That's geat news! I believe I still owe you info on the super-duper, hi-end approved, cryo'ed gold relays...
Cost-wise, I would shy away fm 20 (blue) leds -- though they'd look cool enough. In fact, I'm not sure I need a display even.
A remote control function, however, would be really nice. Haven't found anything reasonably priced myself...
Sorry, back again. Just looked at Mikkel's site and I wonder:
with all the little gadgets available, couldn't we end up with a remote controlled input & volume function in one (easy to install) package?
In that case, I'd even consider the cost of a display! (BTW, I've already installed leds indicating the input being used on my relay selector-- hence my reticence regarding a separate display )
Cheers
with all the little gadgets
available, couldn't we end up with a remote controlled input & volume function in one (easy to install) package? In that case, I'd even consider the cost of a display! (BTW, I've already installed leds indicating the input being used on my relay selector-- hence my reticence regarding a separate display
)Cheers
Gregm said:
That's geat news! I believe I still owe you info on the super-duper, hi-end approved, cryo'ed gold relays...
No, that would be me
My guess is that a complete 2-channel set based on my current attenuator schematic would be somewhere near €110.
A set would consist of 5 pcb's (a controller board and 4 boards for 2 channels (for 24 taps transformers)) including 26 relays (zettler az832) a programmed microcontroller and small parts (i.e. resistors, caps).
If 4 inputs are enough, then a stereo input selector board -connected to the same controller pcb- would increase the price with about 25€ (again including relays, pcb etc.)
Maybe people who are interested in the relay based attenuator, could contribute to the discussion in either Mikkel's or my thread, as this is not the appropriate thread (sorry for hijacking this one for a moment).
Regards,
Peter
Yes, why not? You have already seen the "big" input selector board I guess. I could also make a small 3- or 4 input addon board. That would probably cost about €15.Gregm said:Sorry, back again. Just looked at Mikkel's site and I wonder:
with all the little gadgets
That would make the total for the audio parts €85. The control board can be anything from €10 to €100
One of the small control boards I've made would cost about €15. A more advanced type with an LCD display for instance would cost a bit more. But what do you want?In that case, I'd even consider the cost of a display! (BTW, I've already installed leds indicating the input being used on my relay selector-- hence my reticence regarding a separate display
The prices I have mentioned above are based on one kit. If I get orders for more kits, I can buy the parts in larger quantities and get discounts. I just need an approx. quantity to calculate the costs.
I can also use Zettler relays like Peter (squadra) suggests. That would cut about €8 from the €85 mentioned above. I don't know if Omron relays are better than Zettler relays, but they are more expensive.
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen
Omron relays are the ones I referred to in my previous post. The ones for RF applications come in batches of 100 & cost EUR4/ea wholesale (+VAT, I suppose).
They are better, by far, than cheaper ones (~EUR2/ea retail) I tried on a friend's system. But as I don;t remember the cheapers' specs, that's hardly conclusive vs. the Zettlers.
fact is, I can live w/out a display, but would like a remote for the obvious two reasons:
1) I am lazy
2) I am very lazy
Cheers
They are better, by far, than cheaper ones (~EUR2/ea retail) I tried on a friend's system. But as I don;t remember the cheapers' specs, that's hardly conclusive vs. the Zettlers.
Basically, input & some vol indication. I'll have to attach the display to a thick, wooden front panel of my control box -- one way or the other. It's an old tube pre with wooden sides, glass top & metal bottom & back panel. I'm pulling out the active circuit, keeping the relays selector (Omron G5V) with their PS and taking it from there (i.e., I have a mutliposition switch to keep things ticking for now).
fact is, I can live w/out a display, but would like a remote for the obvious two reasons:
1) I am lazy
2) I am very lazy
Cheers
You could use either of the two small control panels I have made (one with a LED display and one with no display). They were not made for selecting inputs, but I could add a button you could press to select inputs with the encoder. From the remote it's no problem of course - no buttons needed on the board for that
I'll make an LCD display version of that board also - cost probably around €15-20.
You could also use a "special edition" of the Control2 board. I could make that including either two encoders or one encoder and up to 8 pushbuttons for the €29 listed on the page. That would include some nice extra features also
The LCD displays don't have to be expensive. You can get surplus 1*16 displays for around €3. The fashionable blue ones cost a bit more of course...
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen
I'll make an LCD display version of that board also - cost probably around €15-20.
You could also use a "special edition" of the Control2 board. I could make that including either two encoders or one encoder and up to 8 pushbuttons for the €29 listed on the page. That would include some nice extra features also
The LCD displays don't have to be expensive. You can get surplus 1*16 displays for around €3. The fashionable blue ones cost a bit more of course...
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen
Received my Seiden switches yesterday. Thanks, guys!
The remote relay switching kit sound great, too. Hope a group buy on a kit is somewhere in the future.
