Yep..... there are many good guys, skilled folks, very intelligent people that
said the same as you said.... i have to respect because i cannot plug my brain in those folks brain to perceive what they are perceived.... maybe they are better in hearing than i am.
It is very possible that i can be wrong.... but this is not that my bio chemical brain is showing me all time long.
One thing is have sure, i can be more happy inside my ignorance than others that had so big concerns about combination of multiple tollerances and things alike.... i can be happy with something less expensive and less sophisticated, for sure my happyness will cost less.
regards,
Carlos
said the same as you said.... i have to respect because i cannot plug my brain in those folks brain to perceive what they are perceived.... maybe they are better in hearing than i am.
It is very possible that i can be wrong.... but this is not that my bio chemical brain is showing me all time long.
One thing is have sure, i can be more happy inside my ignorance than others that had so big concerns about combination of multiple tollerances and things alike.... i can be happy with something less expensive and less sophisticated, for sure my happyness will cost less.
regards,
Carlos
Good Morning Carlos
I think my hearing is of a quality similar to yours.
I attended a gathering of speaker builders a few years ago. We had the chance to listen to one pair of fine speakers through 2 different crossovers. The difference between the crossovers was one capacitor. One which was a bi-polar electrolytic. The other was a "special" film and foil type seen advertised and costing $$$.
A control switch could be operated from the listening position. Pushing alternate buttons switched a relay which selected alternate capacitors. The listeners knew when they changed capacitors, but did not know which capacitor they were "hearing".
I could not tell the difference. Many could not. There was among us an individual who got it right about 80% of the time. I had to ask myself: "What am I missing?" "What's wrong with my hearing?"
I wish I had spent more time with it to possibly "learn" to hear better. It still puzzles me/bothers me that there are some things I don't "hear".
Oh well, I still enjoy the music!
Regards
I think my hearing is of a quality similar to yours.
I attended a gathering of speaker builders a few years ago. We had the chance to listen to one pair of fine speakers through 2 different crossovers. The difference between the crossovers was one capacitor. One which was a bi-polar electrolytic. The other was a "special" film and foil type seen advertised and costing $$$.
A control switch could be operated from the listening position. Pushing alternate buttons switched a relay which selected alternate capacitors. The listeners knew when they changed capacitors, but did not know which capacitor they were "hearing".
I could not tell the difference. Many could not. There was among us an individual who got it right about 80% of the time. I had to ask myself: "What am I missing?" "What's wrong with my hearing?"
I wish I had spent more time with it to possibly "learn" to hear better. It still puzzles me/bothers me that there are some things I don't "hear".
Oh well, I still enjoy the music!
Regards
Yes Mongo...it is a pitty that i cannot perceive those things too
Rabbitz.... i agree they are better, women and children can evaluate better... i do use my wife and daugther to tell me differences, and i see some i cannot perceive.
I want to ask you, please, to send me your evaluation of your Cambridge XD into the first seconds you listen to it.
I really thing that we cannot give time to ears plus brain to adjust...but really i thing you will not be able to give me correct informations as you have "tuned" your speaker to the Cambridge
So, it is not more the Cambridge into a flat speaker, now a days you have a Cambridge with a matched speaker.
Yep... i think you may have another one entirelly flat, not tweaked... this will give me some informations i will love to know.
Send me by mail dear Rabbitz.
regards,
Carlos
Rabbitz.... i agree they are better, women and children can evaluate better... i do use my wife and daugther to tell me differences, and i see some i cannot perceive.
I want to ask you, please, to send me your evaluation of your Cambridge XD into the first seconds you listen to it.
I really thing that we cannot give time to ears plus brain to adjust...but really i thing you will not be able to give me correct informations as you have "tuned" your speaker to the Cambridge
So, it is not more the Cambridge into a flat speaker, now a days you have a Cambridge with a matched speaker.
Yep... i think you may have another one entirelly flat, not tweaked... this will give me some informations i will love to know.
Send me by mail dear Rabbitz.
regards,
Carlos
sandyK wrote:
Thanks sandyK. It is a good explaination for what I have experienced.
