Hi Richard,
About building, could you draw a shematic to help us with a BOM about the parts values please and post it in the thread where Shane (Ceglar) and Andrea talks about tubes for the TDA1541 ? (link provided in the first post)
I believe it could be very interresting to compare your experience?
I know many frenchs used mini tubes also with this dac chip but many links have diseaper with years as the tda1541 has 30 years of diy behind it !
What do you use for the input stage ? NOS ?,
Johnny, as a beginner myself I believe the simplier the better then you will try other designs step by step: first maybe beginn with the SEN on a verroboard with point to point soldering and good thin copper wire. Try to power it a simple shunt with a good Pi filter or try an already maid low noise PS, I surmise you can find more store in your country than mine for such kits !
About building, could you draw a shematic to help us with a BOM about the parts values please and post it in the thread where Shane (Ceglar) and Andrea talks about tubes for the TDA1541 ? (link provided in the first post)
I believe it could be very interresting to compare your experience?
I know many frenchs used mini tubes also with this dac chip but many links have diseaper with years as the tda1541 has 30 years of diy behind it !
What do you use for the input stage ? NOS ?,
Johnny, as a beginner myself I believe the simplier the better then you will try other designs step by step: first maybe beginn with the SEN on a verroboard with point to point soldering and good thin copper wire. Try to power it a simple shunt with a good Pi filter or try an already maid low noise PS, I surmise you can find more store in your country than mine for such kits !
Last edited:
Hi Johnny,
What is good with freedom is you are free
!
I believe lampizator knows what to do with tubes but it's also about money which is not in this thread: which is just here for a modest help to each others,.
i'm certain you will have good result with Lampizator mini tubes kit : you have above an experienced fellow with a good testimonial about it. Here in France we have a serious cd player brand whic used minitubes before him with excellent results also with other dac chips. Don't forgett also Glassware Aikido kit which is very near to the Gomez shematic T. Loesch likes himself for the TDA1541. Ask to T. Loesch himself maybe at the other pub. I don't know him myself but he is known to be a smart nice & kind diyer yet for others ! Even if he maid certainly one of the best cd player around the TDA1541 with the CD-77 (I mean for the print reviews, i never heard it myself !)
In both case, read a lot about how to do because high voltage can kill you, not just burn your fingers . Sorry to repeat it but myself I hesitate to go on this road because the risk : all serious tubes diyers will say you he had an electrical chock ! It's not to stop you but just to inform you.
Cheers, you have 3 Distinction-1541 boards ! Hé Enjoy & report to us...
What is good with freedom is you are free
!I believe lampizator knows what to do with tubes but it's also about money which is not in this thread: which is just here for a modest help to each others,.
i'm certain you will have good result with Lampizator mini tubes kit : you have above an experienced fellow with a good testimonial about it. Here in France we have a serious cd player brand whic used minitubes before him with excellent results also with other dac chips. Don't forgett also Glassware Aikido kit which is very near to the Gomez shematic T. Loesch likes himself for the TDA1541. Ask to T. Loesch himself maybe at the other pub. I don't know him myself but he is known to be a smart nice & kind diyer yet for others ! Even if he maid certainly one of the best cd player around the TDA1541 with the CD-77 (I mean for the print reviews, i never heard it myself !)
In both case, read a lot about how to do because high voltage can kill you, not just burn your fingers . Sorry to repeat it but myself I hesitate to go on this road because the risk : all serious tubes diyers will say you he had an electrical chock ! It's not to stop you but just to inform you.
Cheers, you have 3 Distinction-1541 boards ! Hé Enjoy & report to us...
Last edited:
Ai, that's a painfull declaration to all tube diy. Unfortunately I have to admit the same counts for me
. Of course it can be simply avoided by unplugging from the mains and discharge the capacitors. But sometimes you have to measure voltages to find out what's going on and then it need to be powered on. That's the tricky case where you really shall pay attention what you're doing. The highest risc is that you think it will not happen to you! It will!But I never noticed any deadly incidents for tube stage workers
. At least it is less tricky as your 230Vac household installation. Never work on that when energized!!! When you keep away from tubes as 211 types with extreem high voltage of 1000Vdc (normally the voltage supply will be 200-350Vdc max) and when you take some care, find out the wonderful world of tubes.Great news Peterma. A picture speaks a thousand words... Please.
