Happy New 2015 to all from this thread !
Hi Nino,
nice work and good result, congrats! Not many guys from 'audio' yard could write a software like you managed
On my version II board (with ak4118) I managed to change all the decoupling caps for the dac and receiver chips with Panasonic Oscon, SEP and SEPF type from Farnell. Also, I have made tests with the output op-amps, testing Burr Brouwn OPA134 PAG4 and Linear Tech LT1357CN8, both in DIP8 package, both fake-free.
Before to change the caps, OPA134 sounded more balanced, with plenty of bass and laid back character (highs well controlled, not on the exuberant side - maybe not the last word in transparency and 3d).
After replacing all ERO labeled caps with oscons, the best IC choice seems to be the cheaper LT1357CN8, to my surprise. The SQ gained extension in upper and lower registers, as well as in speed and transparency. Lower registers of the organ on the_Symphony No 3 in C minor - by Camille Saint-Saens/ Eugene Ormandy - conductor_ (Sony Classical) sounded in a way I never dream-off in my rig!
I could state, on my opinion, that this version II dac is a marvel 'out of the box', for the spent bucks. Changing the decoupling caps give a minor (but welcomed) change in SQ, compared to the change of the output IC, if one think at the investment difference.
I am using two separate mains EI transformers-pcb type, a mains filter, and the dac board was feed via spdif/toslink with 16bit/44.2 Hz from a CD transport.
I would like to thank to all reporting on this thread, and wish you a happy DIY year!
Hi Nino,
nice work and good result, congrats! Not many guys from 'audio' yard could write a software like you managed
On my version II board (with ak4118) I managed to change all the decoupling caps for the dac and receiver chips with Panasonic Oscon, SEP and SEPF type from Farnell. Also, I have made tests with the output op-amps, testing Burr Brouwn OPA134 PAG4 and Linear Tech LT1357CN8, both in DIP8 package, both fake-free.
Before to change the caps, OPA134 sounded more balanced, with plenty of bass and laid back character (highs well controlled, not on the exuberant side - maybe not the last word in transparency and 3d).
After replacing all ERO labeled caps with oscons, the best IC choice seems to be the cheaper LT1357CN8, to my surprise. The SQ gained extension in upper and lower registers, as well as in speed and transparency. Lower registers of the organ on the_Symphony No 3 in C minor - by Camille Saint-Saens/ Eugene Ormandy - conductor_ (Sony Classical) sounded in a way I never dream-off in my rig!
I could state, on my opinion, that this version II dac is a marvel 'out of the box', for the spent bucks. Changing the decoupling caps give a minor (but welcomed) change in SQ, compared to the change of the output IC, if one think at the investment difference.
I am using two separate mains EI transformers-pcb type, a mains filter, and the dac board was feed via spdif/toslink with 16bit/44.2 Hz from a CD transport.
I would like to thank to all reporting on this thread, and wish you a happy DIY year!
Attachments
Thanks Nino
Is there any relatively inexpensive dsd capable dac beside the es9018 ( it seems -at least the chinese dac es 9018 was not liked) or I just have to wit for akm 4495 varian ?
Is there any relatively inexpensive dsd capable dac beside the es9018 ( it seems -at least the chinese dac es 9018 was not liked) or I just have to wit for akm 4495 varian ?
Hi dexter,
I have DAC AK4399&АК4113 (http://www.yuan-jing.com/dacs-decod...-decoder-ak4399-wm8805-ne5532-optical-coaxial) and weiliang xmos (http://diyhifishop.com/xmos-asynchronous-usb-to-coaxial-optical-converter-24bit192k-wit-p-126.html), unfortunately, I couldn't adjust foobar or JRiver Media Center that DoP (DSD over PCM) worked. Perhaps, it because weiliang xmos doesn't support DoP. There is a new xmos version, with the new processor which supports DoP.
Xmos U8 Support DSD DOP USB Input Coax Fiber I2S Output USB DAC | eBay
But I don't know there is a support of DoP at Ak4113 or Ak4118 though Ak4399 supports DoP.
