Since you quoted my post so I assume you are referring to me as the "theorist" but then the you wrote "the thread's theorists opining that a 4-bearing carriage would only travel on 3 bearings." I have to assume I am NOT one of the "theorists" because I did not make such comment so I am confused by the point of it all. I am neither a theorists nor practitioner, just someone here to educate myself but made the unfortunate choice of commenting without BUILDING anything (Not that I don't want to but I am limited by my lack of tools, skills, and, most importantly, time as most of it is consumed by repairing tube amps!) and my admittedly poor choice of words about "not really care about the result" is misguided. Of course I care about the result as no one is as hateful of tracking distortion as I am, to the point that I now listen to CD more!
I'm one of the earliest champions of Colin's brilliant design and contributed pictures of commercial and experimenter's similar designs to generate further interest. I merely pointed out there's a sense of impatience in this thread as if there's a deadline to catch or something. Can't forum members chime in on a topic as broad as the title of this thread "DIY linear tonearm"? This is a hobbyist forum, isn't it? I will refrain from comments from now on but will continue to read with interest as some of the completed results are truly impressive, including yours too, John.
Niffy, awesome creation!
.
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Dear DirectDriver,
If indeed you were 'here' early on, you can identify the individual who opined the '3-out-of-4 bearing only theory' by accessing my last email to this thread prior to what you've responded to above. Of course that was some time and 'pages' back. I had just reported my extensive, and somewhat controlled empirical testing of the reliability of the VTF with the 'Alternate Method' low mass carriage I'd fabricated from balsa and an Easton aluminum/carbon fiber arrow shaft.
You do remember that 'empirical science report' of mine don't you? It had actual 'numbers' in it. My conclusion based upon actual testing was that VTF reliability was reasonable - sort of. Mr. Fremer, of "Stereophile" recently reported in print very recently that he heard a significant improvement in phono cartridge reproduction (of what he was reviewing) when increasing the tracking force from 1.72g to 1.75g.
My, my, a 0.03g VTF increase being significant to Golden Ears (with a very fancy cartridge indeed). Go back and look at my numbers in that email ... read 'em and weep.
This design will have to have a whole lot more going for it than VTF reliability (meaning the inconsistency of VTF from one needle drop to the next). Then again, the photos I've supplied to date seem to show that I'm 'all in'. DirectDriver, believe me, I want my tonearm to be very wonderful indeed ... but I've never been too good at lying to myself. All that research science training about paying attention to reality, don't you know?
Check out that last old email of mine, months ago, to this thread and you'll get a line on the 'theory' about 3-bearing tracking in a 4-bearing carriage.
Ad Astra,
John
I think you're mistaken me with someone else. I actually had to do a google search to know whom you're talking about! You're referring to member "Zene" in post#1080. This thread has, so far, 167 pages and over 1600 posts! You cannot possibly expect me to have read through every single post! And I'll be honest, majority of the time, I skimped through the thread to look for pictures! If Zene's comment sticks in your craw, please contact him or address him directly here.
No, I do not. In fact, I never read anything by you until the last couple days! You're barking the wrong tree!
I never received any email from you. You're addressing the wrong person!!
Am I in the twilight zone?!
Mr. Zene, please come back here to respond to this person!!
Niffy and John,
Beautiful designs and an absolute appreciation for the submission. I think perhaps I came across a little left of center. I appreciate the theoretical improv, while this iS necessary its much more palpable to all to see the renditions. I have spent years designing amplification gear and have found an even further connection from what theoretically should sound right and what sounds right. People are still stuck on thd, its sad but as a simple measurement shooting for lowest thd is a mistake of massive proportions.
Back to the main event, there is no deadline, but there are so many threads that get lost in debating the merits or lack of using untested information, I look at this as diluting what can be truly helpful to a newcomer interested in building his or her own arm. Every opinion is welcome, but sometimes things can get to the point of argument for the sake of argument. Directdriver, please do not take it personally, you have been ever so helpful with your posts of other arms from the web, this can also prove to keep us on our toes, and this is good.
Colin
Beautiful designs and an absolute appreciation for the submission
. I think perhaps I came across a little left of center. I appreciate the theoretical improv, while this iS necessary its much more palpable to all to see the renditions. I have spent years designing amplification gear and have found an even further connection from what theoretically should sound right and what sounds right. People are still stuck on thd, its sad but as a simple measurement shooting for lowest thd is a mistake of massive proportions.Back to the main event, there is no deadline, but there are so many threads that get lost in debating the merits or lack of using untested information, I look at this as diluting what can be truly helpful to a newcomer interested in building his or her own arm. Every opinion is welcome, but sometimes things can get to the point of argument for the sake of argument. Directdriver, please do not take it personally, you have been ever so helpful with your posts of other arms from the web, this can also prove to keep us on our toes, and this is good
.Colin
Hi all.
