anatech...
Without air filter and sufficient air overture (that complie with certification, CSA, ETL and UL), dust is not a probleme...Amplifier with large heat sink fins dont get stuck with dust. Heat removal effiency is less, but is always depend of effiency of amplifier. And long term reliability. Anyways, it's good to clean amplifier each 1-2 years, even for mine or for Crown. Agree with me that heating a rack is not really a good idea!
Rack101 parts 2!
Fredos
Without air filter and sufficient air overture (that complie with certification, CSA, ETL and UL), dust is not a probleme...Amplifier with large heat sink fins dont get stuck with dust. Heat removal effiency is less, but is always depend of effiency of amplifier. And long term reliability. Anyways, it's good to clean amplifier each 1-2 years, even for mine or for Crown. Agree with me that heating a rack is not really a good idea!
Rack101 parts 2!
Fredos
Hi Fredos,
Many bar installations these days are done by non-professionals. By virtue of what they are doing, only specialists should be allowed to install amp racks. But bar owners are normally too cheap to hire someone who really knows what they are doing. You can not blame the equipment for that.
You are being very unfair to the product in this case.
In service shops, a bar amp is met with rolling eyes and other statements I can't repeat. We also generally limit our warranty or we'd go broke. We know that most systems are set up by "DJ's" who really know nothing about proper installations.
One of my sites is sitting at 2,500 watts and is about to get another 1,000 watts. It's a paging system set up for 70 V line distribution. I've many other largish sites that run with only the occasional failure. The other guys posting also run large systems and shows. I really have to agree with them.
-Chris
Many bar installations these days are done by non-professionals. By virtue of what they are doing, only specialists should be allowed to install amp racks. But bar owners are normally too cheap to hire someone who really knows what they are doing. You can not blame the equipment for that.
You are being very unfair to the product in this case.
In service shops, a bar amp is met with rolling eyes and other statements I can't repeat. We also generally limit our warranty or we'd go broke. We know that most systems are set up by "DJ's" who really know nothing about proper installations.
One of my sites is sitting at 2,500 watts and is about to get another 1,000 watts. It's a paging system set up for 70 V line distribution. I've many other largish sites that run with only the occasional failure. The other guys posting also run large systems and shows. I really have to agree with them.
-Chris
Sorry to hit your admiration for Crown...Just to tell you that pro audio product are for pro audio installer, but product should be as pro too to support abuse under abnormal condition. A lot of ''pro'' have burn amplifier of my first serie 8 years ago and I can told you that I have learn a lot on how to protect and manage the heat in an amplifier. Crown engineer, that was in business for over 50 years should know that. Abuse is a part of the real life and products SHOULD support it.
Fredos
Fredos
By the way...you talk about bar? I will try to take some picture of bar installation with my amplifier...At least I know 2 place that they use my amplifiers in CLOSED rack with no ventilation...And amplifers was working their with only 1 faillure in 7 years and no faillure in the other place for 2 years....That's abuse or not? And yes, they run it at clipping all night long! And yes you can cook eggs on it at the end of the night!
Fredos
Fredos
Hi Fredos,
I'm not a Crown lover, but I do recognize that they make good amplifiers. That's all.
From a reliability stand point, avoid excess heat at all costs!! To do otherwise is foolish. All pro amplifiers can withstand normal overloads, but nothing is idiot proof. Running amplifiers into clipping is just plain stupid. The DJ is an idiot if he does this. That's a prime example why service guys don't like bar amps, and why the operators are viewed as non-professional (at best).
Sorry, but the truth is that you should never operate equipment in a range beyond where the operation is specified. Then cry when damage occurs? This is beyond me entirely.
-Chris
I'm not a Crown lover, but I do recognize that they make good amplifiers. That's all.
From a reliability stand point, avoid excess heat at all costs!! To do otherwise is foolish. All pro amplifiers can withstand normal overloads, but nothing is idiot proof. Running amplifiers into clipping is just plain stupid. The DJ is an idiot if he does this. That's a prime example why service guys don't like bar amps, and why the operators are viewed as non-professional (at best).
Sorry, but the truth is that you should never operate equipment in a range beyond where the operation is specified. Then cry when damage occurs? This is beyond me entirely.
