Tor, on a few of those pictures looks like back acryllic for the sides of your lens? Did you find some that had a flat (non glossy) non reflective surface facing the inside of the lens? I'm not convinced this element is actually that important (having black sides vs. just glass).
I filled my 2nd protoype last night and neither leaked the first try! We fired up a movie and put it into action, no focus problems and got the squeeze! A little keystoning on the right, but I think I just need to fiddle with the prisms a bit more.
Here's the big question, now, Tor, or anyone, do you know the angles required for a 2.35 squeeze (vs. 16:9), for the 2.35 content films, to use the full panel on the projector and squeeze it back down to it's 2.35 ratio?
Do you think it's possible to use the existing prisms and just move them at different angles to accomplish more/less of a squeeze. I didn't experiment much with this but I did notice I could get more of a squeeze by simply making the angles that the prisms sat more dramatic. I am figuring that trying it with my existing prisms I'll create some drastic barrel distortion, and need different angled prisms to accomplish this?
I filled my 2nd protoype last night and neither leaked the first try! We fired up a movie and put it into action, no focus problems and got the squeeze! A little keystoning on the right, but I think I just need to fiddle with the prisms a bit more.
Here's the big question, now, Tor, or anyone, do you know the angles required for a 2.35 squeeze (vs. 16:9), for the 2.35 content films, to use the full panel on the projector and squeeze it back down to it's 2.35 ratio?
Do you think it's possible to use the existing prisms and just move them at different angles to accomplish more/less of a squeeze. I didn't experiment much with this but I did notice I could get more of a squeeze by simply making the angles that the prisms sat more dramatic. I am figuring that trying it with my existing prisms I'll create some drastic barrel distortion, and need different angled prisms to accomplish this?
I did not use black glass or acrylic glass for the sides. I used either an aluminium frame which is painted black on the inside (waterprisms) and ordinary glass which is painted black on the outside (oilprisms).
The idea with using square plastic pipes as frames for the prisms is a very good one. But you need to make sure you use a plastic that can be glued. I dont think PVC can be glued with normal Epoxy glues but I'm not sure. There's only one sure-fire way to find out.
You will get more barrel distortion with more compression. The 2.35:1 Panamorph also has more distortion than the 1.78:1 Panamorph.
I don't know the angles for 2,35:1-optimizd prisms, but I think it's possible to achieve more compression with the 1,78:1 prisms by tilting them. the geometry might become more uneven because of this, the bottom and top edges of the picture might be more compressed than the center. I don't know for sure but I can imagine that happening.
BTW.
I too am considering a NEC HT1000. It looks like a really good projector for HT.
Tor Arne
The idea with using square plastic pipes as frames for the prisms is a very good one. But you need to make sure you use a plastic that can be glued. I dont think PVC can be glued with normal Epoxy glues but I'm not sure. There's only one sure-fire way to find out.
You will get more barrel distortion with more compression. The 2.35:1 Panamorph also has more distortion than the 1.78:1 Panamorph.
I don't know the angles for 2,35:1-optimizd prisms, but I think it's possible to achieve more compression with the 1,78:1 prisms by tilting them. the geometry might become more uneven because of this, the bottom and top edges of the picture might be more compressed than the center. I don't know for sure but I can imagine that happening.
BTW.
I too am considering a NEC HT1000. It looks like a really good projector for HT.
Tor Arne
Hey Tor I'm pretty sure the focus problems you're having on the corners with your bent lexan is the same "problem" I saw with my lexan faces, in my all acryllic version 1st protoype... They weren't intended to be, but I think they end up bent, not perfectly flat as they are supposed to be, I think they had a slight twist and as a result one or both weren't at the appropriate angles for the whole width of the lens.
I went to glass and it worked well. I will expirement with shifting the angles of both prisms to see if I can get a 2.35 and will post my results.
Tor: Does the excel file that "DECinema" posted in the avsforum thread have the info we need, possibly? I downloaded it and will take a look. Don't want to waste too much time on it though if you can say one way or another defininitively.
Need to still build a frame for mine... I'll be making it out of wood, painting it black... with my father who has the woodshop. I don't have access to aluminum and metal cutting tools like Tor does.
I went to glass and it worked well. I will expirement with shifting the angles of both prisms to see if I can get a 2.35 and will post my results.
Tor: Does the excel file that "DECinema" posted in the avsforum thread have the info we need, possibly? I downloaded it and will take a look. Don't want to waste too much time on it though if you can say one way or another defininitively.