Unfortunately due to work comments I won't be able to unpack my "workshop" for at least a week. In the meantime I'm just going to enjoy the arm as it is. As long as I keep the eccentricity of the two wheels opposed my tracking issues aren't to much of a problem.
The arm has highlighted a tweak that needs to be addressed elsewhere in the system. When making the crossovers for my speakers I purposely left a couple of db lift to the treble drivers (crossover at 5.5khz). I found that this was necessary to overcome the rolled off slightly dull treble of the rega. My arm definitely doesn't suffer this problem. The extension and detail in this portion of the spectrum is one of the biggest leap forwards this arm has given. The slight step at 5.5k is clearly audible now. It's definitely time to pad the tweeters.
Niffy
Unfortunately due to work comments I won't be able to unpack my "workshop" for at least a week. In the meantime I'm just going to enjoy the arm as it is. As long as I keep the eccentricity of the two wheels opposed my tracking issues aren't to much of a problem.
The arm has highlighted a tweak that needs to be addressed elsewhere in the system. When making the crossovers for my speakers I purposely left a couple of db lift to the treble drivers (crossover at 5.5khz). I found that this was necessary to overcome the rolled off slightly dull treble of the rega. My arm definitely doesn't suffer this problem. The extension and detail in this portion of the spectrum is one of the biggest leap forwards this arm has given. The slight step at 5.5k is clearly audible now. It's definitely time to pad the tweeters.
Niffy
Hi John.
I love the retro look of your arm, straight out of a Victorian mad scientists lair. Is it steam powered and do little lightning bolts dance along it whilst you play records? Any chance of a wider angle photo showing the whole deck?
Niffy
P.s. was that a penny blu-tacked to a headshell I saw lurking in the background? That takes me back.
I love the retro look of your arm, straight out of a Victorian mad scientists lair. Is it steam powered and do little lightning bolts dance along it whilst you play records? Any chance of a wider angle photo showing the whole deck?
Niffy
P.s. was that a penny blu-tacked to a headshell I saw lurking in the background? That takes me back.
Hi Niffy , what Rega arm model are you referring to ? RB300 I guess ?
If that's the case I think how to cure the dip
\Paul
I'd be very interesting in details about battery driven Teres motor controller to be frank
I just bought a Maxon A-Max DC motor and so on .... another theory study requirement
THX
Paul
Niffy and John,
Beautiful designs and an absolute appreciation for the submission
Back to the main event, there is no deadline, but there are so many threads that get lost in debating the merits or lack of using untested information, I look at this as diluting what can be truly helpful to a newcomer interested in building his or her own arm. Every opinion is welcome, but sometimes things can get to the point of argument for the sake of argument. Directdriver, please do not take it personally, you have been ever so helpful with your posts of other arms from the web, this can also prove to keep us on our toes, and this is good
Colin
Hi Colin ,
I somehow agree with you not to focus solely on theory and numbers , altough I believe that we must approach things from a different angle from time to time not to get trapped into our own believes . as far as the tonearm goes ... what is our reference ? besides our two stereo flapping ears ( pun intended ) .
I'm designing , building , and testing amplification gear for over 3 decades .. so I can hear you when saying "shooting for the lowest thd is a mistake" as it IS truly a dead end street . it just takes time to realize for us , human beings .
I think we should keep the discussion alive with both earthy therms based on listening , measuring and sometimes perhaps theory and textbook physics as it can help us understanding what is actualy going on .
btw , how is your current arm doing till today ? any increments at some point ?
THX
Paul
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Hi Paul,
Yes, Thd is dangerous without knowing what to look for, in general if you can have it consistent across the audio band it's a good start. Distribution is important, it's a difference between musical involvement or sterility and great measured results.
I am very happy with the latest iteration of arm, only thing I've changed is the counterweight from polycarbonate to aluminum and slung it as low as it can go. From a theoretical standpoint it's almost a combination of variable and damped vtf and the longhorn mod to better resist torsional movement with a very low center of gravity.
Colin
Yes, Thd is dangerous without knowing what to look for, in general if you can have it consistent across the audio band it's a good start. Distribution is important, it's a difference between musical involvement or sterility and great measured results.
