Found my issue. The example I was basing my development on did not define each opamp with a unique name. Tried that and all worked out fine. Turns out I don't think I can do what I wanted to do, though.
This then lead to the realization that I'm not in good understanding of how to set up the filters. The example I was working from first sets up a keyword Filter that in my case is 8th order. Then I added in 4 more Filters each is a 2nd order, derived from the 8th order entry, as instructed to do. So now I have 5 Filters, 1 8th order and 4 2nd order. Have I just created a 16th order filter? Then I determine the values for the parts that make up the actual filter sections and add them to the script. So this adds in additional nodes for those parts.
The manual says that filters don't have nodes, so whats with all those parts and those nodes? I saw no discussion on that.
This then lead to the realization that I'm not in good understanding of how to set up the filters. The example I was working from first sets up a keyword Filter that in my case is 8th order. Then I added in 4 more Filters each is a 2nd order, derived from the 8th order entry, as instructed to do. So now I have 5 Filters, 1 8th order and 4 2nd order. Have I just created a 16th order filter? Then I determine the values for the parts that make up the actual filter sections and add them to the script. So this adds in additional nodes for those parts.
The manual says that filters don't have nodes, so whats with all those parts and those nodes? I saw no discussion on that.
Still trying to understand AkAbak filtering
Still trying to figure out how AkAbak works with filtering. I understand that the filter keyword defines the amplitude impressed on the current network. So why do I need to also include the actual LRC values that form that filter? I mean in terms of what the components and nodes are doing, that the filter isn't doing, and vice versa. I have yet to find an explanation with the manual. I know that both are needed, just not sure as to the why.
Still trying to figure out how AkAbak works with filtering. I understand that the filter keyword defines the amplitude impressed on the current network. So why do I need to also include the actual LRC values that form that filter? I mean in terms of what the components and nodes are doing, that the filter isn't doing, and vice versa. I have yet to find an explanation with the manual. I know that both are needed, just not sure as to the why.
Great long thread! I've been following it for a while and finally got the urge...
I've been adding drivers until hit 4 way and using GRF cabs with Eminence Kappa Pro LFII's in doing bass duty.
So tapped horns seemed like the only road and are narrower than GRF's and certain are reported to make better low bass;-)
Some sims and ideas.
Then the Cross between Kappa 15A Mid bass horn and Kappa Pro LFII tapped horn looks like this.
When trying the first experiments with a Tannoy HPD bass cone and JBL2435 horn I found how much better the simple 2nd order 12dB crossover sounded and decided to stick with it throughout this project. Adding the JBL 2482's going 4 way worked well and I just kept on with the tapped horns and 5 way.
The driver specs are
Tweeter - cheap little Eminence thing - might replace for nicer work situation pending...
JBL2435be's upper mid (1250Hz to 10000Hz) - you don't find much about them spec wise as they were always in arrays... Crisp, quite cutting dynamic upper mid.
JBL2482's mid / lower mid horn (330Hz to 1250Hz). Rich toneful mid Compression driver.
Kappa 15A - Cheap and nice sounding bass guitar pro driver (90Hz to 330Hz)
Eminence Kappa Pro LFII (Pro audio low freq driver) Robust and can do deep effortlessly.
Now to the Horn resp side.
Mr Coco kindly modelled the mid bass horn for me
Here's how it looks with a Kappa 15A on it
Horn resp schematic
Params to get that
Now for the tapped horns.
I drew from Volvotreters pages and experience and really liked his design. I played with Hornresp and came up with what would fit in my room and was a compromise crossing with the midbass at around 90Hz.
I am not so much for fiddling with models endlessly and talking about it - like to get on and make sawdust and build. Still The models point to something usable.
I have the tapped horns fully in the corners so use 0.5 x Pi.
I am using L-Pads on the JLB2435's and 2482's - 13dB on both. Tweeters are padded 3 dB and nothing on the mid bass / tapped sub horn. Balance is to my ear about right.
Measuring to be done as and when.
Listening to test tone across freq ranges all seems ok , no dips and nice room resonance down in the 30Hz area
and carries on to audible / feelable to 20 and below.
Today I have made sure all the inspection / driver installation hatches are air tight. Bead of silicone sealant on one side and Vaseline smear on the other face and bingo - perfect seal / removable and re-usable for virtually nowt.
some pics
Throat with Kappa Pro LFII
Divider
Driver loading cover
I have since angled the lower mid horns (top ones down a bit more) and spent some time, time aligning...
Once again great thread and I just felt I had to add my bit and experience.
Really nice project to make and very rewarding results.
I've been adding drivers until hit 4 way and using GRF cabs with Eminence Kappa Pro LFII's in doing bass duty.
So tapped horns seemed like the only road and are narrower than GRF's and certain are reported to make better low bass;-)
Some sims and ideas.