Need to still build a frame for mine... I'll be making it out of wood, painting it black... with my father who has the woodshop. I don't have access to aluminum and metal cutting tools like Tor does.
BY THE WAY.... I'm still very curious what this PVC tubing is all about. Can someone at least describe to me how this tubing is used to house the prism? I just can't picture it in my head.. again, all I can see in my head is pvc sprinkler tubing.. even a large enough piece of that, I don't quite get how it could be utilized...
rwhitley? Tor? Anyone?
rwhitley? Tor? Anyone?
that's a great idea... Thanks for posting that illustration, Tor. Now, it's obvious and I should have been able to picture this... In effect that is very similar to some of my original ideas but even better!!
My idea was to make the prisms with two pieces, both acryllic. To keep the number of seams and joints and gluing to a minimum. One piece for the front and back faces, and one piece for the sides and bottom. These two pieces would of course need to be bent to shape, the clear acrylic piece needing one bend in the middle, and bent over something that was at the correct angle. (like a piece of wood or a pre-shaped wedge). The bottom and sides would be one piece of acrylic bent at two places where the sides meet the bottom.
Tor, why'd you make so many models?? Do all of them work?? Did you ever get the bent lexan to correctly compensate for the barrel distortion AND cause no focus problems?
My idea was to make the prisms with two pieces, both acryllic. To keep the number of seams and joints and gluing to a minimum. One piece for the front and back faces, and one piece for the sides and bottom. These two pieces would of course need to be bent to shape, the clear acrylic piece needing one bend in the middle, and bent over something that was at the correct angle. (like a piece of wood or a pre-shaped wedge). The bottom and sides would be one piece of acrylic bent at two places where the sides meet the bottom.
Tor, why'd you make so many models?? Do all of them work?? Did you ever get the bent lexan to correctly compensate for the barrel distortion AND cause no focus problems?
Not all my lenses worked well. Some were too small to fit the picture because of my short-throw projector.
I managed to get a pretty good correction but the bends weren't completely even all around so the geometry on a couple of edges were "wavy". I have a new technique for making perfect bends though which is the simplest way really. It's mentioned in the patent posted earlier in this thread.
Tor Arne
I managed to get a pretty good correction but the bends weren't completely even all around so the geometry on a couple of edges were "wavy". I have a new technique for making perfect bends though which is the simplest way really. It's mentioned in the patent posted earlier in this thread.
Tor Arne
Hey Tor, I wanted to let you know I didn't have any top or bottom "barrel distortion" with the model I just built (at least that I could see), I did have a keystone on the right side which I think I can correct once I actually mount the prisms. Anyway, if you can ahieve one without the barrel
Not sure if the size of my prisms made a difference there, both are 6" wide and they are 6" tall and 4" tall.
I remember having the panamorph actually setup in my HT room and the panamorph had a distinct bend on the top. On the "Arnemorph" I just built there was no bend at the top?
If I had to choose between barrel distortion and unfocused /wavy corners I'd probably choose the barrel distortion, after all, with black borders you can pretty much 'swallow' the bend into a nice straight line at the border anwyay.
Not sure if the size of my prisms made a difference there, both are 6" wide and they are 6" tall and 4" tall.
I remember having the panamorph actually setup in my HT room and the panamorph had a distinct bend on the top. On the "Arnemorph" I just built there was no bend at the top?
If I had to choose between barrel distortion and unfocused /wavy corners I'd probably choose the barrel distortion, after all, with black borders you can pretty much 'swallow' the bend into a nice straight line at the border anwyay.
Glass in Portland
Jude,
I'm also constructing an anamorphic lens (thanks Tor!) and live in the Vancouver area. There is another low-reflective glass called Image Perfect glass made by Zuel, Inc. It has low-reflectivity without using external coatings. I've found a site on the web: http://www.framingsupply.com which will cut the glass to supplied dimensions. I'd like to try and find a local supplier here in the Portland area. Which glass companies have you contacted?
Thanks,
Darryl
Jude,
I'm also constructing an anamorphic lens (thanks Tor!) and live in the Vancouver area. There is another low-reflective glass called Image Perfect glass made by Zuel, Inc. It has low-reflectivity without using external coatings. I've found a site on the web: http://www.framingsupply.com which will cut the glass to supplied dimensions. I'd like to try and find a local supplier here in the Portland area. Which glass companies have you contacted?
