hmmmm. this is a very interesting subject indeed and there has been a few discusions on this subject ,But there have been not alot of very definitive answers.
And it becomes a personal preference issue and part of the hemholtz factor and the loading of the diagphram at the lowest frequency's.
What are your views as I have had similar thoughts when I first fired up my micro driver listening to jimi at woodstock and wrote it off as being mediocore in an MP3 format but yet it does sound better on my small panel when next to my ear like a headphone driver would be.
This where my issues are In finishing my DIY
es'headphones . jer
And it becomes a personal preference issue and part of the hemholtz factor and the loading of the diagphram at the lowest frequency's.
What are your views as I have had similar thoughts when I first fired up my micro driver listening to jimi at woodstock and wrote it off as being mediocore in an MP3 format but yet it does sound better on my small panel when next to my ear like a headphone driver would be.
This where my issues are In finishing my DIY
es'headphones . jer
even though the open area on some of my samples has been reduced from the extra layers of paint, It seems that this ratio has not made that much of a difference in the sound, compared to the holes per area, as far as the sound being restricted due to the holes per area ratio is concerned.
I hope that I said that right. jer
I hope that I said that right. jer
I've made a pair of ESL using diamond shape holes on perforated 1 mm metal sheets before. They definitely sound more open than my 3 mm round holes version. I actually liked them better. But to what extend can you have more open area and still have a decent efficiency?
As for those two pictures, I'm not the one taking them. The diameter of the stator should be around 8 - 9 cm. The diameter of the active diaphragm should be around 7 - 8 cm. The diameter of the holes must be 1 mm or less. I am just curious as to why they decide to make such a big opening right in the middle of the driver. That could be positioned at the center of your ear when wearing them. Wouldn't that area make no sound?
Wachara C.
As for those two pictures, I'm not the one taking them. The diameter of the stator should be around 8 - 9 cm. The diameter of the active diaphragm should be around 7 - 8 cm. The diameter of the holes must be 1 mm or less. I am just curious as to why they decide to make such a big opening right in the middle of the driver. That could be positioned at the center of your ear when wearing them. Wouldn't that area make no sound?
Wachara C.
Since this is the "ESL for dummies" thread I feel kind of at home here. 
Here's a Q that should fit the topic.
How stiff and how heavy should the frame be that you use to mount the panel?
Obviously it should be stiff enough that the panel doesn't fold over due to it's own weight, but beyond that? A curved panel should solve that bit pretty much on it's own without any added bracing?
How light can it be before it becomes an issue? I like slender looking panels and would like to make mine as slender as possible but the sound quality is always first priority.
Here's a Q that should fit the topic.
How stiff and how heavy should the frame be that you use to mount the panel?
Obviously it should be stiff enough that the panel doesn't fold over due to it's own weight, but beyond that? A curved panel should solve that bit pretty much on it's own without any added bracing?
How light can it be before it becomes an issue? I like slender looking panels and would like to make mine as slender as possible but the sound quality is always first priority.
Since this is the "ESL for dummies" thread I feel kind of at home here.
Here's a Q that should fit the topic.
How stiff and how heavy should the frame be that you use to mount the panel?
Obviously it should be stiff enough that the panel doesn't fold over due to it's own weight, but beyond that? A curved panel should solve that bit pretty much on it's own without any added bracing?
How light can it be before it becomes an issue? I like slender looking panels and would like to make mine as slender as possible but the sound quality is always first priority.
Even very heavy panels can vibrate.
I once made a fullrange panel with a thickness of around 60 mm MDF with 8 mm plexiglass (spacers) in the middle. Yet you could still feel some (weak) vibrations on the frame.
My current audiostatics have frames which are much lighter but they have some problems with bassresonances (more as with my diy panels.)
Remember, the long thin shape is about the worst regarding vibrations!
you could consider some supporting rod attached between the middle of the panel and the base making the shape less prone to resonance.
use damping; e.g. metal tubeframe filled with sand like the old final 1.2, because only mass won't dissipate vibrations; it just takes longer before the larger mass will vibrate but it will also continue to vibrate longer.
If I would redo the frames of my audiostatics, I probably would go for some kind of sandwich of wood with sand between, or bitumex.
It would seem that they did this for structural integrity. The stator spacing looks extremely small, so I can see why that would be needed. Just guessing here of course.