I've always been sensitive to the high frequency performance of my fi-fi, and to the high frequency content of the music, so I was apprehensive of losing that ability as I grew older.
I'm now 74 and that time has not yet arrived. No doubt there has been a change, but not to the extent that it is very evident, when listening to music. Sure, my hearing of test tones is restricted, falling away in level above 12 kHz.
I can still easily detect changes to my system. For example, after recently improving the resolution of my Turntable front end, I now find the need to change the cartridge settings (VTA and bias) often, even during play.
I had already figured that the reason that I still have a good sense of the high frequencies in music might be the effect of harmonics in music signals. sandyK's quote reinforces this thought .
billabong.
Thanks sandyK. It is a good explaination for what I have experienced.
I've always been sensitive to the high frequency performance of my fi-fi, and to the high frequency content of the music, so I was apprehensive of losing that ability as I grew older.
I'm now 74 and that time has not yet arrived. No doubt there has been a change, but not to the extent that it is very evident, when listening to music. Sure, my hearing of test tones is restricted, falling away in level above 12 kHz.
I can still easily detect changes to my system. For example, after recently improving the resolution of my Turntable front end, I now find the need to change the cartridge settings (VTA and bias) often, even during play.
I had already figured that the reason that I still have a good sense of the high frequencies in music might be the effect of harmonics in music signals. sandyK's quote reinforces this thought .
billabong.
I dont think Carlos is saying that expensive caps do not produce higher frequencies. This may not be what many of you intended to say, but reading the posts they end up being about frequencies that some can and can not hear. I have not yet read where anyone said a regular, say, Nichicon or Panasonic, could not transmit the same frequencies. So you know, there is no argumentative tone here. I just agree with Carlos that there is no music in a capacitor that gets added to the music recorded to your CD. The capacitor or resistor simply allows for a certain amount of capacitance or resistance. Its math. For instance, Black Gate... do they add something to their capacitor other than winding a conductor and an insulator? It would have to be the addition of some musical electrical component, otherwise its nothing different than a Sprague. They all buy their foil and insulator from the same place. Maybe Black Gate is much more accurate with their capacitance. A resistor is a resistor is a resistor. You can make one with a graphite pencil on a piece of paper and put your + and - on it as a pot moving one closer to the other along your pencil drawn line. The inside of a resistor is nothing more than a certain length of carbon. Carbon is not able to be altered. Its an element. The simplest thing on earth. More or less of it could make a difference, but there is no other kind of carbon. Its all just carbon.
I have to eat lunch. This carbon based creature is being called up from the basement.
Uriah
I will say that my Fostex sound way different than the first listen. The first listen was unbearable and unforgettable. Terrible. I played them whenever I would leave the house and after a week or so they sounded much better. But I think that is a different issue since they are something that moves and flexes and may not flex back to the same position every time they are used.
I have to eat lunch. This carbon based creature is being called up from the basement.
Uriah
I will say that my Fostex sound way different than the first listen. The first listen was unbearable and unforgettable. Terrible. I played them whenever I would leave the house and after a week or so they sounded much better. But I think that is a different issue since they are something that moves and flexes and may not flex back to the same position every time they are used.
Thanks Udailey, i am glad to have UDaily with me
Was helpfull your text...needs courage to come and say that a resistance is a resistance and not more than a resistance when some folks thinks it has enormous inductance and huge capacitance too.
We will shock many folks.... i think was not a very good idea to start this conversation.
I was thinking.... the one that have paid enormous money for a Teflon will feel unconfortable.....better not to feed the subject anymore...let them dream and be happy..... this is more important.
I have started the mess...and i will finish with that and now..if someone felt offended i can remove some post, considered annoying or offensive...but this conversations is CLOSED now!
I would invite my beloved friends to cooperate with me... i made a ship to start all that, but i am doing some to finish with the subject...help me, please, to start some conversation about the main thread subject..the Dx Amplifier.
Thank you all, in advance, by the comprehension and i am sorry to disturb some of you with my ideas.
Be sure that even having different ideas, i felt your friendship and interest to talk and discuss with me, extremelly valuable and pleasant to me...i enjoy you all folks, mates i have, fellows, partners into this beautifull long trip to sonics.