What's your setup exactly if you don't mind sharing?
Ryan
I would but I am a bit embarrassed with the mess I made of the board because I mounted the caps on the bottom cause I couldn't heat the tracks enough to solder my reused caps with short leads. but must say that i am very satisfied that it is the best sound my system has had, and i have been round the block a couple of times.
Last edited:
decoupling caps and schematic help
I want to start the dac build.
attached is the pin out.
are 0.1Uf x7r 0805 size ceramic caps ok in the decoupling positions ?
Hello ryanj,
Would you mine sharing the parts values and schematic that you have in mind when you make the distinction board?
It gives me more confidence to diy a working dac!!
thanks
kp93300
I want to start the dac build.
attached is the pin out.
are 0.1Uf x7r 0805 size ceramic caps ok in the decoupling positions ?
Hello ryanj,
Would you mine sharing the parts values and schematic that you have in mind when you make the distinction board?
It gives me more confidence to diy a working dac!!
thanks
kp93300
Attachments
a part of the answer :
no ceramic caps for the DEM (the 14 caps), it's well known. Use PPS or acrylic caps : 0805 size max because the layout size of the Distinction board ! I believe only PPS with 0805 could size !
For the fhz cap (a Wima FKP or a smt silver mica do fine) and the matched DEM values in relation to the choice were written: answers above in this thread iirc)
For the 3 voltages rails, local decoupling cap depend on the design of the PS choosed !
I will try something like a 1 uf smt X7R or a 1 uf WIma MKS2 but the one with the 2.5 mm pitch between the legs. if you want absoltly use a 0.1 uf value for the local PPS decoupling, please choose not X7R but COG/NPO...(each time 0805 size or less : 120x smt size doesn't fit in this layout pcb.)
Have you TDA1541 chip or a TDA1541A ?
no ceramic caps for the DEM (the 14 caps), it's well known. Use PPS or acrylic caps : 0805 size max because the layout size of the Distinction board ! I believe only PPS with 0805 could size !
For the fhz cap (a Wima FKP or a smt silver mica do fine) and the matched DEM values in relation to the choice were written: answers above in this thread iirc)
For the 3 voltages rails, local decoupling cap depend on the design of the PS choosed !
I will try something like a 1 uf smt X7R or a 1 uf WIma MKS2 but the one with the 2.5 mm pitch between the legs. if you want absoltly use a 0.1 uf value for the local PPS decoupling, please choose not X7R but COG/NPO...(each time 0805 size or less : 120x smt size doesn't fit in this layout pcb.)
Have you TDA1541 chip or a TDA1541A ?
Last edited:
Hi Peterma,
For the 14 DEM caps of the TDA, experienced fellows testimonie it sounds bad. That's why PPS or Acrylic smt caps are prefered !
For Powerstage, no problem. Above 0.2 uF you will not find COG but only X7R which are bader because of the piezo electric effect : they are cracking.
With smt caps the lesse size the better inductance so the better is the decoupling but the greater is the cracking as well. This is my understanding. COG are nearly free of piezzo effect and size like 0603 can be soldered by diyer (below it's rock 'n roll !). But as the PPS, some find a 1 uF X7R for PS local decoupling is a more credible value to // with the greater value (often 47 uf and more...). If you use above 0805 size : acrylic caps is maybe a better choice... but you have to try... all of those choices depend of the shematic of your regulators on the 3 voltages rail of the TDA
Black Gate BG N & BGN X which are radial are said to be the best here, second discontinued OSCON SP from Sanyo (old organic polymer caps are not maid anymore...). For a local near decoupling, I found the Wima MKS2 but 2.5 mm pitch only (not the common 5 mm) works fine in the Subbu DAC.
For the serie smt resistors : the Sussumu 25 to 50 ppm low noise thin tthick film is a choice often seen these days. Check the size on the datasheets as the traces on the DISTINCTION PCB can be small.