There are powdercoats formulated to last at least 10 years in the sun on aluminium, they are not all the same, have a look at dulux's powdercoating website.
I don't know which formula was used as it was a freebie sample that the local shop had done for me.
They used TCI powder coating materials exclusively.
When I had tried to setup an account with them they said that their minimum order is $35 and when I asked them how much screen material can I get done for that the only answer was "alot".
The shop was very busy at that time and he had a very large oven and there where questions as to if I could use a wood frame to support the material.
The sample that he did provide me with did have some flow out problems and were inconsistent.
But I was able to have enough material to build the two little panels.
After this is when I got in trouble and the project was put on hold for a while.
Since then I have had a subscription to paint and powdercoating magazine and there have been alot of breakthroughs since then.
Namely the use of glass microspheres that Roger Sanders and I had talked about in one of our many conversations back in 03 and 04. jer
They used TCI powder coating materials exclusively.
When I had tried to setup an account with them they said that their minimum order is $35 and when I asked them how much screen material can I get done for that the only answer was "alot".
The shop was very busy at that time and he had a very large oven and there where questions as to if I could use a wood frame to support the material.
The sample that he did provide me with did have some flow out problems and were inconsistent.
But I was able to have enough material to build the two little panels.
After this is when I got in trouble and the project was put on hold for a while.
Since then I have had a subscription to paint and powdercoating magazine and there have been alot of breakthroughs since then.
Namely the use of glass microspheres that Roger Sanders and I had talked about in one of our many conversations back in 03 and 04. jer
I would rather use thixotropic(sic!) urethane or even acrylic based paint, black one. Much more easier - dip coating... with even thickness.
My next build is using an acrylic based paint as I have had very good results with it.
However I do need to get a sprayer so that a can get the paint in bulk as spray bombs are quite costly for the amount of coverage required.
I did pick up some some of the new 2X stuff (clear) the other day and it was acutaly cheaper than the regular for the same size can so I will give it a try.
I have to get my bias supply back together first so that I can do some measured tests.
So far I do have a good coat of talc based primer on some screen hoping that the talc will do some justice.
This should provide some strength and rigidity to the screen to prevent cracking of the coating at the pionts were the wires criss cross during the cronstruction process.
The weather has been pretty crappy ,still , so I can't get out side to do try the paint.
I will also try using polyurethane again when the weather clears as it is quite messy to work with and needs to be thinned quite a bit in order to not plug up the holes.
When I detremine the proper thinning ratio I will post this data aswell.
I had used it as the first few coats on my bigger panels just to spend hours poking the holes open with a needle.
I did atempt to use plastidip once but it to needs to be thinned properly and I never got far enough along to try it.
However I did try the spray version and it yielded a very thin coating for can that cost twice much as spray enamel and was not cost effective at all.
I am thinking that a thinned polyurethane dipped method might be a way to go but I need to build a proper size vat to dip with as once thinned it will take alot of dippings to get a thick enough coating.
Although the spray method might be a better way to go but deffintley not using spray bombs as their cost has skyrocketed aswell and is extremly thin too.
One spray bomb costs as much as a quart can of the regular stuff.
Funny you should mention using black as there have been many discussions on this.
But, as I have found do not use white or anything that has titanium dioxide as a pigment. Even if it is the hard epoxy based enamel ,it simply conducts at high voltages no matter how thick the coating is.
However it did work but I could not get it to withstand the higher voltage bias that I was tring to run at.
This drop the efficiency of the panel by at least 3db or more. jer
However I do need to get a sprayer so that a can get the paint in bulk as spray bombs are quite costly for the amount of coverage required.
I did pick up some some of the new 2X stuff (clear) the other day and it was acutaly cheaper than the regular for the same size can so I will give it a try.
I have to get my bias supply back together first so that I can do some measured tests.
So far I do have a good coat of talc based primer on some screen hoping that the talc will do some justice.
This should provide some strength and rigidity to the screen to prevent cracking of the coating at the pionts were the wires criss cross during the cronstruction process.
The weather has been pretty crappy ,still , so I can't get out side to do try the paint.
I will also try using polyurethane again when the weather clears as it is quite messy to work with and needs to be thinned quite a bit in order to not plug up the holes.
When I detremine the proper thinning ratio I will post this data aswell.
