Has anybody listened to a speaker that is very highly regarded, and sit there wondering what in the hell everybody else heard that I'm not? I had that experience over the weekend.
After hearing so much about the Sonus Faber Concertos, I decided to take a listen to them. What I heard amazed me. These were the most flat and lifeless speakers I've ever heard exept for cheap Best Buy type stuff. They didn't sound "bad", but the music just sat there and played. It never came to life. I played some Tom Petty, specifically Mary Jane's Last Dance. It sounded nice, but that was all. The guitars were there, the drums where there, and Petty was there, although his vocals were nasal sounding.
Next up to bat was a pair of Martin Logan Electrostats. These speakers really came to life, and at first I was very impressed. Guitars had a nice presence. When petty started singing, it was even more nasal than the Sonus Fabers, and by halfway through the sound I'd had enough and had to turn them down. They became fatiguing very fast.
So, I left the store, having listened to two sets of very expensive speakers, neither of which you could pay me to replace my old Boston T830s with.
Of course, across the street, I heard for the first time, just how absolutely stunning that same Tom Petty song can sound. I listened to some Source Technologies speakers designed & built by John Sollecito, and I was absolutely blown away. The guitars had a grittiness I've never heard. Petty's voice sounded real for the first time. The speakers disappeared and the band showed up.
So anyway... what are some speakers that you had high expectations for, but didn't wind up doing it for you?
After hearing so much about the Sonus Faber Concertos, I decided to take a listen to them. What I heard amazed me. These were the most flat and lifeless speakers I've ever heard exept for cheap Best Buy type stuff. They didn't sound "bad", but the music just sat there and played. It never came to life. I played some Tom Petty, specifically Mary Jane's Last Dance. It sounded nice, but that was all. The guitars were there, the drums where there, and Petty was there, although his vocals were nasal sounding.
Next up to bat was a pair of Martin Logan Electrostats. These speakers really came to life, and at first I was very impressed. Guitars had a nice presence. When petty started singing, it was even more nasal than the Sonus Fabers, and by halfway through the sound I'd had enough and had to turn them down. They became fatiguing very fast.
So, I left the store, having listened to two sets of very expensive speakers, neither of which you could pay me to replace my old Boston T830s with.
Of course, across the street, I heard for the first time, just how absolutely stunning that same Tom Petty song can sound. I listened to some Source Technologies speakers designed & built by John Sollecito, and I was absolutely blown away. The guitars had a grittiness I've never heard. Petty's voice sounded real for the first time. The speakers disappeared and the band showed up.
So anyway... what are some speakers that you had high expectations for, but didn't wind up doing it for you?
Re: Re: Ever listen to a speaker with a great reputation and hate it?
I wondered that at first... if it was just the acoustics and the equipment, but after the overly "there" Martin Logans, and finally some very nice sounding Vienna Acoustics speakers, I more or less felt that it was the speakers that I didn't like, not the rest of the equipment.fmak said:
The Sonus Fabers are good, and musical too. Suggest you hear them with different front end.
I have once seen/heard a bad presentation by Dynaudio at the Swiss high-end show. They used 5 pieces of their Evidence model (one special version as center) together with two large subs in a corner for a home-cinema demo.
Compared to the effort, the sound was disappointing, you could even hear the low end clearly emerging from the corner where the subs stood.
The following year they showed the smaller Evidence in a plain old stereo setup, which IMO was the best presentation in the show.
So you see that things can change a lot, depending on how well everything is set up and what source material is used.
But I can generally agree that it is very often not the most expensive speaker that is the best during the same show.
Regards
Charles
Compared to the effort, the sound was disappointing, you could even hear the low end clearly emerging from the corner where the subs stood.
The following year they showed the smaller Evidence in a plain old stereo setup, which IMO was the best presentation in the show.
So you see that things can change a lot, depending on how well everything is set up and what source material is used.
But I can generally agree that it is very often not the most expensive speaker that is the best during the same show.
Regards
Charles
zuki said:
Exactly!!! I used to work for a hifi shop in Tampa that sold Thiel speakers, and they all sucked.
One day I hooked up a Wadia CD transport directly to a pair of Mark Levinson 250 pound monoblocks. After that, I tried a whole Maridian front end, then Proceed, then Rotel, then Sunfire with the Wadia again.
All of these systems sounded great with Maggies, Snell, Egglestonworks, Wilson Audio, B&W, Linn, Maridian, ProAc, and even some Phase Technologies, but the Thiels just sounded like crap.
They seriously lacked bass, the mids where hollow and cupped, and the highs were way too laid back. Not only did I move equipment from room to room, but also the Thiels. No matter what I did, I could not get a good sound out of these things, and they were Thiel's top-of-the-line loudspeakers at the time.
Hell, my current setup right now with a pair of AR s20 bookshelf speakers and twin 15" dipole subs sound like a million dollars compared to the Thiels.