Then the Cross between Kappa 15A Mid bass horn and Kappa Pro LFII tapped horn looks like this.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
When trying the first experiments with a Tannoy HPD bass cone and JBL2435 horn I found how much better the simple 2nd order 12dB crossover sounded and decided to stick with it throughout this project. Adding the JBL 2482's going 4 way worked well and I just kept on with the tapped horns and 5 way.
The driver specs are
Tweeter - cheap little Eminence thing - might replace for nicer work situation pending...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
JBL2435be's upper mid (1250Hz to 10000Hz) - you don't find much about them spec wise as they were always in arrays... Crisp, quite cutting dynamic upper mid.
JBL2482's mid / lower mid horn (330Hz to 1250Hz). Rich toneful mid Compression driver.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Kappa 15A - Cheap and nice sounding bass guitar pro driver (90Hz to 330Hz)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Eminence Kappa Pro LFII (Pro audio low freq driver) Robust and can do deep effortlessly.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Now to the Horn resp side.
Mr Coco kindly modelled the mid bass horn for me
Here's how it looks with a Kappa 15A on it
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Horn resp schematic
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Params to get that
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Now for the tapped horns.
I drew from Volvotreters pages and experience and really liked his design. I played with Hornresp and came up with what would fit in my room and was a compromise crossing with the midbass at around 90Hz.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I am not so much for fiddling with models endlessly and talking about it - like to get on and make sawdust and build. Still The models point to something usable.
I have the tapped horns fully in the corners so use 0.5 x Pi.
I am using L-Pads on the JLB2435's and 2482's - 13dB on both. Tweeters are padded 3 dB and nothing on the mid bass / tapped sub horn. Balance is to my ear about right.
Measuring to be done as and when.
Listening to test tone across freq ranges all seems ok , no dips and nice room resonance down in the 30Hz area
and carries on to audible / feelable to 20 and below.Today I have made sure all the inspection / driver installation hatches are air tight. Bead of silicone sealant on one side and Vaseline smear on the other face and bingo - perfect seal / removable and re-usable for virtually nowt.
some pics
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Throat with Kappa Pro LFII
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Divider
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Driver loading cover
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I have since angled the lower mid horns (top ones down a bit more) and spent some time, time aligning...
Once again great thread and I just felt I had to add my bit and experience.
Really nice project to make and very rewarding results.
this should be fun
Def_Const
{
S1 = 1.00e-4;
S2 = 840.00e-4;
S3 = 1680.00e-4;
S4 = 3227.00e-4;
L12 = 0.10e-2;
L23 = 272.10e-2;
L34 = 48.10e-2;
Sd = 1680.00e-4;
}
Def_Driver 'Driver'
Sd=1680.00cm2
Bl=25.10Tm
Cms=6.83E-05m/N
Rms=9.17Ns/m
fs=32.9998Hz
Le=1.70mH
Re=3.30ohm
ExpoLe=1
System 'System'
Driver Def='Driver''Driver'
Node=1=0=9=10
Filter 'HP1'
fo=31Hz vo=1
{b2=1;
a2=1; a1=1.414214; a0=1; }
Filter 'LP1'
fo=89Hz vo=1
{b0=1;
a4=1; a3=2.613126; a2=3.414214; a1=2.613126; a0=1; }
Waveguide 'Horn segment 1'
Node=8=9
STh={S1}
SMo={S2}
Len={L12}
Conical
Waveguide 'Horn segment 2'
Node=9=10
STh={S2}
SMo={S3}
Len={L23}
Conical
Waveguide 'Horn segment 3'
Node=10=11
STh={S3}
SMo={S4}
Len={L34}
Conical
Radiator 'Horn mouth'
Node=11
SD={S4}
Def_Const
{
S1 = 1.00e-4;
S2 = 840.00e-4;
S3 = 1680.00e-4;
S4 = 3227.00e-4;
L12 = 0.10e-2;
L23 = 272.10e-2;
L34 = 48.10e-2;
Sd = 1680.00e-4;
}
Def_Driver 'Driver'
Sd=1680.00cm2
Bl=25.10Tm
Cms=6.83E-05m/N
Rms=9.17Ns/m
fs=32.9998Hz
Le=1.70mH
Re=3.30ohm
ExpoLe=1
System 'System'
Driver Def='Driver''Driver'
Node=1=0=9=10
Filter 'HP1'
fo=31Hz vo=1
{b2=1;
a2=1; a1=1.414214; a0=1; }
Filter 'LP1'
fo=89Hz vo=1
{b0=1;
a4=1; a3=2.613126; a2=3.414214; a1=2.613126; a0=1; }
Waveguide 'Horn segment 1'
Node=8=9
STh={S1}
SMo={S2}
Len={L12}
Conical
Waveguide 'Horn segment 2'
Node=9=10
STh={S2}
SMo={S3}
Len={L23}
Conical
Waveguide 'Horn segment 3'
Node=10=11
STh={S3}
SMo={S4}
Len={L34}
Conical
Radiator 'Horn mouth'
Node=11
SD={S4}
B&C 21SW152-4 surprisingly flat response with only a 2nd order highpass filter @31Hz and 4th order lowpass @89Hz, -3dB down points 32Hz &102Hz. Not everyone will run out and buy a 21" driver but I think I may have to
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi,
Agree again,
FYI:
of my comments herehttp://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...ids-tweeter-big-boy-system-3.html#post2581281
b
Last edited:
Hey SpeedySteve -
Don't rule out 1st-order slopes in there , you might be surprised .