I had used it as the first few coats on my bigger panels just to spend hours poking the holes open with a needle.
I did atempt to use plastidip once but it to needs to be thinned properly and I never got far enough along to try it.
However I did try the spray version and it yielded a very thin coating for can that cost twice much as spray enamel and was not cost effective at all.
I am thinking that a thinned polyurethane dipped method might be a way to go but I need to build a proper size vat to dip with as once thinned it will take alot of dippings to get a thick enough coating.
Although the spray method might be a better way to go but deffintley not using spray bombs as their cost has skyrocketed aswell and is extremly thin too.
One spray bomb costs as much as a quart can of the regular stuff.
Funny you should mention using black as there have been many discussions on this.
But, as I have found do not use white or anything that has titanium dioxide as a pigment. Even if it is the hard epoxy based enamel ,it simply conducts at high voltages no matter how thick the coating is.
However it did work but I could not get it to withstand the higher voltage bias that I was tring to run at.
This drop the efficiency of the panel by at least 3db or more. jer
Last edited:
Hi has anyone tried one of these insulating paints
http://www.plastidip.co.uk/eStore/index.cfm?type=Commercial/Liquid_Electrical_Tape&stage=1
http://www.plastidip.co.uk/eStore/index.cfm?type=Commercial/Liquid_Electrical_Tape&stage=1
"I did atempt to use plastidip once but it to needs to be thinned properly and I never got far enough along to try it.
However I did try the spray version and it yielded a very thin coating for can that cost twice much as spray enamel and was not cost effective at all." jer
And if you use water based coating you may add water based membrane coating to it - to get the right conductivty for the potential equalization... can't you?
I use licron crystal as my membrane coatings.
I do have the water based ployurethane to to try aswell for a stator coating.
However I have read many mixed opinions about using this material for HV insulation in the tesla coil world and I will try some samples with this material as well.
I am not so sure of its performance as it is a water based product.
I have read that it does turn white again if water is allowed to set too long on something that has been coated with it.
If this is the case then it might be that the performance might be questionable in area's of a very high humdity. jer
P.S. On the note of using plastidip the electrical specs look good but I did not find them to be acurate for the spray product.
However I may give it another try at a later time as the one I used had a yellow pigment and could have been the cause of the poor insulating performace as clear was not available in 2003 when I had tried it.
I did test the stuff that comes in a can and worked very good as far as its insulating factor even though it was black.
But, It is extremly thick and it was difficult to coat the wire mesh with.
Just as the polyurethane is staight out of the can.
I think that it would work very good on the TIG wire stators that I had made.
But I like the copper color sheen and clear was not available when I had made them.
I see that it is now and I could very easily brush that material on them.
I do have the water based ployurethane to to try aswell for a stator coating.
However I have read many mixed opinions about using this material for HV insulation in the tesla coil world and I will try some samples with this material as well.
I am not so sure of its performance as it is a water based product.
I have read that it does turn white again if water is allowed to set too long on something that has been coated with it.
If this is the case then it might be that the performance might be questionable in area's of a very high humdity. jer
P.S. On the note of using plastidip the electrical specs look good but I did not find them to be acurate for the spray product.
However I may give it another try at a later time as the one I used had a yellow pigment and could have been the cause of the poor insulating performace as clear was not available in 2003 when I had tried it.
I did test the stuff that comes in a can and worked very good as far as its insulating factor even though it was black.
But, It is extremly thick and it was difficult to coat the wire mesh with.
Just as the polyurethane is staight out of the can.
I think that it would work very good on the TIG wire stators that I had made.
But I like the copper color sheen and clear was not available when I had made them.
I see that it is now and I could very easily brush that material on them.
Last edited:
I just found this as I have a bit of catching up to do.
It suports my findings as I stated at the end of post #95.
My painted panels could only support half of the bias voltage of the powder coat/clear acrylic panels at 6.5kv to 7.5kv which was limited due to the breakdown (ionization) of the air in a .077" d/s gap. jer
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plan...agm-resonance-change-hv-bias.html#post2378013
It suports my findings as I stated at the end of post #95.
My painted panels could only support half of the bias voltage of the powder coat/clear acrylic panels at 6.5kv to 7.5kv which was limited due to the breakdown (ionization) of the air in a .077" d/s gap. jer
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plan...agm-resonance-change-hv-bias.html#post2378013
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.