True...a bulb in the feedback leg of a wein oscillator is an excellent way to stablize a steady state oscillation.
It also makes a very effective current limiting (read compression) device to a driver. I did say it was clever,but, it also makes the audio signal non-linear, ie, distorted , and gives the impression of playing "louder" than they actually are. Dishonest at best, criminal ($700 a pair!!!!) at worst.
Yah...dubious. Knocking on a hollow door was less resonant than that "cabinet".
The 901's were/are the flagship, and fit a niche that no other speakers do. The rest of the _01 line is pure marketing tripe...period.
What really got my goat about Bose is the one single model we sold - can't remember the number but it was the triangular shaped box with twin 6" bass/mids and two 50 cent "tweeters". What really made it sound superior was the BRICK they placed in the bottom of the enclosure to ensure the cabinet didn't topple over.
Still, I sold more of those than any other brands we had in the store. Go figure.
I would have to say though, the best product Bose EVER came out with was the small portable self-powered models. I can't recall the name of them (Power Partners??) but I bought them back in the 80's and still have them. They sound great for what they were designed for - great output for their size.
Mark
Still, I sold more of those than any other brands we had in the store. Go figure.
I would have to say though, the best product Bose EVER came out with was the small portable self-powered models. I can't recall the name of them (Power Partners??) but I bought them back in the 80's and still have them. They sound great for what they were designed for - great output for their size.
Mark
This is a good point made by Kelticwizard. I read time & time agian that speaker designing is a series of trade-offs. When the 901s were developed (1970's???) the goal (I believe) was to get the feeling of live sound. Bose approach was "direct/reflecting". Some poeople really like this sound and some hate it. That is what I gather from reading reviews.
my cousin had a pair pof bose 301 (in the mid 80s). about 10 years later he told me that they dont wrk too well. i came over and opened them and found that the foam surround had detiorated. I got replacement woofers from A&S for $7 each. The 2 cone tweeters if i remember were $1.50 each but we did not need those.
If the woofers cost $7 in retail wht would they cost bose in wholesale?
even in retail the woofers and tweeter cost $10. the XO was a single electrolytic cap in series with the tweeter. my guess is the Raw material cost for a pair would be less than $50. Add marketing costs and my guess is that Bose's price to the whole seller would be in the order of $150.
The wholeseller sold the speakers to the retailler at somewhere around $200. The retailler sold them to my cousin at $300/pr. This is 6x RM.
Joe Joesph' Pearl speakers sell for about $20,000. I do not think his raw material cost is anywhere close to $3000/pr. So by that logic Bose if actually offering a better Selling Price to Raw material cost ratio than Joesph Audio and I would guess Sonus Faber's Homage at $40,000 per pair, or Audio Physic's Kronus at $65,000 per pair, or JM Lab's Nova Utopia at $40,000 per pair etc.... would have a Raw Material cost that is less than 1/6th the selling price.
Dont get me wrong I am very impressed by the Pearl (named afteer his mother in law) and think Joe is a very nice person. why even Totem's $1000 rainmaker would have Raw material content in the range of $200 and I consider them a great value.
How many of us have cloned the Watt Puppy? What did it cost us? The latest incarnation cost over $20,000 per pair. My biiamped lookalikes cost less than $1200 (2x focal 8" 8N515, 1x Audax HM170Z0, and 1 x Morel MDT 33). $600 for the drivers. $500 for the cabinets and XO. and add another $100 for glue, terminals, wire, etc..btw i did get a bit lucky with the drivers (audax mid for free).
My sister is a fan of B&O. She recently bought a BeoCenter 2 for about $4000. What do you think the cost of the Raw materials for this system is?
I am not found of bose's sound quality but many many of my friends swear by it and are willing to pay the price asked. Why chastise bose?
If the woofers cost $7 in retail wht would they cost bose in wholesale?
even in retail the woofers and tweeter cost $10. the XO was a single electrolytic cap in series with the tweeter. my guess is the Raw material cost for a pair would be less than $50. Add marketing costs and my guess is that Bose's price to the whole seller would be in the order of $150.
