. I have a thermocouple to make the thermal conditions similar. It's a real pain. Also, you need to run all the transistors to keep the heatsink around the same temperature across the entire thing.
I also have a Heatkit IT-18 transistor tester. Mostly I use that since, although it's low current, transistors matched by that method are reasonably matched. Bias currents are normally low (below 50mA) on commercial amps and this works well. Much better than just sticking them in. Measuring emitter resistor voltage drops I find they are close. I am measuring hFE. I have other testers that measure VBE drops and a curve tracer too.
For signal transistors in commercial service, the beta test in some DVMs are okay. I mean, this is overkill for amp service. Most people just "stick 'em in".
Don't get me started on mosfet matching. That can take all day, of course the bipolars can on the heatsink. Either type, the final test are the matched devices together on the heatsink. After soaking I measure the currents. A must with Counterpoints.
If you don't need to do this - don't. It's not worth it in many cases. Just use a relaxed method. It's been a few years since I suffered doing bipolars. Last year for mosfets.
-Chris
Where it's critical, I put the power transistors in a circuit with a heatsink. I use a Data Precision 8200 to inject base current, current shunts to measure collector current. I have a thermocouple to make the thermal conditions similar. It's a real pain. Also, you need to run all the transistors to keep the heatsink around the same temperature across the entire thing.
I also have a Heatkit IT-18 transistor tester. Mostly I use that since, although it's low current, transistors matched by that method are reasonably matched. Bias currents are normally low (below 50mA) on commercial amps and this works well. Much better than just sticking them in. Measuring emitter resistor voltage drops I find they are close. I am measuring hFE. I have other testers that measure VBE drops and a curve tracer too.
For signal transistors in commercial service, the beta test in some DVMs are okay. I mean, this is overkill for amp service. Most people just "stick 'em in".
Don't get me started on mosfet matching. That can take all day, of course the bipolars can on the heatsink. Either type, the final test are the matched devices together on the heatsink. After soaking I measure the currents. A must with Counterpoints.
If you don't need to do this - don't. It's not worth it in many cases. Just use a relaxed method. It's been a few years since I suffered doing bipolars. Last year for mosfets.
-Chris
Good informs Anatech..happy to see you...this is some graphic made by Michael
Where he compared Symassym5 with the bla less amplifier.
He told a lot of words i have not courage to repeat you here.
But i am sure not so good words...he will not assemble...as he has not 12 gauge, double barreled and not condition to shot the thing.
I am sorry, but i am happy to confirm, having informs from someone that knows much more than i know, this is some confirmation that i am not so crazy...only half crazy!
In this world.... who is not going to be crazy?... there are days that i feel some need to go to the streets and characterize me as some very poor, dirty and crazy guy.... a real lumnatic.... just to say terrible words against my society without the danger to be arrested inside a jail...and i was thinking to call the street people..
You're a thieve....yeah!... a thieve!!!!!... they are tollerant (police) related to mind disturbed guys
The problem is that enormous amount of guys will watch me...as we have a lot of those guys here...not too much different from other countries, the difference is only the proportion.
If someone decide to arrest all corrupt we have... the problem will be to decide the one that will hold the jail key.... and worst, to find someone to watch the one that have the jail key.... well, this is a result of last things happening here...our beloved President hardly surrounded by bad guys (that's what he told us!).
Venezuela President saying;
- Where's the US organization and US power related New Orleans.?... this way is easy..having already ocurred to say should do that, this and those.... very distant from the Hurricane is easy to criticise....he wants magic!...blah...blah...blah!...i do not like him... this guy has a lot of luck, as he is a wonderfull target, a he is bringing communism to South America, helped by the Mummy Island President that have not an US good electrical shaver.... Brazilian army will never agree with that...communism near us i think is difficult, we have a very social President silent about his old extremist ideas, also Argentina will move!...we are weak, but we are too many, and the quantity is enougth to surround them and say S-T-O-P.
Hard to keep a good mind watching all those things.... well...let's keep the ball rolling....
c'a marche (Carlos FM registered robbered trade mark)
regards,
Carlos
Where he compared Symassym5 with the bla less amplifier.
He told a lot of words i have not courage to repeat you here.
But i am sure not so good words...he will not assemble...as he has not 12 gauge, double barreled and not condition to shot the thing.
I am sorry, but i am happy to confirm, having informs from someone that knows much more than i know, this is some confirmation that i am not so crazy...only half crazy!
In this world.... who is not going to be crazy?... there are days that i feel some need to go to the streets and characterize me as some very poor, dirty and crazy guy.... a real lumnatic.... just to say terrible words against my society without the danger to be arrested inside a jail...and i was thinking to call the street people..
You're a thieve....yeah!... a thieve!!!!!... they are tollerant (police) related to mind disturbed guys
The problem is that enormous amount of guys will watch me...as we have a lot of those guys here...not too much different from other countries, the difference is only the proportion.
If someone decide to arrest all corrupt we have... the problem will be to decide the one that will hold the jail key.... and worst, to find someone to watch the one that have the jail key.... well, this is a result of last things happening here...our beloved President hardly surrounded by bad guys (that's what he told us!).
Venezuela President saying;
- Where's the US organization and US power related New Orleans.?... this way is easy..having already ocurred to say should do that, this and those.... very distant from the Hurricane is easy to criticise....he wants magic!...blah...blah...blah!...i do not like him... this guy has a lot of luck, as he is a wonderfull target, a he is bringing communism to South America, helped by the Mummy Island President that have not an US good electrical shaver.... Brazilian army will never agree with that...communism near us i think is difficult, we have a very social President silent about his old extremist ideas, also Argentina will move!...we are weak, but we are too many, and the quantity is enougth to surround them and say S-T-O-P.
Hard to keep a good mind watching all those things.... well...let's keep the ball rolling....
c'a marche (Carlos FM registered robbered trade mark)
regards,
Carlos