With Through Hole Vishay RN is a good choice but for the passive I/V a better quality like the wirewound Rhopoint serie G5 sourcable at Farnell is my choice.
For the clock cap (TDA1541A not the TDA1541 non A which has the cap embeded) : FKP2 from Wima for radial or silvered Mica or smt mica (John from ECDESIGN choice) are often choosen.
If you want absolutly use ceramic for the 14 decoupling caps of the TDA 1541, please choose smt 0605 NPO/COG (=class 1).
regards
For the 14 DEM caps of the TDA, experienced fellows testimonie it sounds bad. That's why PPS or Acrylic smt caps are prefered !
For Powerstage, no problem. Above 0.2 uF you will not find COG but only X7R which are bader because of the piezo electric effect : they are cracking.
With smt caps the lesse size the better inductance so the better is the decoupling but the greater is the cracking as well. This is my understanding. COG are nearly free of piezzo effect and size like 0603 can be soldered by diyer (below it's rock 'n roll !). But as the PPS, some find a 1 uF X7R for PS local decoupling is a more credible value to // with the greater value (often 47 uf and more...). If you use above 0805 size : acrylic caps is maybe a better choice... but you have to try... all of those choices depend of the shematic of your regulators on the 3 voltages rail of the TDA
Black Gate BG N & BGN X which are radial are said to be the best here, second discontinued OSCON SP from Sanyo (old organic polymer caps are not maid anymore...). For a local near decoupling, I found the Wima MKS2 but 2.5 mm pitch only (not the common 5 mm) works fine in the Subbu DAC.
For the serie smt resistors : the Sussumu 25 to 50 ppm low noise thin tthick film is a choice often seen these days. Check the size on the datasheets as the traces on the DISTINCTION PCB can be small.
With Through Hole Vishay RN is a good choice but for the passive I/V a better quality like the wirewound Rhopoint serie G5 sourcable at Farnell is my choice.
For the clock cap (TDA1541A not the TDA1541 non A which has the cap embeded) : FKP2 from Wima for radial or silvered Mica or smt mica (John from ECDESIGN choice) are often choosen.
If you want absolutly use ceramic for the 14 decoupling caps of the TDA 1541, please choose smt 0605 NPO/COG (=class 1).
regards
Hi kp93300,
Pad size for the 14 decoupling caps are actually 1206 not 805. The bigger pads are 1210.
As for the part values; there are so many options for each part value that all i could offer is what i'm using at the moment.
For the 14 decoupling caps in using 1210 cornell dublier 1uF stacked acrylic film soldered on sidways - not easy to do and very easy to damage cap.
For the power supply electos im using Nichicon FP with a value of about 200uF
Power supply 1210 caps are also 1uF stacked acrylic film cornell dublier.
DEM cap is a 470pF ceramic.(2 options on the PCB - through hole or SMD)
DEM resistor pad size is 1206, a low noise and low tempo co resistor is recommended here with a value of 6k8.
At the moment i have no filtering on AOP and AOL. (also 2 options here) I would recommend a good quality film with a value of around 33nF.
Hope that helps, sorry i haven't been around much to help... been a bit busy.
Ryan
Hi Ryan, my apologize I maid a mistake, my own measurement was just a 0805 size was possible on the 14 caps about the Distinction board ! Problem of vocabulary from me : I believe their name were also the Dynamic element matching (DEM) caps ! pffff dyslexia, I'm ashamed !
What is your advice about Cornell Dublier cap : hand with anti-emc and low temp with rapid soldering ? 380° max ! Or do you talk just about emc when you talk about their fragility ?
Hope your (wood?) construction is going on !
My personal adivse should be not to use the FP cap for the big local decoupling cap because a too mellow soft sound IHMO, but it's a personal taste and a detail at this step of the project. Should advise in the non discontinued caps : United Chemi CON : PSA serie polymer caps. But each swap of caps is an adaptation to your whole system : some caps could work better than others... depend on what you have after the DAC in you Hifi system ! If this cap is just here for lowering the higher impedance fh range of a reg, i should advise a Nichicon PLE serie polymer cap whic has a sublime high end (but a short bass... which is not a problem in this case to low the higher fh of a impedance curve.... we want the lower and the flater at the output of the regs !): try 470 uf/6.3 V : do not exist for the - 16 V rail...
cheers
What is your advice about Cornell Dublier cap : hand with anti-emc and low temp with rapid soldering ? 380° max ! Or do you talk just about emc when you talk about their fragility ?
