Now I was supprised to see there is only 5 components on the xo.
2 inductors,2caps and a resistor. The woofers are pretty decently built, feel pretty solid.
Bostoswoop,
I've always wanted to clone the BPX which is this guys big brother it has 2 woofer and a tweeter on each side. I don't have the equipment to do measurements so I haven't really pursued it. However I have thought of ordering parts to clone this one since I would have a bassis for comparison but alas I always have more ideas than money
2 inductors,2caps and a resistor. The woofers are pretty decently built, feel pretty solid.
Bostoswoop,
I've always wanted to clone the BPX which is this guys big brother it has 2 woofer and a tweeter on each side. I don't have the equipment to do measurements so I haven't really pursued it. However I have thought of ordering parts to clone this one since I would have a bassis for comparison but alas I always have more ideas than money
Hey Mark dont feel bad i have that same problem. (no money big ideas)
Those are some great pics although not sure if i would have had the stones to take it apart those are not cheap.
Compact in there tho. I have never had any experiance with Definative tech speakers.
Rob offerd up an idea with the KEF copy the full range/co ax drviers arent a bad idea minimal Xover. And that horn one was kinda cool to. Not sure how horns like that sound tho.....
Not sure what my best bet is now.
In the general opinion if you were lookin for pair dipole/bipole surounds for HT and or music what would ya build.
Cost is a factor and i have no experiance building Xo's but am willing to give it a wirrll. Cabinets arent a problem i have access to wood working tools aplenty.
Also I am using a standard Denon 7.1 reciever running all my other speakers at 8 ohms max is 95W i believe also. (porbly makes no dif but hey more info is better)
Those are some great pics although not sure if i would have had the stones to take it apart those are not cheap.
Compact in there tho. I have never had any experiance with Definative tech speakers. Rob offerd up an idea with the KEF copy the full range/co ax drviers arent a bad idea minimal Xover. And that horn one was kinda cool to. Not sure how horns like that sound tho.....
Not sure what my best bet is now.
In the general opinion if you were lookin for pair dipole/bipole surounds for HT and or music what would ya build.
Cost is a factor and i have no experiance building Xo's but am willing to give it a wirrll. Cabinets arent a problem i have access to wood working tools aplenty.
Also I am using a standard Denon 7.1 reciever running all my other speakers at 8 ohms max is 95W i believe also. (porbly makes no dif but hey more info is better)
I have the KEF Q2ds surround dipoles. (The ones with the fake wood veneer!) They do serve very nicely as surround speakers for movies. If I was into multichannel music (SACD or DVD-A), which I am not, then I would use monopoles all around. Surround dipoles are nice for movies because they are nonlocalizable if positioned properly, but they will not satisfy some audio purists because their nonlocalizable quality means that they do not image very precisely.
The KEF Q2ds are not switchable to bipole. Polk, B&W, Energy, and others make switchable models. I use dipole surrounds in the side surround position and monopoles in the back surround position. As long as the dipoles can be placed so that the listening position is within the "null area" of the dipoles, then there is not much added benefit to having a bipole option.
Here is a diagram from Polk illustrating dipole vs. bipole.
The KEF Q2ds are not switchable to bipole. Polk, B&W, Energy, and others make switchable models. I use dipole surrounds in the side surround position and monopoles in the back surround position. As long as the dipoles can be placed so that the listening position is within the "null area" of the dipoles, then there is not much added benefit to having a bipole option.
Here is a diagram from Polk illustrating dipole vs. bipole.
Madisound sells some coaxial Seas drivers with matching crossovers. I am considering using them to build a center channel speaker. You might also be able to make a surround dipole with two coaxial drivers and one crossover, and simply split the crossover output to both drivers. But each woofer is 8 ohms and each tweeter is 6 ohms, so you would halve that with two drivers in parallel.
Bostonswoop,
My money situation really changed when my daughter came along. Lucky for me I already had a decent HT set-up .
What model denon do you have? I have a avr-3300,to give you a idea how old it is! I have run a set of D8's for over a year, which should be about 4 ohm speakers. Never had it shutdown or anything even durung the ext. cuts of LOTR.
I saw Rob's recommedation also looks doable.I just don't know where to find co-ax drivers that aren't for car audio?
There are some small drivers like the WR125ST but they are 50.00 ea. so not really saving money there. Though with the wide frequency range you might be abe to get away with a 1st order xo(boo,hiss). Which is the simplest of all xo's.
GR does have a rear surround kit for 229.00 a pair. But that might be too much? They aren't bipoles but do use room boundaries to reflect the sound.
There is also the TangBand W3-871 which many have used without a xo. They are on sale at PE for 13.50 ea.