One question, though: I assume the relays would click for every step the volume control goes up or down. Is there any way to avoid this with a relays?
I'm sure most people wouldn't care about the noise, but some people (customers) who experienced similar volume control clicking on the Pathos integrated amps and preamps really didn't like it. They ruled out the purchase of those amps for that reason alone.
Just a heads up for anyone interested in using relays for volume switching.
Best,
KT
The remote relay switching kit sound great, too. Hope a group buy on a kit is somewhere in the future.
One question, though: I assume the relays would click for every step the volume control goes up or down. Is there any way to avoid this with a relays?
I'm sure most people wouldn't care about the noise, but some people (customers) who experienced similar volume control clicking on the Pathos integrated amps and preamps really didn't like it. They ruled out the purchase of those amps for that reason alone.
Just a heads up for anyone interested in using relays for volume switching.
Best,
KT
Not necessarily. Some relays switch so fast, that you can't hear the noise. They may be more expensive than the standard types though... Another option would be mute-before-switch.KT said:
So I guess I'll have to make something better
If I had any idea how much interest there was, I could start checking prices... It makes a big difference if you order parts for one kit or 100.
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen
Hi Mikkel,
I'm very curious to see how the kits turn out. I'm very interested.
I take your point about the switching noise and the muting. If the fast relays avoid this problem and sound good at the same time, then those look like the ones.
Actually, the switching noise I was referring to isn't the popping or thumping one would hear through the speakers. You are right, however, to address this issue in the design.
The noise I'm really speaking about is the mechanical clicking that you would hear as the relays snap open and shut. I think most people wouldn't mind this, but those of us considering relays should keep in mind that there will be a series of audible mechanical clicks as the volume is ramped up and down.
It's not so noticeable for source selection since you'd only click once to change your source. But a series of 4 to 10 fast clicks can be distracting to some people.
I remember giving demos of the afore mentioned amps, and while otherwise excellent amps, they did have this problem. Many of the customers would be really turned off when the quiet passage they were listening to was interupted by "click, click, click, click..." as they adjusted the volume.
Personally, it didn't bother me at all, nor did it bother anyone else who worked in the store, but I did notice that a number of people were sensitive to it. Just something to keep in mind if you're considering using relays for volume control.
Anyhow, I look forward to the relay kit offering. This should be a killer preamp!
And thanks to everyone who made this group buy possible. Greatly appreciated.
Best,
KT
I'm very curious to see how the kits turn out. I'm very interested.
I take your point about the switching noise and the muting. If the fast relays avoid this problem and sound good at the same time, then those look like the ones.
Actually, the switching noise I was referring to isn't the popping or thumping one would hear through the speakers. You are right, however, to address this issue in the design.
The noise I'm really speaking about is the mechanical clicking that you would hear as the relays snap open and shut. I think most people wouldn't mind this, but those of us considering relays should keep in mind that there will be a series of audible mechanical clicks as the volume is ramped up and down.
It's not so noticeable for source selection since you'd only click once to change your source. But a series of 4 to 10 fast clicks can be distracting to some people.
I remember giving demos of the afore mentioned amps, and while otherwise excellent amps, they did have this problem. Many of the customers would be really turned off when the quiet passage they were listening to was interupted by "click, click, click, click..." as they adjusted the volume.
Personally, it didn't bother me at all, nor did it bother anyone else who worked in the store, but I did notice that a number of people were sensitive to it. Just something to keep in mind if you're considering using relays for volume control.
Anyhow, I look forward to the relay kit offering. This should be a killer preamp!
And thanks to everyone who made this group buy possible. Greatly appreciated.
Best,
KT
One posibility is reed relays. Some say they are great for audio use - others say the magnetic field around the switch makes them unsuitable. That sounds a bit like voodoo to meKT said:
Most of the high-end equipment I have seen uses standard (noisy) mechanical relays though.
It doesn't bother me - I don't adjust the volume all the time. I set the volume and leave it.
I hope so - I'll know when the test board arrives.
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen
NEWS.............!
Hi All,
I can confirm that all the European transformers have been shipped. Brian will ship the others as soon as he receives them from S&B in the next few days.
Please be aware, though, that this is the slowest time of year for delivery service. Sorry, but these is nothing we can do to speed up the delivery process - Brian will turn them round as quickly as he is able.
More news as I get it.
Jon
Hi All,
I can confirm that all the European transformers have been shipped. Brian will ship the others as soon as he receives them from S&B in the next few days.
Please be aware, though, that this is the slowest time of year for delivery service. Sorry, but these is nothing we can do to speed up the delivery process - Brian will turn them round as quickly as he is able.
More news as I get it.
Jon
Building Thread
Hi,
I just put a thread there: ---> click <---
If the place is wrong an administrator will put it right ...
Cheers
Christian.
Hi,
I just put a thread there: ---> click <---
If the place is wrong an administrator will put it right ...
Cheers
Christian.
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