-Chris
Now I wonder how much years are Fred's amplifiers going to last and whether he is going to tell us if any of them fails or not... On the other hand I don't remember reading a single word from Fred about the failure modes of his amplifiers, but Murphy's law tells us that they must be failing from time to time, so he's certainly hiding that information (in a forum where amplifier repairs are routinely discussed and experience is shared).
Note that switching circuits age badly when component ratings are not carefully considered. Even the iron powder cores of the output inductors are subject to intrinsic aging and they may have lost all their inductance after only one or two years of use if they are operated too hot. Same applies for electrolytic capacitors depending on ripple currents.
Note that switching circuits age badly when component ratings are not carefully considered. Even the iron powder cores of the output inductors are subject to intrinsic aging and they may have lost all their inductance after only one or two years of use if they are operated too hot. Same applies for electrolytic capacitors depending on ripple currents.
Here some statistics...
First generation, model 1600....50% return for repair, most of the time output transistor and drivers, due to overheat. Probleme fixed with better heat sink and more tight temp sensor. The rest was due to condensation when guy keep amplifier in the truck at -30 celcius and bring it inside for a show and turn it on with full condensation inside. Probleme solve with conformal military coating on the pcb. Fews fail due to turn on with no load and instability. Prob fixed with better zobel network.
For model 2000, fews 4 units back with diode blow in the switching rectifier. Replaced with bigger diode.
Most of them have more than 7 years and still run well.
First generation of HVI, 4 blows on bench test with continuous RMS full power. Not design for that, so timer have been add to limit continuous power to 15 minutes. Timer restart each time that signal cross 0V on the output for at least 500ms. Heat sink have been modified to handle more heat and dissipate it more fast. 1 fail with 240V applied when setted for 120V and another one with beer bath...
Most of them run for over 3 years now.
Last Generation of HVI, no fail from yet and most of them run for a years now.
News DLS series, 1 blow after rain have fall over amplifier for maybe 15 minutes, all other in the rack have survive, but have been cleaned after that outdoor show. 1 have blow at turn on, bad solder...Maybe? Still running.
I have over 400 amplifiers running over the world from now...That's the story of return units. From now, no fail due to capacitor or inductor aged, even in the first generation, that have more than 7-8 years. I agree that first series was not reliable, but probleme was fixed...I think that's normal with first generation of products, specialy with a small business like me. I have begin in room of my appartement when I was student, then move to a basement commercial room and now I just built a brand new shop for operation. I have begin too with maybe 10 000$ investment from my pocket and now I can live with this company. I cannot afford Porsch or Hummer, but maybe in fews years if company continue in that way! So everyone that dream to built business in pro audio market or simply in audio, continue! That's hard, but that's possible! Just be prepared to hear lot of thing again you, but when you will got oportunity to do big realization, do it and do it well to make you a name!
So now Eva, you have the all the thing on your hand to see that class d was not as reliable than linear design, but begin to be enought strong to compete best name amplifier!
Fredos
First generation, model 1600....50% return for repair, most of the time output transistor and drivers, due to overheat. Probleme fixed with better heat sink and more tight temp sensor. The rest was due to condensation when guy keep amplifier in the truck at -30 celcius and bring it inside for a show and turn it on with full condensation inside. Probleme solve with conformal military coating on the pcb. Fews fail due to turn on with no load and instability. Prob fixed with better zobel network.
For model 2000, fews 4 units back with diode blow in the switching rectifier. Replaced with bigger diode.
Most of them have more than 7 years and still run well.
First generation of HVI, 4 blows on bench test with continuous RMS full power. Not design for that, so timer have been add to limit continuous power to 15 minutes. Timer restart each time that signal cross 0V on the output for at least 500ms. Heat sink have been modified to handle more heat and dissipate it more fast. 1 fail with 240V applied when setted for 120V and another one with beer bath...
Most of them run for over 3 years now.
Last Generation of HVI, no fail from yet and most of them run for a years now.
News DLS series, 1 blow after rain have fall over amplifier for maybe 15 minutes, all other in the rack have survive, but have been cleaned after that outdoor show. 1 have blow at turn on, bad solder...Maybe? Still running.
