UK Europe voltage
Oh No we're not.
We are in Europe and we have been harmonised (was it painfull for you).
We are all on 230Vac (officially that is).
Until you phone your supplier and discover all they did was widen the tolerances to make it look like we had changed from 240Vac to 230Vac.
I am regularly between 238Vac & 244Vac and outside those limits only rarely. I design for 216Vac to 254Vac, the official limits.
Oh No we're not.
We are in Europe and we have been harmonised (was it painfull for you).
We are all on 230Vac (officially that is).
Until you phone your supplier and discover all they did was widen the tolerances to make it look like we had changed from 240Vac to 230Vac.
I am regularly between 238Vac & 244Vac and outside those limits only rarely. I design for 216Vac to 254Vac, the official limits.
OK then......
There is indeed another unused pair of primary connections for use in inharmonious countries.
Large diodes are parallelled pairs of PFR852 Fast Recovery type.
Datasheet: http://www.tranzistoare.ro/datasheets/37/39763_DS.pdf
The 3K9 resistors are parallelled in pairs across each rail as bleeders for the big caps.
There are Y rated 4700pF caps across each rail directly at the transformer secondaries.
(Another two 4700pF across the mains switch.)
I wonder if there is any notable interaction between those small caps and bleeders here?
Live long and prosper,
Martin.
There is indeed another unused pair of primary connections for use in inharmonious countries.
Large diodes are parallelled pairs of PFR852 Fast Recovery type.
Datasheet: http://www.tranzistoare.ro/datasheets/37/39763_DS.pdf
The 3K9 resistors are parallelled in pairs across each rail as bleeders for the big caps.
There are Y rated 4700pF caps across each rail directly at the transformer secondaries.
(Another two 4700pF across the mains switch.)
I wonder if there is any notable interaction between those small caps and bleeders here?
Live long and prosper,
Martin.
Attachments
Hi,
that underside is illuminating.
It almost looks like the designer experimented with a hard wired version to find what works (and what doesn't) and then duplicated PCB traces to mimic the effect of the wires and particulary the junctions.
This appears to extract the performance benefits of hardwiring with the ecomomy of PCB assembly. Nice engineering.
that underside is illuminating.
It almost looks like the designer experimented with a hard wired version to find what works (and what doesn't) and then duplicated PCB traces to mimic the effect of the wires and particulary the junctions.
This appears to extract the performance benefits of hardwiring with the ecomomy of PCB assembly. Nice engineering.
Hi,
this may give some useful ideas to PSX cloners.
My PSXr has a 33.5-0-33.5Vac transformer that looks like about 400VA, the input to the regulators is +-52Vdc and when connected to a Smartpower the output is +-34.4Vdc.
The smoothing is just +-7mF Slitfoil presumably due to the regulators defining the output impedance. Fused @ F5A.
Funny thing though, the Smartpower without PSXr has +-48Vdc on it's fuses and when the PSXr is connected this falls (over a period of about five seconds) to +-34Vdc, fused @ F4A. Transformer looks about 180VA and reads 30-25-0-25-30 & 7-0 with +-6.8mF Elna that appears to remain in circuit when PSXr powered, presumably to act as local decoupling and keep the HF impedance a little lower.
this may give some useful ideas to PSX cloners.
My PSXr has a 33.5-0-33.5Vac transformer that looks like about 400VA, the input to the regulators is +-52Vdc and when connected to a Smartpower the output is +-34.4Vdc.
The smoothing is just +-7mF Slitfoil presumably due to the regulators defining the output impedance. Fused @ F5A.
Funny thing though, the Smartpower without PSXr has +-48Vdc on it's fuses and when the PSXr is connected this falls (over a period of about five seconds) to +-34Vdc, fused @ F4A. Transformer looks about 180VA and reads 30-25-0-25-30 & 7-0 with +-6.8mF Elna that appears to remain in circuit when PSXr powered, presumably to act as local decoupling and keep the HF impedance a little lower.
Right then, bear with me....
Back in 1992 a friend of mine bought a Rotel CD player, Cyrus 2 and Tannoy 611. It sounded AMAZING. The bass was perfectly in proportion to the rest of the sound. In fact, we often had problems containing it! It was shockingly good and I was hooked.
(He late 'upgraded' to Cyrus CDP with Cyrus 3 amp and Mission 753 and I hated it!!!)
Anyway, Here I am years later trying to recreate that sound. I have the Cyrus2 (this time with extra PSX) and the Tannoy 611. The bass is missing!! It's there if called upon for reggae or electronic music but it is mostly hiding somewhere. It goes VERY deep but not much of it.
Honestly, I'm not one of those bass maniacs who put a glass smashing bandpass in their car. I just want a balanced sound.
I have tried with and without the PSX and the problem is the same. What's Gan On (Kieran) has a very similar system with the same problem. At one point our systems were virtually identical. It's not just me. The Tannoy's have, effectively four 8" plastic cones driven below 250Hz " (2 per cabinet) in a decently sized sealed enclosure. They are about 93dB I think. 6 Ohms.