I wonder what 4 of them wired in two parallel sets then the two sets wired in series (not out of phase). Should get a 6.6ohm load and mount them in a smaller box similar to my bp2x's.Four of them would only be 54.00 +shipping
Won't play very low but if you can set the xo on your reciever to say 150Hz. Might do the trick?
Maybe some one more familiar with these drivers might be able to help out here. Or ask someone in the fullrange forum to lend a hand.
This is where I have the most trouble with diy. There is kind of a "leap of faith" required. One persons idea of good sound is quite different from person to person.
My money situation really changed when my daughter came along. Lucky for me I already had a decent HT set-up
.What model denon do you have? I have a avr-3300,to give you a idea how old it is! I have run a set of D8's for over a year, which should be about 4 ohm speakers. Never had it shutdown or anything even durung the ext. cuts of LOTR.
I saw Rob's recommedation also looks doable.I just don't know where to find co-ax drivers that aren't for car audio?
There are some small drivers like the WR125ST but they are 50.00 ea. so not really saving money there. Though with the wide frequency range you might be abe to get away with a 1st order xo(boo,hiss). Which is the simplest of all xo's.
GR does have a rear surround kit for 229.00 a pair. But that might be too much? They aren't bipoles but do use room boundaries to reflect the sound.
There is also the TangBand W3-871 which many have used without a xo. They are on sale at PE for 13.50 ea.
I wonder what 4 of them wired in two parallel sets then the two sets wired in series (not out of phase). Should get a 6.6ohm load and mount them in a smaller box similar to my bp2x's.Four of them would only be 54.00 +shipping
Won't play very low but if you can set the xo on your reciever to say 150Hz. Might do the trick?
Maybe some one more familiar with these drivers might be able to help out here. Or ask someone in the fullrange forum to lend a hand.This is where I have the most trouble with diy. There is kind of a "leap of faith" required. One persons idea of good sound is quite different from person to person.
Mark i have the Denon AVR 2803 its a couple years old but i like it alot.
How bout this combo ????
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-818&scqty=4
The Tang Band 4"
and the
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-306&scqty=2
the dayton 6 1/2 classic
So do one dayton flanked by the two Tang Band in sealed box's with a 1st order Xover? Opinions?
Reason i went with the Dayton classic is cost well thats why the tang bands also. total for them from PE is about 110 with shipping. I am open to other suggestions around the same price point tho within 10 bucks or so.
Is a 1st ord Xover bad? Clueless of Xovers in general.....
How bout this combo ????
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-818&scqty=4
The Tang Band 4"
and the
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-306&scqty=2
the dayton 6 1/2 classic
So do one dayton flanked by the two Tang Band in sealed box's with a 1st order Xover? Opinions?
Reason i went with the Dayton classic is cost well thats why the tang bands also. total for them from PE is about 110 with shipping. I am open to other suggestions around the same price point tho within 10 bucks or so.
Is a 1st ord Xover bad? Clueless of Xovers in general.....
I think the 3" TB driver would be better since it will play higher,like you said. As far as the power handling goes there are people that have driven them full range w/100W. Now I don't know how loud you can play them like that.
With the 6.5" dayton taking the lowend I don't know if the low xmax and low power handling will be as much of an issue. I wouldn't think so but I have been wrong before.
I assume you are looking at a box like the KEF's?
I would think you could get away with a 1st order xo. Some people are very much agaisnt it though. If you went with say a 800Hz xo point the tb would be down 24db @ 100Hz but the woofer would only be down 18db @ 3,200Hz might be pushing it. You need someone more familiar with xo design than me. I dont think you would need naffle step compensation since it is a wall mount. But again I may be wrong.
Whether you are running them bipole or dipole is a matter of how you wire the tb's together. If you reverse the phase of one of them you will have a dipole if you keep them in phase it would be a bipole.
I like your idea though.
With the 6.5" dayton taking the lowend I don't know if the low xmax and low power handling will be as much of an issue. I wouldn't think so but I have been wrong before.
I assume you are looking at a box like the KEF's?
I would think you could get away with a 1st order xo. Some people are very much agaisnt it though. If you went with say a 800Hz xo point the tb would be down 24db @ 100Hz but the woofer would only be down 18db @ 3,200Hz might be pushing it. You need someone more familiar with xo design than me. I dont think you would need naffle step compensation since it is a wall mount. But again I may be wrong.
Whether you are running them bipole or dipole is a matter of how you wire the tb's together. If you reverse the phase of one of them you will have a dipole if you keep them in phase it would be a bipole.
I like your idea though.
To be honest Mark I dont have a clue about crossovers......