I respect your knowledge, even not understanding and having the real life experience you may had...so...we can march together beeing complementary in a very friendly way.
regards,
Carlos
Was helpfull your text...needs courage to come and say that a resistance is a resistance and not more than a resistance when some folks thinks it has enormous inductance and huge capacitance too.
We will shock many folks.... i think was not a very good idea to start this conversation.
I was thinking.... the one that have paid enormous money for a Teflon will feel unconfortable.....better not to feed the subject anymore...let them dream and be happy..... this is more important.
I have started the mess...and i will finish with that and now..if someone felt offended i can remove some post, considered annoying or offensive...but this conversations is CLOSED now!
I would invite my beloved friends to cooperate with me... i made a ship to start all that, but i am doing some to finish with the subject...help me, please, to start some conversation about the main thread subject..the Dx Amplifier.
Thank you all, in advance, by the comprehension and i am sorry to disturb some of you with my ideas.
Be sure that even having different ideas, i felt your friendship and interest to talk and discuss with me, extremelly valuable and pleasant to me...i enjoy you all folks, mates i have, fellows, partners into this beautifull long trip to sonics.
I respect your knowledge, even not understanding and having the real life experience you may had...so...we can march together beeing complementary in a very friendly way.
regards,
Carlos
I dont think Carlos is saying that expensive caps do not produce higher frequencies. This may not be what many of you intended to say, but reading the posts they end up being about frequencies that some can and can not hear. I have not yet read where anyone said a regular, say, Nichicon or Panasonic, could not transmit the same frequencies. So you know, there is no argumentative tone here. I just agree with Carlos that there is no music in a capacitor that gets added to the music recorded to your CD. The capacitor or resistor simply allows for a certain amount of capacitance or resistance. Its math. For instance, Black Gate... do they add something to their capacitor other than winding a conductor and an insulator? It would have to be the addition of some musical electrical component, otherwise its nothing different than a Sprague. They all buy their foil and insulator from the same place. Maybe Black Gate is much more accurate with their capacitance. A resistor is a resistor is a resistor. You can make one with a graphite pencil on a piece of paper and put your + and - on it as a pot moving one closer to the other along your pencil drawn line. The inside of a resistor is nothing more than a certain length of carbon. Carbon is not able to be altered. Its an element. The simplest thing on earth. More or less of it could make a difference, but there is no other kind of carbon. Its all just carbon.
I have to eat lunch. This carbon based creature is being called up from the basement.
Uriah
I will say that my Fostex sound way different than the first listen. The first listen was unbearable and unforgettable. Terrible. I played them whenever I would leave the house and after a week or so they sounded much better. But I think that is a different issue since they are something that moves and flexes and may not flex back to the same position every time they are used. [/QUOTE]
Hi,
Blackgate caps were made by Rubycon using special proprietary material, that no one else used. Do a search on the web and you will get the technical data.
I do not agree that a resistor is a resistror. If you were correct we would not have a need for precision metal film low ppm resistors.
There is an isssue with the material being used in components that cannot be over looked as you have above.
Regards
Harry
I have to eat lunch. This carbon based creature is being called up from the basement.
Uriah
I will say that my Fostex sound way different than the first listen. The first listen was unbearable and unforgettable. Terrible. I played them whenever I would leave the house and after a week or so they sounded much better. But I think that is a different issue since they are something that moves and flexes and may not flex back to the same position every time they are used. [/QUOTE]
Hi,
Blackgate caps were made by Rubycon using special proprietary material, that no one else used. Do a search on the web and you will get the technical data.
I do not agree that a resistor is a resistror. If you were correct we would not have a need for precision metal film low ppm resistors.
There is an isssue with the material being used in components that cannot be over looked as you have above.
Regards
Harry
Dx Amplifier is the only amplifier that can put "Greek and Troyan" working together
in perfect harmony.... you can use the condenser you conclude as the best.... every capacitor will produce nice sound in this amplifier... it may even sound better if you select better resistances.
The amplifier has excelent sonics qualities, even if you made a mistake and select the worst capacitor on earth.