I have tried room placement, different cabinet stuffing, different houses, concrete slabs underneath, crossover recap and mods, removing plinths, mass loading, different sources, interconnects, ..... You get the idea.
I have breadboarded an opamp equalization circuit which works great but loses some detail. The bass is back!!.
Why do I need this? It doesn't make sense. The only thing that has changed since 1992 is that my amp is older. I have recapped everything but the large smoothing caps. Cyrus tell me that the 15 year old PSX caps are stable and don't need replacing. They don't stock the parts either. (Coincidence?)
It's gotta be the smoothing caps, right?
How do I find replacements? They seem to be 5 pin caps with only 2 connected pins. (see previous pictures of PCB.)
I was hoping to get some Mundorf M-Lytics since they are within my budget http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/m_cap.html
"Supplied with snap in solder pins, requiring a 2mm diameter hole, pitch 10mm"
Could I drill the PCB to make these fit? Is this a reasonable proposition?
The originals are slit foils so I want to replace them with quality components. I can't afford to get this wrong so would appreciate ANY advice.
Should I instead try many smaller values instead of four large ones?
I am lost.
Thanks for reading this far.
Back in 1992 a friend of mine bought a Rotel CD player, Cyrus 2 and Tannoy 611. It sounded AMAZING. The bass was perfectly in proportion to the rest of the sound. In fact, we often had problems containing it! It was shockingly good and I was hooked.
(He late 'upgraded' to Cyrus CDP with Cyrus 3 amp and Mission 753 and I hated it!!!)
Anyway, Here I am years later trying to recreate that sound. I have the Cyrus2 (this time with extra PSX) and the Tannoy 611. The bass is missing!! It's there if called upon for reggae or electronic music but it is mostly hiding somewhere. It goes VERY deep but not much of it.
Honestly, I'm not one of those bass maniacs who put a glass smashing bandpass in their car. I just want a balanced sound.
I have tried with and without the PSX and the problem is the same. What's Gan On (Kieran) has a very similar system with the same problem. At one point our systems were virtually identical. It's not just me. The Tannoy's have, effectively four 8" plastic cones driven below 250Hz " (2 per cabinet) in a decently sized sealed enclosure. They are about 93dB I think. 6 Ohms.
I have tried room placement, different cabinet stuffing, different houses, concrete slabs underneath, crossover recap and mods, removing plinths, mass loading, different sources, interconnects, ..... You get the idea.
I have breadboarded an opamp equalization circuit which works great but loses some detail. The bass is back!!.
Why do I need this? It doesn't make sense. The only thing that has changed since 1992 is that my amp is older. I have recapped everything but the large smoothing caps. Cyrus tell me that the 15 year old PSX caps are stable and don't need replacing. They don't stock the parts either. (Coincidence?)
It's gotta be the smoothing caps, right?
How do I find replacements? They seem to be 5 pin caps with only 2 connected pins. (see previous pictures of PCB.)
I was hoping to get some Mundorf M-Lytics since they are within my budget http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/m_cap.html
"Supplied with snap in solder pins, requiring a 2mm diameter hole, pitch 10mm"
Could I drill the PCB to make these fit? Is this a reasonable proposition?
The originals are slit foils so I want to replace them with quality components. I can't afford to get this wrong so would appreciate ANY advice.
Should I instead try many smaller values instead of four large ones?
I am lost.
Thanks for reading this far.
Attachments
"Made in England" and the gold lettering.
Makes me think BHC but their modern Slit foil equivalent would be very expensive (£25+ VAT each) and are only available in 10,000uF. (BHC in collaboration with DNM.)
http://www.bhc.co.uk/slit_foil.htm
What would you do?
Cheers,
Martin.
Makes me think BHC but their modern Slit foil equivalent would be very expensive (£25+ VAT each) and are only available in 10,000uF. (BHC in collaboration with DNM.)
http://www.bhc.co.uk/slit_foil.htm
What would you do?
Cheers,
Martin.
Attachments
Hi,
it looks like the connected pins are at 22mm pitch, but having had RS caps with 5pins, the 2pins are not symetrical about the centre line. The extra pins are for mechanical strength and polarity.
You will have to replace with identical pin pitch,
or
modify the accessible side of the PCB to connect the two pins to their respective pads and keep the caps in their correct location.
Do not be afraid of using the 10mF caps. I think 2pair of these would be ideal for each channel of the Cyrus. 8 slit foil is a big budget for one stereo amp. i.e. +-20mF/ch
Another alternative might be using cheap but good quality 50V smoothing caps and add a large valued plastic film cap with series R to achieve the snubber that seems to give back the midrange quality. Some experimentation with a pair of 10uF polypropylene and various R till the mid and treble seems to be "just right". Is this achieveable?
it looks like the connected pins are at 22mm pitch, but having had RS caps with 5pins, the 2pins are not symetrical about the centre line. The extra pins are for mechanical strength and polarity.
You will have to replace with identical pin pitch,
or
modify the accessible side of the PCB to connect the two pins to their respective pads and keep the caps in their correct location.
