During my 35 years hifi quest I heard some bad speakers...or should I say some bad sounds because I refuse to judge without comparing at the same moment in the same room and on the same electronics.
Nevertheless I remember some speakers comparisons at a friend's home between Tannoy (a tower with an unbaffled super-tweeter at the top, don't remember its name), Verity audio fidelio encore, Linn akurate 242 and diy Soup from Tony Gee. All these speakers suffered from one or more weakness but the Linn sounded harsh, very harsh...The Linn's french importer was present and when I told him my disapointment he evidently tried to explain that the room and/or electronics weren't adapted and that the speaker wasn't burned in...All things I knew weren't the right explanation, at least certainly not the main explanation,
Nevertheless I remember some speakers comparisons at a friend's home between Tannoy (a tower with an unbaffled super-tweeter at the top, don't remember its name), Verity audio fidelio encore, Linn akurate 242 and diy Soup from Tony Gee. All these speakers suffered from one or more weakness but the Linn sounded harsh, very harsh...The Linn's french importer was present and when I told him my disapointment he evidently tried to explain that the room and/or electronics weren't adapted and that the speaker wasn't burned in...All things I knew weren't the right explanation, at least certainly not the main explanation,
What i have seen being done here and around for OB systems, I would agree x10 that they would have serious issues, even worst than the horn stuff ..
I've heard way too many speakers w/ great reputations, and hated them...
Everything on the mezzanine @ RMAF, every year,
Granadas, Orions, any OBs for that matter,
Any BR I have yet to hear,
Fonkens, BVRS, lots of "suggestions" that others love, and failed experiments...
This type of thread serves to remind me that so much of this hobby is about our personal pereferences, and there is no one "right" way of doing things.
And (in my opinion) much of system performance is about synergy.
I really feel room, front end and electronics play such a larger part.
I spent some time last week, listening to different tubes, (which cost more than my entire system), in a far higher quality system than I'm used to hearing--
The differences were far from subtle.
If just output tubes (all of them highly rated) can "make speakers sound totally different," I'm really questioning how much of it is the speakers...
Everything on the mezzanine @ RMAF, every year,
Granadas, Orions, any OBs for that matter,
Any BR I have yet to hear,
Fonkens, BVRS, lots of "suggestions" that others love, and failed experiments...
This type of thread serves to remind me that so much of this hobby is about our personal pereferences, and there is no one "right" way of doing things.
And (in my opinion) much of system performance is about synergy.
I really feel room, front end and electronics play such a larger part.
I spent some time last week, listening to different tubes, (which cost more than my entire system), in a far higher quality system than I'm used to hearing--
The differences were far from subtle.
If just output tubes (all of them highly rated) can "make speakers sound totally different," I'm really questioning how much of it is the speakers...
All parts of the puzzle will cause a subjective change , be it front end , pre, amplifier , wires , cables et al . But nothing will change the character or the perceived quality of the sonics like the speakers.
Then you should spend some time at a "Speaker Shootout." I did last week and it really shows much difference the speaker makes. After a day of judging 40+ pairs of speakers, you learn how much of a difference they make. There is nothing subtle about it.
The source and amp do contribute, but the speakers are the biggest filter. Mostly for tonal balance, but also imaging and other things.
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I've spent more than a little time @ a few "speaker shootouts..."
And hearing the same speakers, with different amps, and different front ends; then in different rooms, have the same "thumb print,"
yet sound quite different, leads me to my opinion.
Yes, in my opinion, most speakers are "the biggest filter," they really are that bad, by far the biggest weak link in the system.
But always???
It's off topic, but on the other side of the coin,
has anyone ever listened to speakers they've never heard before, that changed their whole way of looking at/thinking about audio?
And hearing the same speakers, with different amps, and different front ends; then in different rooms, have the same "thumb print,"
yet sound quite different, leads me to my opinion.
Yes, in my opinion, most speakers are "the biggest filter," they really are that bad, by far the biggest weak link in the system.
But always???