The wholeseller sold the speakers to the retailler at somewhere around $200. The retailler sold them to my cousin at $300/pr. This is 6x RM.
Joe Joesph' Pearl speakers sell for about $20,000. I do not think his raw material cost is anywhere close to $3000/pr. So by that logic Bose if actually offering a better Selling Price to Raw material cost ratio than Joesph Audio and I would guess Sonus Faber's Homage at $40,000 per pair, or Audio Physic's Kronus at $65,000 per pair, or JM Lab's Nova Utopia at $40,000 per pair etc.... would have a Raw Material cost that is less than 1/6th the selling price.
Dont get me wrong I am very impressed by the Pearl (named afteer his mother in law) and think Joe is a very nice person. why even Totem's $1000 rainmaker would have Raw material content in the range of $200 and I consider them a great value.
How many of us have cloned the Watt Puppy? What did it cost us? The latest incarnation cost over $20,000 per pair. My biiamped lookalikes cost less than $1200 (2x focal 8" 8N515, 1x Audax HM170Z0, and 1 x Morel MDT 33). $600 for the drivers. $500 for the cabinets and XO. and add another $100 for glue, terminals, wire, etc..btw i did get a bit lucky with the drivers (audax mid for free).
My sister is a fan of B&O. She recently bought a BeoCenter 2 for about $4000. What do you think the cost of the Raw materials for this system is?
I am not found of bose's sound quality but many many of my friends swear by it and are willing to pay the price asked. Why chastise bose?
Bose
My View on Bose is Both Good and Bad.
I think of them like I think of Mcdonalds hamburgers.
Do Mcdonalds have the best tasting burgers around? .. NO. I am sure there are many other places to get a good burger.
People that want a quality burger won't go to Mcdonalds, they will go to a nice cafe and order a fesh gourmet burger and have it with a imported beer and pay $15.00 for it.
Bose is about marketing, they mass produce stuff that makes sound, makes it loud. And markets it to the masses.
They make a heap of $$ selling this stuff, just like mcDonalds.
So as for their marketing, they are great.
As for sound, you can do alot better with your money.
My View on Bose is Both Good and Bad.
I think of them like I think of Mcdonalds hamburgers.
Do Mcdonalds have the best tasting burgers around? .. NO. I am sure there are many other places to get a good burger.
People that want a quality burger won't go to Mcdonalds, they will go to a nice cafe and order a fesh gourmet burger and have it with a imported beer and pay $15.00 for it.
Bose is about marketing, they mass produce stuff that makes sound, makes it loud. And markets it to the masses.
They make a heap of $$ selling this stuff, just like mcDonalds.
So as for their marketing, they are great.
As for sound, you can do alot better with your money.
hi
bose is marketing gimmickry to people who really have not heard a better choice
mc donalds = marking genius
in my openion bose is just too low to be equated to mc donalds
as far as my knowledge goes
each and every mc donalds outlet is essentially a franchise ,
mc donalds only takes 1 % of the sales
but you have to do every thing his way - he teaches you how to make all the stuff in the menu , may be even source it
you sell it in his brand name - give him 1 %
but with over 3000 outlets plus worl wide the profit is 3000 %
but we must think of him when he had this simple idea and had only a hand ful of franchisee
in another post attention was drawn to the fact that some of his stuff sounds good 101 s etc. - I had posted earlier a Myer will blow them away and is smaller
Suranjan
bose is marketing gimmickry to people who really have not heard a better choice
mc donalds = marking genius
in my openion bose is just too low to be equated to mc donalds
as far as my knowledge goes
each and every mc donalds outlet is essentially a franchise ,
mc donalds only takes 1 % of the sales
but you have to do every thing his way - he teaches you how to make all the stuff in the menu , may be even source it
you sell it in his brand name - give him 1 %
but with over 3000 outlets plus worl wide the profit is 3000 %
but we must think of him when he had this simple idea and had only a hand ful of franchisee
in another post attention was drawn to the fact that some of his stuff sounds good 101 s etc. - I had posted earlier a Myer will blow them away and is smaller
Suranjan
I didn't read all the posts on this topic but I want to give you my thoughts on the 901 (especially the technical aspect of the system).