I am reading speaker building 201 but havent yet got into the xover section, and i may be to dense to figure it out anyway (at least rite now being a about a month into speaker DIY)
I believe i can just use a box calculator for the volume of enclosures and i can figure out a design build wise. but the wiring and xover are bit overwhelming for me at this point....
Im not even sure if this combo of speakers will work well . lol
I am reading speaker building 201 but havent yet got into the xover section, and i may be to dense to figure it out anyway (at least rite now being a about a month into speaker DIY)
I believe i can just use a box calculator for the volume of enclosures and i can figure out a design build wise. but the wiring and xover are bit overwhelming for me at this point....
Im not even sure if this combo of speakers will work well . lol
Ok how about a 2nd order linkwitz-riley, high pass impedence would be 6.6Ohms and low pass Impedence would be 8 Ohms with a frequency of 800Hz ?
that would put me per that Calculation at a
C1 of 15.0757575uF
L1 of 2.625975mh
and a
C2 of 12.4375uF
L2 of 3.18300mH
will this work properly?
And if so can the double pole double throw switch to change polarity be used on the tang bands?
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(qgeialqib2oj4zmnt4ur2145)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=31504&Source=froogle
and would this switch do it if so?
that would put me per that Calculation at a
C1 of 15.0757575uF
L1 of 2.625975mh
and a
C2 of 12.4375uF
L2 of 3.18300mH
will this work properly?
And if so can the double pole double throw switch to change polarity be used on the tang bands?
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(qgeialqib2oj4zmnt4ur2145)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=31504&Source=froogle
and would this switch do it if so?
Swoop,
Here's a link to Dave Brown's website. He documented a design for surround speakers with a bipole/dipole switch. I think that's what you're looking for.
http://users.d-web.com/dbrown/db1661/db1661.htm
Hong
Here's a link to Dave Brown's website. He documented a design for surround speakers with a bipole/dipole switch. I think that's what you're looking for.
http://users.d-web.com/dbrown/db1661/db1661.htm
Hong
Hongrn that website is very helpfull. Thanks very much.
That design is sorta what i was aming for although i dont want to use two woofers just one per. But the switch set up is what i needed and i think answerd Mark and my question.... or maybe just mine i think mark had a firmer grasp on it then i did anyway. lol.
Thanks Cal also for watching this and givng your wisdom.
with the Xover numbers i put up would a zobel be nessary ? or would a notch filter be nessary? Or both?
Just wonder if those full range tang bands needed anything like that or if those are just a good addition(the additional filters).
Sam
Hey mark did i ever tell you i have 4 girls? 9mths to 8yrs old.
That design is sorta what i was aming for although i dont want to use two woofers just one per. But the switch set up is what i needed and i think answerd Mark and my question.... or maybe just mine i think mark had a firmer grasp on it then i did anyway. lol.
Thanks Cal also for watching this and givng your wisdom.
with the Xover numbers i put up would a zobel be nessary ? or would a notch filter be nessary? Or both?
Just wonder if those full range tang bands needed anything like that or if those are just a good addition(the additional filters).
Sam
Hey mark did i ever tell you i have 4 girls? 9mths to 8yrs old.
"Hey mark did i ever tell you i have 4 girls? 9mths to 8yrs old."
Wow, how do you manage?:cunfused:Here I thought being out numbered 2 to 1 was bad.
On a more serious note that design hongrn linked to might be a better bet. Since it looks like a proven design. Also no one has commented on the Tb's being used this way.It seems like I read somewhere they(tb's) do best in a minimal diffraction cabinet.I think it might have been at zaphaudio.com.
It might be wiser to use tweeters since the ones mentioned in the link are only a couple of dollars more than the Tb's.
Also I stumbled across this
' Now I know this is probably out of your price range but. I found it while going through another forum and a guy mentioned buying the drivers adn xo parts from them and building the cabinets and assembling the xo's himself. I don't know how much cheaper it would be but might be worth calling and finding out.
Wow, how do you manage?:cunfused:Here I thought being out numbered 2 to 1 was bad.
On a more serious note that design hongrn linked to might be a better bet. Since it looks like a proven design. Also no one has commented on the Tb's being used this way.It seems like I read somewhere they(tb's) do best in a minimal diffraction cabinet.I think it might have been at zaphaudio.com.
It might be wiser to use tweeters since the ones mentioned in the link are only a couple of dollars more than the Tb's.
Also I stumbled across this
' Now I know this is probably out of your price range but. I found it while going through another forum and a guy mentioned buying the drivers adn xo parts from them and building the cabinets and assembling the xo's himself. I don't know how much cheaper it would be but might be worth calling and finding out.
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