Build a Dx Amplifier and use Black gates, Teflon units, Silver Mica or ceramics.... and tell me if you dislike it.
Hundreds have built....now a days those units are reproducing alike flu viruses, hundreds are beeing constructed... no one said sounds bad...everybody happy, dancing and feeling good.
I suppose i have found, by accident, and do not know where is the circuit...but i think i have found the "Automatic Capacitor and Resistances effect cancelling system".... ACRACS!... as you can put the one you have (I have black gates here too... also Silver Mica and Teflon...also Panasonic ones.... also metal film) and will sound good.....use the one you prefer...maybe will sound even better.
Sounds very good with the poor condensers and resistances... i think may sound better with better parts.
regards,
Carlos
in perfect harmony.... you can use the condenser you conclude as the best.... every capacitor will produce nice sound in this amplifier... it may even sound better if you select better resistances.
The amplifier has excelent sonics qualities, even if you made a mistake and select the worst capacitor on earth.
Build a Dx Amplifier and use Black gates, Teflon units, Silver Mica or ceramics.... and tell me if you dislike it.
Hundreds have built....now a days those units are reproducing alike flu viruses, hundreds are beeing constructed... no one said sounds bad...everybody happy, dancing and feeling good.
I suppose i have found, by accident, and do not know where is the circuit...but i think i have found the "Automatic Capacitor and Resistances effect cancelling system".... ACRACS!... as you can put the one you have (I have black gates here too... also Silver Mica and Teflon...also Panasonic ones.... also metal film) and will sound good.....use the one you prefer...maybe will sound even better.
Sounds very good with the poor condensers and resistances... i think may sound better with better parts.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
I hope, my friend Hurricane would never enter this forum
I am happy he do not knows a word of english.
Furacão.... or Hurricane, a local friend come to me
with a dismounted.... semi dismounted old electrolitic
condenser.
He said to me:
- " This one is better... have lower capacitances as the coil is
now more large... air gap that creates air convection and
make it work more cool... also less spinning to the electrons,
this way they will move faster as will not receive efects of
dinamic forces during its translation around the condenser
center... the oil was keept, that electrolitic condenser had
a fluid alike oil inside... he said this would lubricate electrons,
with less abrasive forces will travel faster...maybe faster than
ligth (hehe..nothing can go faster)... the distance, bigger from
metal blades would result less capacitive effect that attach
electrons to blades, creating movement resistance... also
he said that some nice reverberations happens as local
acoustic feedback, the sound will vibrate the electrolitic
condenser loosen foils and this will modulate sound that will
be more rich after that."
He said that very serious... the guy is terrible.
Carlos
I am happy he do not knows a word of english.
Furacão.... or Hurricane, a local friend come to me
with a dismounted.... semi dismounted old electrolitic
condenser.
He said to me:
- " This one is better... have lower capacitances as the coil is
now more large... air gap that creates air convection and
make it work more cool... also less spinning to the electrons,
this way they will move faster as will not receive efects of
dinamic forces during its translation around the condenser
center... the oil was keept, that electrolitic condenser had
a fluid alike oil inside... he said this would lubricate electrons,
with less abrasive forces will travel faster...maybe faster than
ligth (hehe..nothing can go faster)... the distance, bigger from
metal blades would result less capacitive effect that attach
electrons to blades, creating movement resistance... also
he said that some nice reverberations happens as local
acoustic feedback, the sound will vibrate the electrolitic
condenser loosen foils and this will modulate sound that will
be more rich after that."
He said that very serious... the guy is terrible.
Carlos
Hurricane,a local friend
"... also
he said that some nice reverberations happens as local
acoustic feedback, the sound will vibrate the electrolitic
condenser loosen foils and this will modulate sound that will
be more rich after that."
Carlos.
The rest of that was hilarious, but surprisingly, the part I quoted above,actually has a grain of truth to it ! The sound is more likely
to be worse , though. Recently, one capacitor manufacturer patented an internal dampening method to reduce this effect. Many modifiers even dampen large electrolytic capacitors with sound deadening material (bitumen, adhesive felt etc.)to reduce this effect (not me !) Some people have even found that shielding the larger non electrolytic capacitors (e.g. Polypropylene) with something like copper foil, and earthing the foil, reduces hash originating from rectifier switching pulses etc. Most people can not hear these types of things, BUT, try connecting a high quality pair of headphones to your amplifiers via suitable dropping resistors, and I bet that even you, will hear some of these changes due to electrolytic electrolyte formulation etc. That doesn't mean that I would ever use a Blackgate electrolytic capacitor though!