Thanks,
Darryl
Hey Daryl! Wow, you're really close by! Just out of curiosity, have you been to any of the 'group meets' that Jason and company get together from the avsforum (I guess they've been happening locally here in the area since FEB or MAR of this year, about once a month.) Whats your handle on avsforum?
I've called a few frame shops in Portland and they had a type of low reflective glass, I don't remember it being called "picture perfect". I have a feeling it's the same stuff, one of the frame guys I talked to told me that they change the name of the product every year. It wasn't too cheap, but it wasn't as expensive as museum glass.
I'd love to have a shootout between one made with such glass and without. After seeing a panamorph in action and seeing the one I built, I'm somewhat skeptical there's much of a difference. On the other hand, I don't trust my eyes all the time when it comes to colors/hues/contrast levels.
I went to a Home Depot/Lowes today and although I couldn't find tubing wide enough, I have some new leads. I'm convinced the tubing idea is THE way to go. (after reading posts by Tor and rwhitley)
I've called a few frame shops in Portland and they had a type of low reflective glass, I don't remember it being called "picture perfect". I have a feeling it's the same stuff, one of the frame guys I talked to told me that they change the name of the product every year. It wasn't too cheap, but it wasn't as expensive as museum glass.
I'd love to have a shootout between one made with such glass and without. After seeing a panamorph in action and seeing the one I built, I'm somewhat skeptical there's much of a difference. On the other hand, I don't trust my eyes all the time when it comes to colors/hues/contrast levels.
I went to a Home Depot/Lowes today and although I couldn't find tubing wide enough, I have some new leads. I'm convinced the tubing idea is THE way to go. (after reading posts by Tor and rwhitley)
Jude,
My handle at AVSForum is DArthur (go figure...). I haven't participated in the group meets - it sounds like a lot of fun. The Frame Depot at Vancouver Mall says they have the glass for $33.85 for a 12" x 12" inch sheet. I'll try to pick some up in the next couple of days and give it a try.
The tube idea sounds great. I ended up getting some black plastic from tap plastics and using a band saw to cut the side/bottom pieces.
Hopefully, in the next week or so, I'll get the thing together and give it a try.
My setup:
Intel MB
512 MB Rambus
Radeon 7500
MyHD HDTV card
Holo3Dgraphic
Win XP Home
Nec LT-150
Panasonic rp82 DVD
What projector where you using?
Darryl
My handle at AVSForum is DArthur (go figure...). I haven't participated in the group meets - it sounds like a lot of fun. The Frame Depot at Vancouver Mall says they have the glass for $33.85 for a 12" x 12" inch sheet. I'll try to pick some up in the next couple of days and give it a try.
The tube idea sounds great. I ended up getting some black plastic from tap plastics and using a band saw to cut the side/bottom pieces.
Hopefully, in the next week or so, I'll get the thing together and give it a try.
My setup:
Intel MB
512 MB Rambus
Radeon 7500
MyHD HDTV card
Holo3Dgraphic
Win XP Home
Nec LT-150
Panasonic rp82 DVD
What projector where you using?
Darryl
Wow! That's where I was going for my acryllic pieces, as well. Small world! (Tap Plastics in Tigard, which is 5 minutes drive from where I work!) I wonder if you and I chose the same acrylic to work with for the side and bottom pieces? (The type was a flat black on one side, 1/8" thick, glossy & relfective black on the other side). I like going through their scrap pile too that's a lot cheaper, only it's hard to find the right type of black plastic in there.
The last group meet we had was at my house, and I've only been to two or three of the 6 or 7 they've had. During that meet, we got to see the panamorph in action-- sounds like one you should have been at! I was especially interested because I was tired of the light spill of my 4:3 projector and wanted to decrease the visible artifacts from the same seating distance.
Many of the folks in the PDX group have CRT but one guy who brought his panamorph uses an LT150 (I believe) like you-- I think that's a native 16:9 projector, is it not? And he uses the pannie to get a full panel 2.35 image. My projector is a panasonic 75u, which got some fanfare on the forum. It would be cool to setup at a future PDX meet where we did a "shootout" between the different DIY anamorphic prism models and see how it performs against the "real thing". My HTPC is as follows:
GIGABYTE Motherboard/sound built in
XP 1.8 processor
256MB RAM
Radeon 7500
XP PRO
POWERDVD software
panasonic 75u pj
The last group meet we had was at my house, and I've only been to two or three of the 6 or 7 they've had. During that meet, we got to see the panamorph in action-- sounds like one you should have been at! I was especially interested because I was tired of the light spill of my 4:3 projector and wanted to decrease the visible artifacts from the same seating distance.