Hope your (wood?) construction is going on !
My personal adivse should be not to use the FP cap for the big local decoupling cap because a too mellow soft sound IHMO, but it's a personal taste and a detail at this step of the project. Should advise in the non discontinued caps : United Chemi CON : PSA serie polymer caps. But each swap of caps is an adaptation to your whole system : some caps could work better than others... depend on what you have after the DAC in you Hifi system ! If this cap is just here for lowering the higher impedance fh range of a reg, i should advise a Nichicon PLE serie polymer cap whic has a sublime high end (but a short bass... which is not a problem in this case to low the higher fh of a impedance curve.... we want the lower and the flater at the output of the regs !): try 470 uf/6.3 V : do not exist for the - 16 V rail...
cheers
Last edited:
Hey there Damien,
No need for apologies, 805 size will solder on fine, just wanted people to know the actual pad size. My only advice for the 1uF cornel dub caps soldered on sideways is take your time, use good lighting, and maybe about 350°C. A little bit of pre heat with a reflow hot air gun can help speed up the process too.
Im yet to try other electros for the local power supply caps, the FPs have performed pretty good to me with an ESR of about 7 mohm they are definitely not poor performers. But Ill try the ones you have suggested for sure.
The renovations to my house are finally coming to an end so ill get some more time for other things... audio in particular.
How are you going with your DAC build?
No need for apologies, 805 size will solder on fine, just wanted people to know the actual pad size. My only advice for the 1uF cornel dub caps soldered on sideways is take your time, use good lighting, and maybe about 350°C. A little bit of pre heat with a reflow hot air gun can help speed up the process too.
Im yet to try other electros for the local power supply caps, the FPs have performed pretty good to me with an ESR of about 7 mohm they are definitely not poor performers. But Ill try the ones you have suggested for sure.
The renovations to my house are finally coming to an end so ill get some more time for other things... audio in particular.
How are you going with your DAC build?
Yes I really think each layout and pcbs need their own caps tests : I tested many polymers and sometimes a simple 20 m Ohms ESR polymer could perform better than the best 5 m Ohms ESR i have with the same uF/V values... Sometimes dowgrading from a SEPC to a "bader" SEP (Panasonic polymers) can give a better subjective sounding result : like JamesH I believe it's a whole hifi system compensation : ou ears listen to just the whole interaction result, not a particular better cap which can perform better everytime in all the pcbs !
i have the parts for the Distinction boards but the power transformer, because I wait for Ian PCM boards for 6 months and JLSounds have also a good one but I asked they change their bad output layout "GSSS"... for a GSGSGS with a better layout between the chip and ended U-FL connectors like Ian's pcbs. They don't seem to agree for it. What a pity, I believe they will have a lot of customers for this project !
I have to say, I don't use USB source but SPIDF, so things are hardier for me !
I believe I will finish my AYA 2 2014 in first as it it a whole project and my AD1862 DAC before the Distinction ... jut have not the money for all the projects yet ! Many transformers are "relativly" expensive here in France and I find buying 30 euros or more for each local LDO regs iqs just too expensive as i need so many. So my next step if i have time is to try to draw a swap 3 legs pcbs like we see in the PS section of DIYA... or at least copy an existing one as my technical understanding is poor !
But I'm happy our good willing on the "any good TDA-1541 kit" gave the possibility of both the AYA II 2014 and Distinction-1541 coreboard pcb. The end is just a question of buying the good off-shelves parts now...
In fact I believe a bigger choice of good input stage are missing on the DIY market if you don't have an USB source ! Or a good micro computer usb streamer is always missing (Rasb-Pi is not so simple, Arduino the same... you need to buy a little computer with no fans and the cost of the project can explose ! but this is the way for a good sounding result as there is no better alternative than USB to I2S today but SD cards to I2S for the DIY communauty)
Whole SPIDF devices if Ian solution is choosen is very expensive for me. JLsounds if i put a laptop with an USB could be good for the price but they divide their solution in two boards instead tweak their existing one with a better output layout and e.g. the choice to buy it without XO to put your own (NDK e.g....)