I have DAC AK4399&АК4113 (http://www.yuan-jing.com/dacs-decod...-decoder-ak4399-wm8805-ne5532-optical-coaxial) and weiliang xmos (http://diyhifishop.com/xmos-asynchronous-usb-to-coaxial-optical-converter-24bit192k-wit-p-126.html), unfortunately, I couldn't adjust foobar or JRiver Media Center that DoP (DSD over PCM) worked. Perhaps, it because weiliang xmos doesn't support DoP. There is a new xmos version, with the new processor which supports DoP.
Xmos U8 Support DSD DOP USB Input Coax Fiber I2S Output USB DAC | eBay
But I don't know there is a support of DoP at Ak4113 or Ak4118 though Ak4399 supports DoP.
Hello, there is this XMOS board I2SoverUSB - I2S over USB Audio that also outputs SPDIF and I2S and accepts DoP. I have used it in other projects and it sounds really good if fed by good quality linear power supply.
I'm planning to put one of them inside the chassis of our dual AK4399 DAC, if you are patient i'll let you know whether DoP works with this DAC or not as soon as i receive the interface and mount it.
Anyway, i tested another XMOS interface from diyinhk connected via I2S directly to both AK4399s (see previous posts) and i can confirm DSD files do play very well using Foobar..
I'm planning to put one of them inside the chassis of our dual AK4399 DAC, if you are patient i'll let you know whether DoP works with this DAC or not as soon as i receive the interface and mount it.
Anyway, i tested another XMOS interface from diyinhk connected via I2S directly to both AK4399s (see previous posts) and i can confirm DSD files do play very well using Foobar..
Hi dexter,
Dual AK4399 is not capable of DSD out of the box. According to AK4399 datasheet, DSD use same pins of PCM input pins thus, you have to make software and hardware modifications in order to enable DSD mode (or switching between PCM and DSD) with using a DSD capable external receiver like Amanero. It is not impossible but not that easy either.
If you are experienced enough to build your own solution, there are bare DAC-only boards with DSD input feature for such cases. You have to implement external I2S/DSD receiver (like Amanero) for yourself.
AK4399 DAC Decoder DSD Support PCM I2S DSD Signal Input 16 32bit 32K 192kHz | eBay
AK4495DAC½âÂëÆ÷£¡¹Ù·½±ê×¼µç·!I2S/DSDÐźÅÊäÈ룡³ÉÆ·°å£¡-ÌÔ±¦Íø
Regards.
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Many thanks Wolf For the reply.
cmiiw
I think the suggested board also change dsd stream into pcm
plus the cost is rather high
I really like to hear dsd file without any conversion
cmiiw
I think the suggested board also change dsd stream into pcm
plus the cost is rather high
I really like to hear dsd file without any conversion
The only way using this DAC is bypassing AK4113 via direct I2S connection between an USB to I2S board and AK4399s, as i tested a few posts ago.
But it would be much useful to have a modified microcontroller to switch between AK4399 input modes: the module NinoSimona just realized is very interesting for that purpose...
Hi Terranuigma
many thanks for the reply and suggestion
have you made a comparison between dsd and pcm?
I'm wondering is there any significant difference between pure dsd and dsd -pcm
I compared (assumed same mastering) iso image vs pcm 24/192
despite dsd downsampling (176.4)
i think i heard a smoother presentation and less sibilance from iso vs pcm
many thanks for the reply and suggestion
have you made a comparison between dsd and pcm?
I'm wondering is there any significant difference between pure dsd and dsd -pcm
I compared (assumed same mastering) iso image vs pcm 24/192
despite dsd downsampling (176.4)
i think i heard a smoother presentation and less sibilance from iso vs pcm
Luca,
thank you for the suggestions
I'm waiting patiently for your result
do you have to cut a trace to disable ak 4118 receiver? or you just paralel it?
adding controller is beyond my capabilty, i'll be pulling my thin hair trying to add that
Sound quality wise is there any difference between dsd and pcm?
best rgds
thank you for the suggestions
I'm waiting patiently for your result
do you have to cut a trace to disable ak 4118 receiver? or you just paralel it?
adding controller is beyond my capabilty, i'll be pulling my thin hair trying to add that
Sound quality wise is there any difference between dsd and pcm?
best rgds
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Cutting traces is not needed, but you'll have to desolder one end of the 4+4 input resistors just before AK4399 chips and raise those end, where you can solder I2S wires. More, if you want to save SPDIF and Toslink inputs you will need a multiplexer to switch between I2S and AK4118 inputs.