I am very happy with the latest iteration of arm, only thing I've changed is the counterweight from polycarbonate to aluminum and slung it as low as it can go. From a theoretical standpoint it's almost a combination of variable and damped vtf and the longhorn mod to better resist torsional movement with a very low center of gravity.
Colin
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Hi Niffy , what Rega arm model are you referring to ? RB300 I guess ?
If that's the case I think how to cure the dip
Paul
Hi Paul.
Any tips from a fellow diyer always gratefully accepted.
The arm is actually an RB250 so I don't know if your tweak will still apply.
The systemdek rega combo is the spare deck that I keep so that I can still listen to music when my main deck is upside down in pieces. It's currently packed away and mods on it are currently low priority. The ball race-pin bearing comparison is number 1 at the mo. It has been my back up deck for many years and has stood in for some classic giants. So has been a-b comparisoned with some of the best. This allows me to indirectly compare my current arm/deck to these giants.
Thanks again for your kind offer.
Niffy
Hi Niffy ,
well .. yes and no
I was dealing with a horrible RB300 VTF spring oscillation here some time ago , resulting in unstable and dull detail . I decided to remove the complete springdevice , along with an OL end stub + tungsten CW . the results were stunning and brought the arm to much higher level . i.e. previous issues were no longer !Assuming you are using the same cart as with the Rega ... padding the tweeter a couple dB sounds pretty serious to me
Are you using a stock Rega ? original wiring ? if that's the case , this would probably be the first thing that I would work out .
THX,
Paul
Hi Niffy ,
well .. yes and no
Assuming you are using the same cart as with the Rega ... padding the tweeter a couple dB sounds pretty serious to me
Are you using a stock Rega ? original wiring ? if that's the case , this would probably be the first thing that I would work out .
THX,
Paul
Hi Paul.
Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with the rega (it is standard). The rolled treble is minor. It was being compared to decks like the pt anniversary with sme v and ortofon mc3000 (one of the best cartridges ever) and the Townsend rock reference with Excalibur and mc7500. It was only sporting an ortofon 520 at the time. IMHO it beat a Linn sondek ittok, at oc9. Never could stand that much coloration.
As I was using it as my main deck until recently I gave it a hand by not padding the tweeters. That's so not necessary any more. Padding the speakers will just flatten their response (probably closer to 1db than 2). I've got a variety of different arm cables so I'll get around to rewiring one day.
I've just spent another evening plundering my record collection should have been in bed hours ago, early start tomorrow. Oops.
We're probably going off topic a bit here, back to linear trackers tomorrow.
Cheers
Niffy
just a few shots ,
of the latest wands I have been working on . the brass inserts are poking out 10MM and 20MM into the carbon rod , press fit with with a tiny drop of locktite
Industrial one second glue ( very rapidly pressed in with a handpress . M3 thread size tapped to secure the line bored headshell . all made on my minilathe which is fun and good exercise at the same time . I even turned the carbon rods to lenght in the lathe haha . I have a couple more wands to do , as I want to try as many as I can , and have tons of material stocked in my workshop so what the heck . aluminum headshell/weight , polycarbonate with a steer horn brass or bronze stabilizer . the building is as much fun for me as the actual listening / comparison to be frank .
more foto's will come later , as I'm pretty occupied these days . but just to show you guys that I'm not sitting on my lazy ***
THX
Paul
of the latest wands I have been working on . the brass inserts are poking out 10MM and 20MM into the carbon rod , press fit with with a tiny drop of locktite
Industrial one second glue ( very rapidly pressed in with a handpress . M3 thread size tapped to secure the line bored headshell . all made on my minilathe which is fun and good exercise at the same time . I even turned the carbon rods to lenght in the lathe
haha . I have a couple more wands to do , as I want to try as many as I can , and have tons of material stocked in my workshop so what the heck . aluminum headshell/weight , polycarbonate with a steer horn brass or bronze stabilizer . the building is as much fun for me as the actual listening / comparison to be frank . more foto's will come later , as I'm pretty occupied these days . but just to show you guys that I'm not sitting on my lazy ***
THX
Paul
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of the latest wands I have been working on . the brass inserts are poking out 10MM and 20MM into the carbon rod , press fit with with a tiny drop of locktite
Industrial one second glue ( very rapidly pressed in with a handpress . M3 thread size tapped to secure the line bored headshell . all made on my minilathe which is fun and good exercise at the same time . I even turned the carbon rods to lenght in the lathe
more foto's will come later , as I'm pretty occupied these days . but just to show you guys that I'm not sitting on my lazy ***
THX
Paul
Hi Paul.