One very good sounding solution is the one John from ECDESIGN use with sd card reader and CFT fellow launched a GB. But unluckilly this solution is as expensive as the Ian's one for my money.
At least I believe some needs a basic BOM for the Distinction board for the values and soldering positions. I have no courage to do it and see some owner of the board don't have the courage also to read all what we wrote already in this thread or elswhere... they want a DIY of shelves project like the Subbu and just don't understand the luck they have and all the work and time we spent for the very good resukt of the Distinction-1541 : the most important part was maid with this board at a gifted price as a non commercial project and some are not happy yet (read some questions....) I'm a little disapointed by the lazyness of some, the same as the naive "Any good TDA kit" thread... If we continue we would need to diy a device to help them to **** ! people don't want read anymore... they rephrase always ancient questions already answered and believe the are smart to ask to people who work for them... internet young mode even with some old fellows... I believe DIYA will swap on Twitter soon !
Hummm sorry I 'm in Chewie on mod !
see you Ryan, Hé it's the summer in Australia, here we are going to arrive in the cold days...
i have the parts for the Distinction boards but the power transformer, because I wait for Ian PCM boards for 6 months and JLSounds have also a good one but I asked they change their bad output layout "GSSS"... for a GSGSGS with a better layout between the chip and ended U-FL connectors like Ian's pcbs. They don't seem to agree for it. What a pity, I believe they will have a lot of customers for this project !
I have to say, I don't use USB source but SPIDF, so things are hardier for me !
I believe I will finish my AYA 2 2014 in first as it it a whole project and my AD1862 DAC before the Distinction ... jut have not the money for all the projects yet ! Many transformers are "relativly" expensive here in France and I find buying 30 euros or more for each local LDO regs iqs just too expensive as i need so many. So my next step if i have time is to try to draw a swap 3 legs pcbs like we see in the PS section of DIYA... or at least copy an existing one as my technical understanding is poor !
But I'm happy our good willing on the "any good TDA-1541 kit" gave the possibility of both the AYA II 2014 and Distinction-1541 coreboard pcb. The end is just a question of buying the good off-shelves parts now...
In fact I believe a bigger choice of good input stage are missing on the DIY market if you don't have an USB source ! Or a good micro computer usb streamer is always missing (Rasb-Pi is not so simple, Arduino the same... you need to buy a little computer with no fans and the cost of the project can explose ! but this is the way for a good sounding result as there is no better alternative than USB to I2S today but SD cards to I2S for the DIY communauty)
Whole SPIDF devices if Ian solution is choosen is very expensive for me. JLsounds if i put a laptop with an USB could be good for the price but they divide their solution in two boards instead tweak their existing one with a better output layout and e.g. the choice to buy it without XO to put your own (NDK e.g....)
One very good sounding solution is the one John from ECDESIGN use with sd card reader and CFT fellow launched a GB. But unluckilly this solution is as expensive as the Ian's one for my money.
At least I believe some needs a basic BOM for the Distinction board for the values and soldering positions. I have no courage to do it and see some owner of the board don't have the courage also to read all what we wrote already in this thread or elswhere... they want a DIY of shelves project like the Subbu and just don't understand the luck they have and all the work and time we spent for the very good resukt of the Distinction-1541 : the most important part was maid with this board at a gifted price as a non commercial project and some are not happy yet (read some questions....) I'm a little disapointed by the lazyness of some, the same as the naive "Any good TDA kit" thread... If we continue we would need to diy a device to help them to **** ! people don't want read anymore... they rephrase always ancient questions already answered and believe the are smart to ask to people who work for them... internet young mode even with some old fellows... I believe DIYA will swap on Twitter soon !
Hummm sorry I 'm in Chewie on mod !
see you Ryan, Hé it's the summer in Australia, here we are going to arrive in the cold days...
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.