I have over 400 amplifiers running over the world from now...That's the story of return units. From now, no fail due to capacitor or inductor aged, even in the first generation, that have more than 7-8 years. I agree that first series was not reliable, but probleme was fixed...I think that's normal with first generation of products, specialy with a small business like me. I have begin in room of my appartement when I was student, then move to a basement commercial room and now I just built a brand new shop for operation. I have begin too with maybe 10 000$ investment from my pocket and now I can live with this company. I cannot afford Porsch or Hummer, but maybe in fews years if company continue in that way! So everyone that dream to built business in pro audio market or simply in audio, continue! That's hard, but that's possible! Just be prepared to hear lot of thing again you, but when you will got oportunity to do big realization, do it and do it well to make you a name!
So now Eva, you have the all the thing on your hand to see that class d was not as reliable than linear design, but begin to be enought strong to compete best name amplifier!
Fredos
fredos said:
And on your website you state:
"...The first 1600 model provided 800 watts per channel into 4ohms. The 1600 model quickly became the reference in the industry...".
"...In 2006, D-Amp invested in research and development to completely re-design the first series with the intent of offering more power and reliability, at a competitive price.... ".
So, basically, after 7 years you are still trying to get that first series to run properly?
Hummer... bummer... 
Regards,
Milan
First series was discontinued 3 years ago...Replaced with the DLS series..And yes, the last batch of the first series was reliable, without any modification inside. (that's for Milan...) First batch of first series was maybe what you can call ''tester'' products...And yes, after modifications was done in failed units, this series acquire a great name! Sorry to disapoint you!
Fredos
Fredos
Hi Fredos,
I happy your product is more reliable and successful. That wasn't my point. Let's assume your amps have a half life of 10 years running hot. Imagine how much longer they would have run at much lower temperatures! That is a statistical fact. Doesn't matter whether your are running a linear or class "D" amplifier. Component life is shortened exponentially with temperature rise.
The only things brought up were the fact that you were being unfair to Crown, and that they were improperly installed and operated. Improper ventilation is probably the cause of death for those amplifiers, unless they also violated loading guidelines.
-Chris
I happy your product is more reliable and successful. That wasn't my point. Let's assume your amps have a half life of 10 years running hot. Imagine how much longer they would have run at much lower temperatures! That is a statistical fact. Doesn't matter whether your are running a linear or class "D" amplifier. Component life is shortened exponentially with temperature rise.
The only things brought up were the fact that you were being unfair to Crown, and that they were improperly installed and operated. Improper ventilation is probably the cause of death for those amplifiers, unless they also violated loading guidelines.
-Chris
Fredos,
The webmaster says he still hasn't gotten a letter from you about the AVB thread:
Just go here and write him please. This has to be resolved very soon.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=610
Variac
The webmaster says he still hasn't gotten a letter from you about the AVB thread:
Just go here and write him please. This has to be resolved very soon.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=610
Variac
Fredos, I don't understand. Please write me. Although this thread is more open, we will have to delete a lot of previous posts as well as change the name if you don't also get the AVB thread for those original posts, which are I'm sure of interest to people, just not appropriate for here...
Btw, Duck Twacy- don't worry about your K2. It's a fine amplifier as long as it's used within it's limits like any amp. There is a cult here in NY that uses them for critical applications. They run quite hot at idle but they are designed for that being a convection cooled amplifier. Just don't stack them 10 high in a closed rack!
Fredos
fredos said:BWRX said:
Respect for your creation, man!
Today I listened an ClassD amplifier, only for bass.
Great sound, more power, less temperature dissipation,all OK!
But,NEVER,EVER, will sound like an AB or AB+B class.
Have U tried the XTI4000 from crown?
That's AB+B class!
Great sound!
Great Power!
Very low dissipation!
Also, can U amaze us with some schematics?
I'm offer to realize it, and compare your D-amp with a AB+B class from crown, I have home 1 piece of XTI4000 also the schematics,too,and I want to make a DIY amplifier from Crown and from D-amp,and compare it step to step.
I dont challenge with U, i'm from F*****G Romania, for me DIY,is a passion, today I succed to obtaine 2500watts REAL POWER supply, from an R63 toroidal core and 4x irfp 460 mos fets on full bridge topology.
I wait for some schemathics at:
claudiu971@yahoo.com
Let the comparation begin!
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