planet10 said:
Jus' playin' Dave
I did an Augsperger restricted terminus design and Dave and Chris modified it for a FR125 bipole.
http://www.timn8er.com/alegria_audio_rosa_tl.htm
I don't think it would do well at all. In fact, I didn't have much success modeling a single driver TL for the 125 so I haven't pursued it.
We did hear one when the WR125 first came out but the design was not shared. I thought the bass rolled off too soon but others enjoyed it. It did have a very nice mid-range.
We did hear one when the WR125 first came out but the design was not shared. I thought the bass rolled off too soon but others enjoyed it. It did have a very nice mid-range.
Greets!
A basic end loaded (Alpha) TL, nice midbass, ~75 Hz aneochoic F3, ergo requires a corner for ~decent bass:
L = 32.03"
CSA = 47.047"^2
stuffing density = ~1.75 lb/ft^3
45 Hz ML-TL, smoothest sim (~+/- 1 dB), but requires either a stand or a mass loading cavity to get the driver to ear height:
L = 39.56"
CSA = 43.68"^2
driver down 14"
vent = 3" dia. x 3" near/at the bottom
stuffing density = ~0.3 lbs/ft^3 from top down ~30"
45 Hz ML-TL, driver at ~ear height (~+/- 2 dB):
L = 39.56"
CSA = 43.68"^2
driver down ~3.3"
vent = 3" dia. x 3" near/at the bottom
stuffing density = ~0.3 lbs/ft^3 from top down ~30"
All dims inside and use stuffing in the bottom portion of the ML-TLs to 'tighen up' the bass to get a better blend in-room if desired.
Anybody builds any of these, please report back.
GM
A basic end loaded (Alpha) TL, nice midbass, ~75 Hz aneochoic F3, ergo requires a corner for ~decent bass:
L = 32.03"
CSA = 47.047"^2
stuffing density = ~1.75 lb/ft^3
45 Hz ML-TL, smoothest sim (~+/- 1 dB), but requires either a stand or a mass loading cavity to get the driver to ear height:
L = 39.56"
CSA = 43.68"^2
driver down 14"
vent = 3" dia. x 3" near/at the bottom
stuffing density = ~0.3 lbs/ft^3 from top down ~30"
45 Hz ML-TL, driver at ~ear height (~+/- 2 dB):
L = 39.56"
CSA = 43.68"^2
driver down ~3.3"
vent = 3" dia. x 3" near/at the bottom
stuffing density = ~0.3 lbs/ft^3 from top down ~30"
All dims inside and use stuffing in the bottom portion of the ML-TLs to 'tighen up' the bass to get a better blend in-room if desired.
Anybody builds any of these, please report back.
GM
Thanx GM for the sims... we'll add them to the list to try out -- i'll get drawings together at least, i want to provide a whole bunch of options for people.
Before i publish the offical miniOnken, i want to let the driver break-in and see if it needs any tweaking, For instance the impedance curve shows a tiny little wiggle at just under 500 Hz... could be a cabinet resonance or something to do with the ports, the perfectionist would like to kill that -- althou i must say that i was caught off guard when a measurement run today detected a DVD & a CD sitting on top.
It has started out at 13 litres net (driver consumes 0.28 litres), tuned to 52 Hz. Impedance curves i have rau show the same tuning (2 days apart and they haven't moved), so we have an F3 in the neighborhood os the tuning. The curves (as i interperet them -- i'm no BR expert mind you -- support my intention of getting it to be semi-aperiodic so F3 might be a bit higher but with a better F10 and lower group delay. Whatever i did it sounds good, and you usually don't hear me saying that about a BR. I sorta designed this one as a lark because i really liked the looks of the Solo 103, and it came an bit me in the bum.
Perhaps someone with more experience reading BR charts can comment on the tuning.
dave
Before i publish the offical miniOnken, i want to let the driver break-in and see if it needs any tweaking, For instance the impedance curve shows a tiny little wiggle at just under 500 Hz... could be a cabinet resonance or something to do with the ports, the perfectionist would like to kill that -- althou i must say that i was caught off guard when a measurement run today detected a DVD & a CD sitting on top.