Many of the folks in the PDX group have CRT but one guy who brought his panamorph uses an LT150 (I believe) like you-- I think that's a native 16:9 projector, is it not? And he uses the pannie to get a full panel 2.35 image. My projector is a panasonic 75u, which got some fanfare on the forum. It would be cool to setup at a future PDX meet where we did a "shootout" between the different DIY anamorphic prism models and see how it performs against the "real thing". My HTPC is as follows:
GIGABYTE Motherboard/sound built in
XP 1.8 processor
256MB RAM
Radeon 7500
XP PRO
POWERDVD software
panasonic 75u pj
With all these great ideas I'm getting excited again. I ditched my last project because of constant leaks and difficulty cutting the glass. If I got the piece pretty close the plastic sides would come out wrong or something of the sort. Maybe with the pipe idea, some silicone sealant, and some glass from here I will have much more success. Anyone else agree? Also, $20 for glass plus shipping isn't too bad and gets pretty good glass, especially if they cut to size!
Craig
Craig
I will be picking up some 5" "fence tubing" today, and will be cutting it over the weekend. Won't be able to glue glass to it until the following week after Thanksgiving, but I'm pretty confident in the idea. Seemed to have worked the first time for Rwhitley. My current working model will be retired as I made the sides from glass and would prefer a solid plastic w/ flat color to block any unecessary light spill. Also, I believe you can block the 'fill hole' with a screw which I'd like to have attached to the prisms for ease of changing the angles, and attach to a frame. You can't put a screw in glass to my knowledge.
The thing I like better about working with glass is it's so easy to cut pieces exactly the right size. (as compared to trying to hold my wireless power saw in a straight line)
In regards to liquid leaks... the first model I built had tons of leaks. I had to empty both the prisms twice and re-apply a glue I was using before I got all of them blocked. The second one I finished recently amazingly had NO LEAKS the first try.
I would recommend the same thing as Tor has encouraged in the past... build a 'test' model first to build your confidence and work out any kinks in your techniques. Making a good seal is sort of an art, but it's easy once you learn how. If your first model works perfectly, then great, but don't expect it to... expect it mainly to increase your confidence level in working w/ the materials.
The thing I like better about working with glass is it's so easy to cut pieces exactly the right size. (as compared to trying to hold my wireless power saw in a straight line)
In regards to liquid leaks... the first model I built had tons of leaks. I had to empty both the prisms twice and re-apply a glue I was using before I got all of them blocked. The second one I finished recently amazingly had NO LEAKS the first try.
I would recommend the same thing as Tor has encouraged in the past... build a 'test' model first to build your confidence and work out any kinks in your techniques. Making a good seal is sort of an art, but it's easy once you learn how. If your first model works perfectly, then great, but don't expect it to... expect it mainly to increase your confidence level in working w/ the materials.
Yes. It worked fine, and was easy to pick up ($5 at Walgreens pharmacy). It's as clear as water and no bubles formed for me that I had to get rid of. Colorless, odorless, very easy to work with. No big deal if you spill a little. Try not to spill any on the faces of the lens as it does take quite a few swipes of a paper towel to remove the oil completely.
I used this stuff they had at a plastic shop called AE500 or something like that. I asked the guy what would be great for glueing plastic to plastic for a watertight seal and he pointed at this stuff. My original model was going to be all acryllic, so I bought it.
Ironically I didn't end up using it until my all-glass version, and decided to try it. I can tell you that so far over about a week and a half neither prism has leaked. I can't speak for the long term. I think any type of silicon should work. I would buy whatever you are most familiar with. Even that heavy duty stuff builders use when sealing bathroom facilities/showers/etc. That white or clear gummy silicon stuff they applied at the edges of your shower.
Ironically I didn't end up using it until my all-glass version, and decided to try it. I can tell you that so far over about a week and a half neither prism has leaked. I can't speak for the long term. I think any type of silicon should work. I would buy whatever you are most familiar with. Even that heavy duty stuff builders use when sealing bathroom facilities/showers/etc. That white or clear gummy silicon stuff they applied at the edges of your shower.
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