Not having a suitable modded microcontroller, i think you won't be able to reproduce native DSD but only DoP. Sound results are good anyway, a bit better than normal PCM in my experience.
Native DSD is still something better, but i can't hear an extraordinary difference - maybe a bit wider and more detailed sound, but nothing to cry for. Please consider that sound from I2S connection is better than sound from SPDIF anyway, even on PCM files: that difference seems greater to me than the difference between DoP and DSD files. But surely it heavily depends on the files you're reproducing.
For my ears, a quality USB-to-SPDIF input is good enough (using this DAC properly modded, it is better than DSD from many under-1K$ DACs), so i'm towards fitting in the case an XMOS-based USB board that can output both SPDIF and I2S. I plan to connect SPDIF output to AK4113 for now; maybe later, if i can get/build a proper modded microcontroller, i will connect I2S output directly to AK4399 (as i did in my test).
Another very interesting but not too expensive solution (around twice the price of this full-modded-DAC) could be ES9018-based Buffalo III from Twisted Pear Audio, that needs an easy DIY work to build and sounds ranging from quite good to extraordinary, depending on implementation. It can play DSD files at full res by I2S and SPDIF sources and you can build it as you want, spending more or less money depending on the configuration you choose.
The sound it produces is different from AK4399, anyway, less warm and analogue but more precise, neutral and calm: that's why it really shines using tubes output.
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DoP not conversion is a data transfer of DSD in PCM frames:
DoP open Standard | DSD-Guide.com
But I not the rights of Ak4399 don't support DoP:
"The D/P bit controls PCM/DSD mode"
I am not sure about that: there are AK4399 based hifi components on the market that accept DoP data streams, so i think in some way AK4399 can support DoP...
Unless they convert it to simple PCM before the chips, but i find it unlikely.
Anyway, when i tested the DAC via direct I2S connection using diyinhk XMOS board, it played DSD files (using Foobar2000 on my PC). I didn't switch DSD mode in AK4399s (obviously they were still in software mode), so i think they were playing DoP.
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Guys...
Stop decoupling power lines without scope....
Oscon SEP or SEPC (47-100uf)paralel with 104 ceramic one...is *oscillator* at 80 or 150khz
Green line is oscon 100uf in paralel with 1206 x7r 100nf ceramic cap
Blue one oscon 100uf in line with leaded 4 turns ferrite paralel with 1206 x7r 100nf ceramic cap.
You can see at 150khz 60db difference in noise attenuation.
Stop decoupling power lines without scope....
Oscon SEP or SEPC (47-100uf)paralel with 104 ceramic one...is *oscillator* at 80 or 150khz
Green line is oscon 100uf in paralel with 1206 x7r 100nf ceramic cap
Blue one oscon 100uf in line with leaded 4 turns ferrite paralel with 1206 x7r 100nf ceramic cap.
You can see at 150khz 60db difference in noise attenuation.
Attachments
That's true about bypassing oscons, they don't like it.
The rest of the red wima can be improved easily and economically by finding better film and foil caps as well, although they can be challenging to fit on the board even in a .01uf value.
Another effective and economical upgrade is some basic line conditioning, try searching for shunyata power diy, and you can either buy a proper one or diy.
The rest of the red wima can be improved easily and economically by finding better film and foil caps as well, although they can be challenging to fit on the board even in a .01uf value.
Another effective and economical upgrade is some basic line conditioning, try searching for shunyata power diy, and you can either buy a proper one or diy.
Luca
please look at this
New Gustard U12 Xmos USB Audio Class 2 0 Digital Interface 0 1ppm DAC 32bit 384K | eBay
the device has i2s o/p,
what's your thought about it?
best rgds
please look at this
New Gustard U12 Xmos USB Audio Class 2 0 Digital Interface 0 1ppm DAC 32bit 384K | eBay
the device has i2s o/p,
what's your thought about it?
best rgds
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