For me there's one rule you shouldn't break when designing loudspeakers, NEVER WIRE WOOFERS IN SERIES!
Why? you may ask (I did explain it in another topic).
The thing is, series wiring will work when the woofer drivers are EXACTLY the same. We all know that woofers will allways have tiny differences (cone mass, suspension stiffnes, etc. all the mechanical stuff). This will end in totally different impedance characteristics, especially at the Fs! The result with series wiring will be that power distribution between the drivers won't be equal. Parallel wiring doesn't have this problem.
Can you imagine 8 drivers(woofers) that all have a different power distribution AND are placed in ONE cabinet?
The bassreponse of a (multiple)serie wired system will be sluggish.
You can wire mid and high drivers in series because they don't work at their Fs.
One trick to (not totally)avoid the problem is to add a resistor (of a certain value) parallel to each woofer. This will correct their impedance mismatch.
For me there's one rule you shouldn't break when designing loudspeakers, NEVER WIRE WOOFERS IN SERIES!
Why? you may ask (I did explain it in another topic).
The thing is, series wiring will work when the woofer drivers are EXACTLY the same. We all know that woofers will allways have tiny differences (cone mass, suspension stiffnes, etc. all the mechanical stuff). This will end in totally different impedance characteristics, especially at the Fs! The result with series wiring will be that power distribution between the drivers won't be equal. Parallel wiring doesn't have this problem.
Can you imagine 8 drivers(woofers) that all have a different power distribution AND are placed in ONE cabinet?
The bassreponse of a (multiple)serie wired system will be sluggish.
You can wire mid and high drivers in series because they don't work at their Fs.
One trick to (not totally)avoid the problem is to add a resistor (of a certain value) parallel to each woofer. This will correct their impedance mismatch.
Two or three years ago AudioXpress published an article where the above proposition was actually tested. The result was that it's not nearly so bad as supossed. I don't have my back copies but if someone who kept theirs can find out which issue this was in and post that here in case it is of interest.
DVC subs may be another matter as well. Linkwitz's dipole sub wires each pair of dual coils in series.
None of this changes "NEVER" to "ALWAYS", of course. But maybe "NEVER" should be replaced with "normally one dioesn't".
PS: I just stick with my Magnapans as they came out of the box and don't really care how anyone wires up their cones.
Nonetheless, I tend to be suspicious of either "NEVER" or "ALWAYS". (Unless it's the one about never stick your finger in the light socket while grasping a cold water pipe withe other hand.
Can you imagine 8 drivers(woofers) that all have a different power distribution AND are placed in ONE cabinet?
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i've the pleasure of dismantling a bose 901
the drivers have separate enclosures
(made of plastic) in whatever series
this one hapend to be
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i've the pleasure of dismantling a bose 901
the drivers have separate enclosures
(made of plastic) in whatever series
this one hapend to be
Well well, Bose did their homework with the enclosure. Mechanically they won't interfere with eachother then, but, I still would choose parallel over series wiring (or make parallel/series pairs in multiple driver enclosures)
series wiring a DVC driver is no problem because both windings share the same mechanical properties.
sam9 said:
Ofcourse B&O is not about audio and neither is Bose. Now you get the idea.
When you buy Bose you get a brand name. If you look at JD Power's ratings Mercedes Benz ranks way down in Service and Satisfaction and even i fit and finish Lexus, Infinity, etc. out rank it. there is no logical reason to buy a Benz but many people do. it is a matter of branding.
Most "audiophiles" dont buy bose. some of them i'm sure dont buy bose because doing so would affect their "audiophile" status. See branding at work again.
Next time you buy anything intropect on your purchase. you will see branding (however subtle it is) is at work.
Thats what I thought so too... patriotic reasons... Also high end audio is the hobby of relatively rich people or those with large consumable discretionary income... both found in probably less than 1% in India. People have higher priorities. There will only be a select few (like you) who know good audio..
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