Which reminds me..... has anyone ever heard these little beauties?! With an Aragon 2004 Mk II powering them, they sound excellent!!!
Sorry, not trying to hi-jack the thread or anything.
The would be too long even begin, but I too had the same experience with the Sonus Faber speakers. They do sound absolutely wonderful with simple classical music like chamber music and such. Unfortunately they IMHO completely fall through with rock and other music with electric guitars and such.
The nasal sound experienced I don't get though. That must have been something with the setup, the cables, or the listening room. I haven't had that experience with them.
The nasal sound experienced I don't get though. That must have been something with the setup, the cables, or the listening room. I haven't had that experience with them.
It's probably not a popular opinion here, but I'm one of those people that does not consider cables to be an issue, and frankly, I don't even consider amplifiers to be much of an issue. Sure, all else being equal there can be subtle changes, but nothing to the extreme extent of comparing two different speakers.
People can say what they must, but until I see a cable alter a waveform on an oscilloscope, I'm not using anything beyond 12AWG $1.00/ft copper cable.
Although I don't consider my Denon AVR-1801 to be the pinnacle of audio reproduction, it's good enough to get me through until I find the perfect pair of speakers.
People can say what they must, but until I see a cable alter a waveform on an oscilloscope, I'm not using anything beyond 12AWG $1.00/ft copper cable.
Although I don't consider my Denon AVR-1801 to be the pinnacle of audio reproduction, it's good enough to get me through until I find the perfect pair of speakers.
Jim85IROC,
I use to feel the same way, till a several different friends brought buy several different cables. I my amazement both of the cable types made my system sound better.
On another cable note a friend brought by a digital cable he designed. I was using an impedance-controlled cable from Tara Labs, his cable sounded more open and more dynamic.
Being an engineer, I would like to know more about transmission line theory than I do. Having said that I've got to many other things to do too have fun messing with that.
Oh thanks Fred.
So do not knock it until you try it.
There are no perfect speakers or ideal amplifiers.
I use to feel the same way, till a several different friends brought buy several different cables. I my amazement both of the cable types made my system sound better.
On another cable note a friend brought by a digital cable he designed. I was using an impedance-controlled cable from Tara Labs, his cable sounded more open and more dynamic.
Being an engineer, I would like to know more about transmission line theory than I do. Having said that I've got to many other things to do too have fun messing with that.
Oh thanks Fred.
So do not knock it until you try it.
There are no perfect speakers or ideal amplifiers.
Jim85IROC said:
I have to say, even though my Yamaha RX-V740 reciever isn't the best thing out there, it IS on of the better sounding recievers that I have heard in a long time. But where the biggest changes in sound have been for me was changing out my old Carver TFM-35x amp for an Aragon 2004 mk II that I bought on Audiogon a few months back. In doing so, I went from 250 watts p/c @ 8 ohms to now 100 watts p/c @ 8 ohms.
My speaker cables of choice right now are a 6' pair of Kimber Kable 8TC's running from the Aragon to my mains which are Acoustic Research S20's, slightly modified with two bags full of 5 lbs of sand in the bottom of each enclosure.
This amp is simply amazing. It has a much wider and deeper soundstage, sharper, more detailed imaging, and a super natural tonal balance across the whole range. So in short, amplifiers DO make a difference!
Also, as an added note, I strongly believe that interconnects make a big difference as well. For the longest time, I was using Cardas Quadlink 5 interconnects throughout the whole system. Up until about a year ago, I switched over to some very interesting and inexpensive MagWire Nakeds found on Audiogon. These ICs opened up the whole system, almost making it sound like I switched out equipment! Bass is tighter, mids are even more natural and life-like, and the highs are extended without any sign of grain or harshness. And my system is completely "black" between tracks. There is absolutely no noise of any kind.
Think what you want, but more often than not, people will agree that amps, ICs, and speaker cables make a big difference in system performance.
Good sound is not easy to achieve and bad sound is often not the result of a bad speaker or single component. I am often amused by the remarkably bad sound in many dealers rooms, sometimes coming out of decent components.
As fot the Concertos they are very simple entry-level Sonus Fabers and offer more in the looks than sound department. Still, they can sound very good with Jazz and Classical provided suitable (tube) amplification is used.
As fot the Concertos they are very simple entry-level Sonus Fabers and offer more in the looks than sound department. Still, they can sound very good with Jazz and Classical provided suitable (tube) amplification is used.
I've sometimes heard quite excellent sound from the unlikeliest of combinations. I once connected my girlfriend's Energy Take 2 speakers (mini mini monitors + lousy sub) to a Gamut CD + Magnum Dynalab 208 receiver (+ mains regulation equipment) and *thoroughly* enjoyed the sound, so much so I left the system together as my main listening source for several months. Nothing like a near-point source monitor to communicate musicality.
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