It has started out at 13 litres net (driver consumes 0.28 litres), tuned to 52 Hz. Impedance curves i have rau show the same tuning (2 days apart and they haven't moved), so we have an F3 in the neighborhood os the tuning. The curves (as i interperet them -- i'm no BR expert mind you -- support my intention of getting it to be semi-aperiodic so F3 might be a bit higher but with a better F10 and lower group delay. Whatever i did it sounds good, and you usually don't hear me saying that about a BR. I sorta designed this one as a lark because i really liked the looks of the Solo 103, and it came an bit me in the bum.
Perhaps someone with more experience reading BR charts can comment on the tuning.
dave
Attachments
Greets!
You're welcome! I had done a bunch of sims the other week for someone then found out they wanted something a little different, so figured I'd see if anybody else was interested.
BTW, the Alpha TL should in theory be quite SET friendly down low, though of course with 'flea' power won't have much dynamic range.
WRT to the mini-Onken's impedance plot, the lower 'bump' should be almost non-existant and the upper one should be somewhat more 'blunted' for it to be ~aperiodic. This will require critically damping the vents, yielding an FR response similar to the Alpha TL except with a bit more midbass. That, or redesigning the cab with a much lower 'n' factor to raise F3, like maybe 2.5-3.0, but then the cab becomes tiny and the vent length goes up dramatically, so might as well just do a simple reverse tapered pipe stuffed to suit and be done with it.
Onkens look neat/cool/sexy/whatever, but in the scheme of things there's easier ways to get similar, or better, performance with less work.
GM
You're welcome! I had done a bunch of sims the other week for someone then found out they wanted something a little different, so figured I'd see if anybody else was interested.
BTW, the Alpha TL should in theory be quite SET friendly down low, though of course with 'flea' power won't have much dynamic range.
WRT to the mini-Onken's impedance plot, the lower 'bump' should be almost non-existant and the upper one should be somewhat more 'blunted' for it to be ~aperiodic. This will require critically damping the vents, yielding an FR response similar to the Alpha TL except with a bit more midbass. That, or redesigning the cab with a much lower 'n' factor to raise F3, like maybe 2.5-3.0, but then the cab becomes tiny and the vent length goes up dramatically, so might as well just do a simple reverse tapered pipe stuffed to suit and be done with it.
Onkens look neat/cool/sexy/whatever, but in the scheme of things there's easier ways to get similar, or better, performance with less work.
GM
GM projections
Hello GM:
Glad to see you throw your two cents worth into the discussions. I am always keen to read your offerings and I am sure your designs will be worth trying out.
I am keen on a bipole design for this driver as it is not too efficient and I have been very impressed with bipole designs with fostex drivers. Is it possible to adapt your designs to bipoles and what are the critical things that you watch for in bipole designs.
Thanks for being involved in this discussion
Hello GM:
Glad to see you throw your two cents worth into the discussions. I am always keen to read your offerings and I am sure your designs will be worth trying out.
I am keen on a bipole design for this driver as it is not too efficient and I have been very impressed with bipole designs with fostex drivers. Is it possible to adapt your designs to bipoles and what are the critical things that you watch for in bipole designs.
Thanks for being involved in this discussion
planet10 said:
Greets!
Out of curiosity I plugged the specs into the little folded pipe I did for the tweaked 40-1197s you sent me last fall and it was like it was 'clean sheet' designed for it, just increase the vent to 5" long for a T/S max flat alignment (Not SET compatible and BSC required if not against a wall).
Speaking of which, I couldn't find the drawing you made for it on your TL site. I figured it would be on the 'donations' page since it was meant to be a 'reward' for giving a donation.
GM
Re: GM projections
Greets!
You're welcome! Dave, Tim, and others have done fairly extensive building/testing/posting results of bipolar designs so I doubt they've left many 'stones unturned'. Obviously, the easy way is to build two identical speakers and tie their backs together, so anyone's design can be 'bipolarized'.
Most folks normally just double the single speaker's cross sectional area (CSA) and either stick dual vents together or go to the trouble of figuring a larger, longer single vent. This layout allows a brace to be put between the drivers to mass load them, a tweak I highly recommend, whether single or multiple drivers are used.