Bruce's Edgar's experience certainly must carry some weight :
edgarinterview
( about half way through the article ) .
I certainly prefered 1st-order to 2nd-order when running my Azura 425's with a big Onken based on the Supravox 285GMF ; better integration of tone and dynamics .
Let ears be the judge !
( Ok , I'm not suggesting a 1st-order low pass for the Tapped horn ).
MJ
Don't rule out 1st-order slopes in there , you might be surprised .
Bruce's Edgar's experience certainly must carry some weight :
edgarinterview
( about half way through the article ) .
I certainly prefered 1st-order to 2nd-order when running my Azura 425's with a big Onken based on the Supravox 285GMF ; better integration of tone and dynamics .
Let ears be the judge !
( Ok , I'm not suggesting a 1st-order low pass for the Tapped horn ).
MJ
I'm looking for a pair of TH like these for my outdoor deck, do you have the plans and what driver was used
Also, is there any way to reduce the excursion? The driver runs out of excursion at less than 10W input.
Hi,
Checked your simulation... Looking good...IMO Capable of SPL:s I seldom exceed (without any HPF) when using a single sub.
b
Attachments
Hey guys.
I've been researching tapped horns and folded horns and with a specific driver and a lot of hornresp simulating I just can't understand how a tapped horn is better than a traditional folded horn.
My driver is some cheap random 12" driver. The cone is a bit soft to my liking but the basket is really sturdy. The T/S parameters are
Fo/ res. freq = 24.6209 Hz
Qms = 2.9641
Qes = 0.4506
Qts = 0.3911
Vas = 270.4473 ( litr )
According to the manafacturer.
With these specs I just can't get a significantly smaller enclosure with a TH compared to a folded horn? I'd like to keep it at around 350l internal volume with extension from just under 30 to 80hz or higher.
It will be going in a "long" room, 6m x 3m x2,4m(h) if it makes a difference.
So, this is what I've come up with in a folded horn: [IMG=http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/9821/hornresp.jpg][/IMG]
And with 2pi + 2,83V
Can you make me a smaller and better one? I couldn't..
Also on tapped horns I simulated the impulse response looks horrible.. Is it just me?
I've been researching tapped horns and folded horns and with a specific driver and a lot of hornresp simulating I just can't understand how a tapped horn is better than a traditional folded horn.
My driver is some cheap random 12" driver. The cone is a bit soft to my liking but the basket is really sturdy. The T/S parameters are
Fo/ res. freq = 24.6209 Hz
Qms = 2.9641
Qes = 0.4506
Qts = 0.3911
Vas = 270.4473 ( litr )
According to the manafacturer.
With these specs I just can't get a significantly smaller enclosure with a TH compared to a folded horn? I'd like to keep it at around 350l internal volume with extension from just under 30 to 80hz or higher.
It will be going in a "long" room, 6m x 3m x2,4m(h) if it makes a difference.
So, this is what I've come up with in a folded horn: [IMG=http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/9821/hornresp.jpg][/IMG]
And with 2pi + 2,83V
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Can you make me a smaller and better one? I couldn't..
Also on tapped horns I simulated the impulse response looks horrible.. Is it just me?
Hello. It's an old driver I got for free from an electronics shop. It is a "no name" part and all I have is the driver and the given T/S values.
It's not necessarily built for horn use and the cone is quite flimsy in my opinion. I thought that this might not hurt performance that much with a S1 almost 1.5 times the Sd.
I am interested in building a horn sub and my original idea was to make one as a "test" with this free driver. However if this driver isn't suited at all for horns (Is it?) I will probably just donate it to a friend or something.
No use making a proof of concept sub if I don't do it right
Thanks for your help so far
-Artturi
It's not necessarily built for horn use and the cone is quite flimsy in my opinion. I thought that this might not hurt performance that much with a S1 almost 1.5 times the Sd.
I am interested in building a horn sub and my original idea was to make one as a "test" with this free driver. However if this driver isn't suited at all for horns (Is it?) I will probably just donate it to a friend or something.
No use making a proof of concept sub if I don't do it right
Thanks for your help so far
-Artturi