I like to use what I have on hand, so am wondering if an acrylic gel product (can be thinned to any consistency w/ water) will work for the pre-treatment (instead of modpodge) The product I have is called "Golden Gel Medium" Says it's 100% acrylic polymer.
the product website lists a bunch of applications for mixing w/ paint, coating painting to add texture, and then goes on to say the gels are nearly 100% pure binder, can be used for collaging materials, etc..
So, best guess as to whether or not I can use it?
I've put some on a paper towel, and left another smear of it on a piece of glass to dry, to see how flexible the finished dry product is.
(how firm is dry modpodge? semi-flexible, or hard and brittle?)
the product website lists a bunch of applications for mixing w/ paint, coating painting to add texture, and then goes on to say the gels are nearly 100% pure binder, can be used for collaging materials, etc..
So, best guess as to whether or not I can use it?
I've put some on a paper towel, and left another smear of it on a piece of glass to dry, to see how flexible the finished dry product is.
(how firm is dry modpodge? semi-flexible, or hard and brittle?)
I want to add the reason I'm treating my 6" ff165k's..
I purchased a pair of tiny ff85k's from Dave. Their small size causes some tonal deficiencies, but they are still quite impressive in that aspect. But..... There is something very special about them. More than any other speakers I've heard (and my friends and wife and 65 year old dad all agree) the sound jumps off of these. I guess that is what people mean by "sound stage" and "imaging". But you really do hear one instrument come from way off front left from where the speakers are, and another mid rear. Then the lead is mostly up in front of the speakers, a little to the right.. (or whatever)
I've heard the general blurred stereo image that any speakers can make, but these are something else. I was a skeptic while I was just reading threads, before I listened to these.
I am a little nervous treating drivers I am already comfortable with. While sure they'll be better, doing a/b comparisons is never easy.
I couldn't figure out the phase of my subs for a week.. test after test I kept questioning myself, and comeon.. that's a pretty obvious thing with a definite right answer!!!!!! I think I'll be able to tell right away next time though, now that I know...
I purchased a pair of tiny ff85k's from Dave. Their small size causes some tonal deficiencies, but they are still quite impressive in that aspect. But..... There is something very special about them. More than any other speakers I've heard (and my friends and wife and 65 year old dad all agree) the sound jumps off of these. I guess that is what people mean by "sound stage" and "imaging". But you really do hear one instrument come from way off front left from where the speakers are, and another mid rear. Then the lead is mostly up in front of the speakers, a little to the right.. (or whatever)
I've heard the general blurred stereo image that any speakers can make, but these are something else. I was a skeptic while I was just reading threads, before I listened to these.
I am a little nervous treating drivers I am already comfortable with. While sure they'll be better, doing a/b comparisons is never easy.
I couldn't figure out the phase of my subs for a week.. test after test I kept questioning myself, and comeon.. that's a pretty obvious thing with a definite right answer!!!!!! I think I'll be able to tell right away next time though, now that I know...
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As nice as the 165K's can sound in the right enclosure design, (BIB, Cain and Cain Abby, etc.) and they'll certainly go deeper and play louder without assistance, I think you might still miss some of the magic that the 85K delivers.
This delightful little driver is a bit of a hybrid in the Fostex series - a huge ratio of magnet/motor to moving cone mass, the UDR surround normally seen in Sigma and special edition series, and the high loft metal dust cap dome which appears to be attached directly the to voice coil former.
This delightful little driver is a bit of a hybrid in the Fostex series - a huge ratio of magnet/motor to moving cone mass, the UDR surround normally seen in Sigma and special edition series, and the high loft metal dust cap dome which appears to be attached directly the to voice coil former.
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i forsee some difficulties for me...any help here?
basically i dont think i can get most of the enable stuff, except PVA.
Ive experimented with pva doping paper drivers before and i agree that there is a limit to the amount that should be applied before any smoothing effect is replaced by dulling of transients.
I have a pair of speakers im planning to experiment with. They are visaton al130's, and aluminium coned.
my question is this:
can i apply small dots around half an inch away from around the edge, on the INNER surface on the cone, and could i expect to hear any improvements using this alone?
if so, what type of paint/varnish should i use as im either ignorant and dont know what DAMAR is, or i cant get it here in the UK. I would use PVA but i dont expect it would adhere to well to ally.
basically i dont think i can get most of the enable stuff, except PVA.
Ive experimented with pva doping paper drivers before and i agree that there is a limit to the amount that should be applied before any smoothing effect is replaced by dulling of transients.
I have a pair of speakers im planning to experiment with. They are visaton al130's, and aluminium coned.
my question is this:
can i apply small dots around half an inch away from around the edge, on the INNER surface on the cone, and could i expect to hear any improvements using this alone?
if so, what type of paint/varnish should i use as im either ignorant and dont know what DAMAR is, or i cant get it here in the UK. I would use PVA but i dont expect it would adhere to well to ally.
mondogenerator
Do not put ANY Damar or PVA on the aluminum cone, period. ALL of the fine detail will disappear. What you need are an inner cone ring set, likely very close to the dust cap and possibly partially on the dust cap, with one ring placed on the glue foot, on top of course. Another ring set out about one block width from the surround. Then another ring set about mid cone. This you will have to find with the "tap test" method. The most useful tool for this is the tip of the pen nib holder from the complete kit sent to you by Ed LaFontaine. You can contact him here
EnABL kit - diyAudio
I believe his kit is still under $40 and includes almost all you will need and based upon a couple of questions he can provide the additional materials needed as well. You will also end up with one or more ring sets on the dust cap itself, with a mid dome ring location also found with the tap test. There are a number of posts devoted to using this method to find where to place a mid driver ring set, to eliminate the resonance peak and dip at around 7 to 9 kHz that most cone drivers suffer from. These can be completely dispersed ,but you have to get some education first.