Like you , I was a sceptic, until I started using headphones more often with higher quality source material and components.
SandyK
"... also
he said that some nice reverberations happens as local
acoustic feedback, the sound will vibrate the electrolitic
condenser loosen foils and this will modulate sound that will
be more rich after that."
Carlos.
The rest of that was hilarious, but surprisingly, the part I quoted above,actually has a grain of truth to it ! The sound is more likely
to be worse , though. Recently, one capacitor manufacturer patented an internal dampening method to reduce this effect. Many modifiers even dampen large electrolytic capacitors with sound deadening material (bitumen, adhesive felt etc.)to reduce this effect (not me !) Some people have even found that shielding the larger non electrolytic capacitors (e.g. Polypropylene) with something like copper foil, and earthing the foil, reduces hash originating from rectifier switching pulses etc. Most people can not hear these types of things, BUT, try connecting a high quality pair of headphones to your amplifiers via suitable dropping resistors, and I bet that even you, will hear some of these changes due to electrolytic electrolyte formulation etc. That doesn't mean that I would ever use a Blackgate electrolytic capacitor though!
Like you , I was a sceptic, until I started using headphones more often with higher quality source material and components.
SandyK
Re: Yes Mongo...it is a pitty that i cannot perceive those things too
I sent mail.
I'm afraid I'll never know what it sounds like as was faulty with a buzzing transformer. The sound started off with a lot of promise with fantastic mids but has been getting worse day by day so it's going back, never to be seen or heard again.
The sound now is boring, no life, no drive or punch, rolled off top end and ill defined bottom end. Maybe the rail voltage is sinking ala Titanic.
The Lifeforce and an AKSA 55N have gone back in and what a relief.
destroyer X said:
I sent mail.
I'm afraid I'll never know what it sounds like as was faulty with a buzzing transformer. The sound started off with a lot of promise with fantastic mids but has been getting worse day by day so it's going back, never to be seen or heard again.
The sound now is boring, no life, no drive or punch, rolled off top end and ill defined bottom end. Maybe the rail voltage is sinking ala Titanic.
The Lifeforce and an AKSA 55N have gone back in and what a relief.
Good to listen something from you dear Rabbitz.
Yes AndyK..... microphonic things happens too, into circuits, into electronic tubes and that reverberation story makes sense i know.
thank you..
I strong appreciate the way you are conducting the construction of your amplifier Nico....lovely way.
regards,
Carlos
Yes AndyK..... microphonic things happens too, into circuits, into electronic tubes and that reverberation story makes sense i know.
thank you..
I strong appreciate the way you are conducting the construction of your amplifier Nico....lovely way.
regards,
Carlos
re: Veroboard
A few post back I saw you guys were talking about Veroboard (stripboard).
Years ago I worked in the telecom industry in the UK (STC for all you older folks), building prototypes for measurements. I was trained to use veroboard, and using a specific system of drawing the components/circuit on graph paper.
I have always found this the best way to prototype and even build large finished circuits. I have been surprised that I haven't seen this system used more in DIY. Also, the boards are not that common in the US.
Anyone else use these methods?
Maybe one day I'll do a website outlining the system. It's very good for reducing mistakes.
over and out
~~Andrew~~
A few post back I saw you guys were talking about Veroboard (stripboard).
Years ago I worked in the telecom industry in the UK (STC for all you older folks), building prototypes for measurements. I was trained to use veroboard, and using a specific system of drawing the components/circuit on graph paper.
I have always found this the best way to prototype and even build large finished circuits. I have been surprised that I haven't seen this system used more in DIY. Also, the boards are not that common in the US.
Anyone else use these methods?
Maybe one day I'll do a website outlining the system. It's very good for reducing mistakes.
over and out
~~Andrew~~
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