It's off topic, but on the other side of the coin,
has anyone ever listened to speakers they've never heard before, that changed their whole way of looking at/thinking about audio?
system influence
Sure, when I first heard Lowther in a Bauhorn (if I remember) powered with some low power SET on 2A3's. Opened my eyes to high efficiency/SET reproduction of the music. Now I'm listening to high efficiencyy multi amplified horn (mids and up) system . You know JBL, Altec, Altec and Beyma stuff.
Chris
BTW I also heard the Avantgarde system at the Montreal show, it was horrible
Sure, when I first heard Lowther in a Bauhorn (if I remember) powered with some low power SET on 2A3's. Opened my eyes to high efficiency/SET reproduction of the music. Now I'm listening to high efficiencyy multi amplified horn (mids and up) system . You know JBL, Altec, Altec and Beyma stuff.
Chris
BTW I also heard the Avantgarde system at the Montreal show, it was horrible
Quad ESL57s. MB101s. Some early Dynaudio prototypes from Murray Zeligman (ca. 1980, when they were still SEN Labs).
I'm still waiting to hear the first horns that I could enjoy.
Sure. The big Magneplanar, the Tympani II and Audio Research amps. Circa 1974. I went behind the "folding screen" to find the violinist.
Then again 10 years later with the big Altec/WE/TAD/Iwata systems and puny SET amps. I was hooked.
On the subject of same speakers, different amps - one fun demo I heard years ago was Jean Hiraga doing his "Tube Museum" at a Paris audio show. His Altec A5 speakers playing a selection of old tube amps from the same source. Scott, Dynaco, Fisher, MacIntosh, etc. All sounded good, but all had an unmistakable flavor. Especially the MacIntosh.
Wasn't even 'HIFI'. Heard a lovely mesa boogie cab with a big, expensive and hot 100W+ EL34 mesa boogie tube setup which my best mate owns. Never really bothered listening to it until one gig I was setting up my whitelight laser and heard him play three notes. I just about crapped myself, the distinction and sound of silence between notes did something to me that nothing else has before. It got me on the tube bandwagon! Have never heard an electric guitar sound the same through anything, tubed or not, big, small, expensive, cheap, headphones, you name it.
Got me stuck in the tube world, bought some DIY tube books and discovered an old ecl82 tube amp on the side of the road
ain't looked back since, although tubes are not terribly (easily) suitable for a big sub project.... doh!
I have to agree about the Avantgardes. I hated them from the the day they came out and every year I give them a listen and nothing's changed. A really bad horn system from the get-go. The Classic Audio Reproductions with field-coil drivers are very good horn speakers, as well as the Cogent system. Some of the best tweeters I've ever heard have been horn plasmas.
The Orions for me were very disappointing; one of the worst demos ever. The MBLs were too boomy on the bass and screechy on the highs for my ears. Top of the line JM Labs are pretty mediocre as well.
John
The Orions for me were very disappointing; one of the worst demos ever. The MBLs were too boomy on the bass and screechy on the highs for my ears. Top of the line JM Labs are pretty mediocre as well.
John
Speakers that disappointed were Lowthers. So bad they put me off full-rangers for life.
Ones that changed my way of looking at speakers/audio: Tannoy LRMs and the first active speakers I heard properly, I think they were early DynaudioAcoustics BM6s.
Last but by no means least transmission lines.
Consequently I now have an active 4way system using Tannoy 3149 drivers with t/l bass and ribbon supertweet (that old Tannoy tweeter gets a bit stressed above 10k).
I would really love to hear these though:
ME-Geithain | deutsch
Barefoot Sound :: The MicroMain27
May be one day…
PS: First link doesn't work as hoped, was supposed to link to the english page for the 901k. Sorry!
Ones that changed my way of looking at speakers/audio: Tannoy LRMs and the first active speakers I heard properly, I think they were early DynaudioAcoustics BM6s.
Last but by no means least transmission lines.
Consequently I now have an active 4way system using Tannoy 3149 drivers with t/l bass and ribbon supertweet (that old Tannoy tweeter gets a bit stressed above 10k).
I would really love to hear these though:
ME-Geithain | deutsch
Barefoot Sound :: The MicroMain27
May be one day…
PS: First link doesn't work as hoped, was supposed to link to the english page for the 901k. Sorry!
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