Do not be afraid of using the 10mF caps. I think 2pair of these would be ideal for each channel of the Cyrus. 8 slit foil is a big budget for one stereo amp. i.e. +-20mF/ch
Another alternative might be using cheap but good quality 50V smoothing caps and add a large valued plastic film cap with series R to achieve the snubber that seems to give back the midrange quality. Some experimentation with a pair of 10uF polypropylene and various R till the mid and treble seems to be "just right". Is this achieveable?
Hi,
I don't think this is going to be so simple. I've been researching this for a few days now and am yet find anything that will fit the pin configuration within height constraints.
I'll keep looking but I've just ordered some cheap 12000uF Nichicons. I'm going to fit them to the Cyrus Two (without PSX) and see what differences I hear before and after the cap replacement.
If I regain the missing bass in this experiment then I will be more confident about the likely >65 GBP spend on the PSX caps.
BHC make 5 pin caps but they are very expensive and from what I have seen are also too tall unless I downgrade the PSX fro 4 X 15000uF to 4 X 10000uF. Even the 5 Pin (ALPS22 Series) have a sightly different pin configuration.
Cheers,
Martin.
Got these four Nichicon 12000uF 63V from Ebay for less than a tenner delivered!! Gratuitous photo follows.... if only they were 5 pin.
I don't think this is going to be so simple. I've been researching this for a few days now and am yet find anything that will fit the pin configuration within height constraints.
I'll keep looking but I've just ordered some cheap 12000uF Nichicons. I'm going to fit them to the Cyrus Two (without PSX) and see what differences I hear before and after the cap replacement.
If I regain the missing bass in this experiment then I will be more confident about the likely >65 GBP spend on the PSX caps.
BHC make 5 pin caps but they are very expensive and from what I have seen are also too tall unless I downgrade the PSX fro 4 X 15000uF to 4 X 10000uF. Even the 5 Pin (ALPS22 Series) have a sightly different pin configuration.
Cheers,
Martin.
Got these four Nichicon 12000uF 63V from Ebay for less than a tenner delivered!! Gratuitous photo follows.... if only they were 5 pin.
Attachments
Sonusthree said:I don't think this is going to be so simple. I've been researching this for a few days now and am yet find anything that will fit the pin configuration within height constraints.
I'll keep looking but I've just ordered some cheap 12000uF Nichicons. I'm going to fit them to the Cyrus Two (without PSX) and see what differences I hear before and after the cap replacement.
If I regain the missing bass in this experiment then I will be more confident about the likely >65 GBP spend on the PSX caps.
BHC make 5 pin caps but they are very expensive and from what I have seen are also too tall unless I downgrade the PSX fro 4 X 15000uF to 4 X 10000uF. Even the 5 Pin (ALPS22 Series) have a sightly different pin configuration.
Got these four Nichicon 12000uF 63V from Ebay for less than a tenner delivered!! Gratuitous photo follows.... if only they were 5 pin.
I would forget about the BHC and go for other types, preferably 105 degrees types. The Nichicon should be, the Panasonic TSHA too.
Don't pain attention to the 5-pins, and use the usual two. The BHC have smaller caps in parallel, if I am not wrong, and each pin might be for one cap. But I wouldn't expect too much of a difference by going with other brands of reasonable quality.
AndrewT said:Hi Sonus,
you'll give us Brits a bad reputation.
Even I can remember how many fingers (and thumb) I have on one hand.
You presume that they are ALL Nichicons?
The one at the very back of the photo is a ........... Yeah....well....it was very late when I posted.
carlmart said:
Thanks Carl, BHC are the only remotely compatible caps I have found so far. I have seen a few 5 pin Phillips caps on Ebay (40 Volt only) but nowhere else.
The PSX caps have only two working pins. The others are not connected and are only for stability. I have read that some of the spare pins may be at negative potential though.
Using two pin caps is difficult in this case because the working pins are very close to the perimeter of the cap. If I manage to 'adapt' the board for two pins then it becomes difficult because the caps will 'overlap' at the centre of the board.
I will test that theory when the six Nichicons arrive.
I will also remove a PSX cap and push it's pins through some paper and then compare the measurements with some 3 pin and 5 pin datasheets.
Cheers,
Martin.
Hi,
Just thought I should mention here that I have now replaced the Cyrus 2 Elna smoothing caps (10,000uF) with the Nichicons (12,000uF).
In my opinion the Cyrus 2 alone beats the Cyrus 2 with PSX.
I can only conclude from this that the caps in my PSX need to be replaced.
I have posted the details on the Cyrus 2 thread.
Cheers,
Martin.
Just thought I should mention here that I have now replaced the Cyrus 2 Elna smoothing caps (10,000uF) with the Nichicons (12,000uF).
In my opinion the Cyrus 2 alone beats the Cyrus 2 with PSX.
I can only conclude from this that the caps in my PSX need to be replaced.
I have posted the details on the Cyrus 2 thread.
Cheers,
Martin.