In a high aspect ratio pipe design where the drivers are sharing the same space, then in theory the driver's ideal position along the line shifts somewhat lower WRT a single driver design, but I've never done any A/B comparisons, so don't know if there's an audible difference.
One potential problem of using dual drivers in a shared space that I don't see mentioned much on the net is that when the specs are off enough (and they can still be within the '10% rule'), then as they approach the cab's tuning frequency (Fb), one driver will dominate and the other will 'flap in the breeze' since it's 'feeling' a very underdamped alignment, so for those folks that don't measure their drivers or if the manufacturer has a known history of questionable QA, then best to use 'separate' cabs, which has the side benefit of needing less/no bracing depending on their aspect ratio.
GM
SCD said:
Greets!
You're welcome! Dave, Tim, and others have done fairly extensive building/testing/posting results of bipolar designs so I doubt they've left many 'stones unturned'. Obviously, the easy way is to build two identical speakers and tie their backs together, so anyone's design can be 'bipolarized'.
Most folks normally just double the single speaker's cross sectional area (CSA) and either stick dual vents together or go to the trouble of figuring a larger, longer single vent. This layout allows a brace to be put between the drivers to mass load them, a tweak I highly recommend, whether single or multiple drivers are used.In a high aspect ratio pipe design where the drivers are sharing the same space, then in theory the driver's ideal position along the line shifts somewhat lower WRT a single driver design, but I've never done any A/B comparisons, so don't know if there's an audible difference.
One potential problem of using dual drivers in a shared space that I don't see mentioned much on the net is that when the specs are off enough (and they can still be within the '10% rule'), then as they approach the cab's tuning frequency (Fb), one driver will dominate and the other will 'flap in the breeze' since it's 'feeling' a very underdamped alignment, so for those folks that don't measure their drivers or if the manufacturer has a known history of questionable QA, then best to use 'separate' cabs, which has the side benefit of needing less/no bracing depending on their aspect ratio.
GM
Greets!
Hmm, I took DD's yesterday posting on some mailing lists to mean that CSS now had them in 'in hand'. If not, it's no reason to hold off ordering, especially now that the 'cat's out of the bag', so to speak:
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:34:15 -0700
To: sound@lists.io.com
From: "David Dlugos" <planet10@mac.com>
Subject: [JN] PR: Creative Sound FR125S now available
Joes....
Just thot people might be interested to know the new
CSS FR125S 4"
full-range is now available. Originally designed to
target the
Tangband W371S, it ended up hitting the Jordan JX92S.
For more info <http://www.planet10-hifi.com/css.html>
Note: i'd like to figure out why the 3 SE amps we've
tried choked up
on these, so if anyone has suggestions. ....
dave
disclaimer: i am a dealer & the creator of support
materials for Bob.
Hmm, I took DD's yesterday posting on some mailing lists to mean that CSS now had them in 'in hand'. If not, it's no reason to hold off ordering, especially now that the 'cat's out of the bag', so to speak:
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:34:15 -0700
To: sound@lists.io.com
From: "David Dlugos" <planet10@mac.com>
Subject: [JN] PR: Creative Sound FR125S now available
Joes....
Just thot people might be interested to know the new
CSS FR125S 4"
full-range is now available. Originally designed to
target the
Tangband W371S, it ended up hitting the Jordan JX92S.
For more info <http://www.planet10-hifi.com/css.html>
Note: i'd like to figure out why the 3 SE amps we've
tried choked up
on these, so if anyone has suggestions. ....
dave
disclaimer: i am a dealer & the creator of support
materials for Bob.
I just ordered as well. I'm not in a hurry to get them. Just want to see what they are like.
What I don't understand though is if they have to pay for their truck and running costs why don't they just up their prices. (Or is that what the dispute is about) They have my sympathy anyway. Seems to me that if your operating costs go up you pass that on to your clients
What I don't understand though is if they have to pay for their truck and running costs why don't they just up their prices. (Or is that what the dispute is about) They have my sympathy anyway. Seems to me that if your operating costs go up you pass that on to your clients
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