These additional materials are an ever sticky acrylic glue. You will almost certainly need this material for the backside of the cone, to kill the resonance that makes the drivers always sound like aluminum. Depending upon the material the dust cap is made from you may need to use it there too. Please look at this thread for treatment of a very similar driver.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...ng-impressions-techniques-37.html#post1842594
And finally, have you EnABL'd any other driver yet? If not, please purchase Ed's kit and begin to practice with the tools. Not doing so will absolutely guarantee that you will fail to achieve what you want. All of us on this thread and the listening and practices thread will be happy to help you succeed in making these drivers superb, but you will need to obtain the inexpensive tools and some time just learning how to apply them to a curved surface.
Bud
Do not put ANY Damar or PVA on the aluminum cone, period. ALL of the fine detail will disappear. What you need are an inner cone ring set, likely very close to the dust cap and possibly partially on the dust cap, with one ring placed on the glue foot, on top of course. Another ring set out about one block width from the surround. Then another ring set about mid cone. This you will have to find with the "tap test" method. The most useful tool for this is the tip of the pen nib holder from the complete kit sent to you by Ed LaFontaine. You can contact him here
EnABL kit - diyAudio
I believe his kit is still under $40 and includes almost all you will need and based upon a couple of questions he can provide the additional materials needed as well. You will also end up with one or more ring sets on the dust cap itself, with a mid dome ring location also found with the tap test. There are a number of posts devoted to using this method to find where to place a mid driver ring set, to eliminate the resonance peak and dip at around 7 to 9 kHz that most cone drivers suffer from. These can be completely dispersed ,but you have to get some education first.
These additional materials are an ever sticky acrylic glue. You will almost certainly need this material for the backside of the cone, to kill the resonance that makes the drivers always sound like aluminum. Depending upon the material the dust cap is made from you may need to use it there too. Please look at this thread for treatment of a very similar driver.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...ng-impressions-techniques-37.html#post1842594
And finally, have you EnABL'd any other driver yet? If not, please purchase Ed's kit and begin to practice with the tools. Not doing so will absolutely guarantee that you will fail to achieve what you want. All of us on this thread and the listening and practices thread will be happy to help you succeed in making these drivers superb, but you will need to obtain the inexpensive tools and some time just learning how to apply them to a curved surface.
Bud
Hello,
I will apply the EnABL pattern this weekend to FE127E and looking at the pictures I found that there are 3 ring sets in the center according to this pict: (I'm not referring to the middle dustcap spots).
There is one set in the main cone dustcap border, one set in the dustcap itself and one set in between them (in the black glue).
Should them be done during the first pattern work? It seems that they are alternating, that's correct?
thank you
Highef
I will apply the EnABL pattern this weekend to FE127E and looking at the pictures I found that there are 3 ring sets in the center according to this pict: (I'm not referring to the middle dustcap spots).
There is one set in the main cone dustcap border, one set in the dustcap itself and one set in between them (in the black glue).
Should them be done during the first pattern work? It seems that they are alternating, that's correct?
thank you
Highef
What you are looking at is a condensed set of rings. On these drivers, the glue is not always filled up to the cone break from VC attachment out into cone radiating surface. When that glue bead is missing you would have two complete ring sets, one on the dome base and one on the cone beginning. With the glue bead as full as it is in the picture you can put one ring on the glue and then use it as a common beginning for two rings, as shown, on the dome and the cone. In reality, for a three ring set, you should put a single ring up on either the cone or dome and offset the other two rings, as you place them on glue joint and adjacent surface.
The spots are there to eliminate the zone where transient standing waves, that arise and distort what would otherwise be a perfect flat compression wave as it arises from the cone / dome surface.
You do want to look at the pics again, there is another ring on the cone, just a bit bigger than the condensed rings and then the final ring, out on the edge near the surround.
Picasa Web Albums - Bud - Fostex 126 tr...
And, there is a mid dome ring too, one we added to the pattern sheet after the pictures were taken. I have attached that pattern sheet below.
As far as EnABL is concerned the 126 and 127 are identical drivers and both will benefit from the mid dome pattern ring set.
Bud
The spots are there to eliminate the zone where transient standing waves, that arise and distort what would otherwise be a perfect flat compression wave as it arises from the cone / dome surface.
You do want to look at the pics again, there is another ring on the cone, just a bit bigger than the condensed rings and then the final ring, out on the edge near the surround.
Picasa Web Albums - Bud - Fostex 126 tr...
And, there is a mid dome ring too, one we added to the pattern sheet after the pictures were taken. I have attached that pattern sheet below.
As far as EnABL is concerned the 126 and 127 are identical drivers and both will benefit from the mid dome pattern ring set.
Bud
That is a picture of an early FE127eN. Since then construction has changed and i am using a ring pair on either side of the black glue/gunck. I will try to post a picture later.
dave
this the stuff ? -
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Delta Sobo Craft and Fabric Glue - BLICK art materials
12414
Do not start. Having the kit is not enough!
I cannot find any information on that driver, can you provide a link please?
A generic EnABL patterns set will work on any driver but there are differences between whizzer and non whizzer drivers and they are important ones. Once I have some idea of what this beast is, I can provide some guidance.
Bud
I cannot find any information on that driver, can you provide a link please?
A generic EnABL patterns set will work on any driver but there are differences between whizzer and non whizzer drivers and they are important ones. Once I have some idea of what this beast is, I can provide some guidance.
Bud
Bud, the FE138eSR is sort of like an exotic version of the FE168eS than anything else.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/FE138ES-R-1.pdf
dave
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/FE138ES-R-1.pdf
dave
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