Gorgeous finish quality on all you carriage components.
You own a mini lathe! Green with envy, what make is it and have you measured its concentricity?
I totally agree with your last point. DIY. Triple the fun. Fun designing. Fun building. Fun listening. And the joy of knowing "I made that".
Clearaudio deck? Or diy?
Niffy
Beautiful work Paul!,
It is awesome to see the progress and everyone's iterations of the arm. My vote for best sound goes to the upright alu block headshell, but this is a great opportunity for suit to taste because that's what it's all about. The latest lowest slungest counterweight is the best so far, and adds atleast double the stability to the carriage.
Colin
It is awesome to see the progress and everyone's iterations of the arm. My vote for best sound goes to the upright alu block headshell, but this is a great opportunity for suit to taste because that's what it's all about. The latest lowest slungest counterweight is the best so far, and adds atleast double the stability to the carriage.
Colin
Thanks guys !
I want to check out 5 or 6 different wands with one and the same cartridge . Will also fabricate a few counterweights , different shape and weight , low slung etc.
BTW , some carbon rods are of the thin wand variety , and funny enough they sounds less ringing opposed to the thicker carbon sticks easy to check haha put them into my ear and tapping them with a screwdriver .
My lathe , nothing special or expensive , a Hobbymat , see attachement . I bought it new and only using it for light jobs . sure it's pretty accurate and once in a while using a dial to check , or dead centers kissing methode .
Good eye NIffy that is another project of the many , Clearaudio Emotion which I bought w/o arm . perhaps a nice easy TT to equip with a linear tracker someday soon haha , altough my heavy mass Lenco with remote driven platter will probably be my ol time favorit . I hate flimsy apparatus .. no idea how that comes , it's just that mass drives are providing so much more stabillity in both sound and comfort .
THX
Paul
I want to check out 5 or 6 different wands with one and the same cartridge . Will also fabricate a few counterweights , different shape and weight , low slung etc.
BTW , some carbon rods are of the thin wand variety , and funny enough they sounds less ringing opposed to the thicker carbon sticks
easy to check haha put them into my ear and tapping them with a screwdriver . My lathe , nothing special or expensive , a Hobbymat , see attachement . I bought it new and only using it for light jobs . sure it's pretty accurate and once in a while using a dial to check , or dead centers kissing methode .
Good eye NIffy
that is another project of the many , Clearaudio Emotion which I bought w/o arm . perhaps a nice easy TT to equip with a linear tracker someday soon haha , altough my heavy mass Lenco with remote driven platter will probably be my ol time favorit . I hate flimsy apparatus .. no idea how that comes , it's just that mass drives are providing so much more stabillity in both sound and comfort . THX
Paul
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Aaaaaahg.
Disaster has struck. My pillar drill has just gone to the great workshop in the sky. I was trying to make mountings for the new rail yesterday when...... I''ll strip it down today to see if it's repairable but the prognosis isn't good. It has been used constantly for years (and in ways that it was never designed for). The pin-bearing/ball race comparison may be delayed a bit.
Niffy
Disaster has struck. My pillar drill has just gone to the great workshop in the sky. I was trying to make mountings for the new rail yesterday when...... I''ll strip it down today to see if it's repairable but the prognosis isn't good. It has been used constantly for years (and in ways that it was never designed for). The pin-bearing/ball race comparison may be delayed a bit.
Niffy
You have probably burned out the motor's carbon brushes Niffy .. try to be more polite with the machine .. as you now find out you have lost a friend in hard times
Good luck in getting it back to work , hopefuly .
THX
Paul
Cheers Paul.
It wasn't the motor it was the casting of the main body that had gone causing the chuck to wobble by a couple of mil. No possible cure. I've purchased a new drill so I'm back on track. If I keep the old drills chuck locked in the fully raised position it doesn't wobble so I'll keep it for lathe type work and the new one purely for drilling. It was this abuse that probably did the damage.
Niffy
It wasn't the motor it was the casting of the main body that had gone causing the chuck to wobble by a couple of mil. No possible cure. I've purchased a new drill so I'm back on track. If I keep the old drills chuck locked in the fully raised position it doesn't wobble so I'll keep it for lathe type work and the new one purely for drilling. It was this abuse that probably did the damage.
Niffy