Recently received a pair of the new Mark Audio CHN-70 drivers. Eager to get my ears on them and short on time to build a new enclosure, I ran a quick sim of the CHN-70 in a Metronome designed for the FE108eSigma. Not half bad! Just stuffed BlueTack into the old screw holes, and Voila!
So they are now softly playing classical music curtesy of WMHT. Sounds nice so far, but with peek levels of 60 dB at 1 meter, who can tell for sure? We shall see what they sound like in a few weeks when it’s OK to play music at reasonable listening levels.
The CHN-70 is the blue driver, sitting between the F120A Met (right) and FF225wk Pappa’s TL (left).
Cheers, Jim
So they are now softly playing classical music curtesy of WMHT. Sounds nice so far, but with peek levels of 60 dB at 1 meter, who can tell for sure? We shall see what they sound like in a few weeks when it’s OK to play music at reasonable listening levels.
The CHN-70 is the blue driver, sitting between the F120A Met (right) and FF225wk Pappa’s TL (left).
Cheers, Jim
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I put a pair in a small vented box on Monday, so I've got the first 100 hours on them. I'll give them a little more juice today. So far, I like what I've heard. After another 100 hours or so, I'll give them even more juice. When Dave from Planet 10 and the other gurus on these drivers and enclosures have more designs, I'll either put these in something else or order another pair. These seem like great little speakers, especially for the price.
Mike
Mike
Early listening impressions of the CHN-70 in the Metronome (as shown above) after 90 hrs of break-in—can’t wait any longer. NOTE: Further break-in may result in improvements! It takes much longer to break-in the MA drivers following Mark’s guidelines— only able to do 10 to 12 hrs per day (in two stretches), as opposed to my practice with Fostex drivers, where I run them 24/7 until I get to 300 hrs or so.
Playing with peak levels reaching 70 dB— higher levels will come later after I get more hrs on the drivers. Pretty obvious at this stage that the some BSC is needed: tried 0.5 mH & 1.5 ohms, but moved up to 0.5 mH & 3 ohms.
Source was my 15 yr old Denon CD player; driven by my vintage Yamaha CR-1000 receiver (direct coupled SS).
Test tracks:
— Ode to a Butterfly, performed by Nickel Creek
— Urgent Desir, performed by Lara Fabian
— Crazy Faith; performed by Alison Krauss
— Blue Rondo a la Turk, performed by Dave Brubeck
— Nevermind; performed by Airto Moreira
Comparing with FE108eSigma Mets; note that the CHN-70 cost $27 each, while the 108 cost $112.50 each. My wife & I agree that the CHN-70 sounds quite good; we would be happy listening to them for long periods of time. No issues with sibilance; no harshness. Because I have a particular fondness for the 108, I may suffer from expectation bias; my wife is a disinterested party and only knew that I was switching between speaker A and speaker B. In my wife’s words: the CHN-70 sounds more smoothed over; piano notes are not as clear & bright; cymbals are also a bit dull by comparison to the 108. The 108 also has a bit more depth of sound stage than the CHN-70. Other differences are even more subtle; suffice it to say that the two drivers do sound different in the mid-range, but I think it’s a matter of preference rather than one being more correct than the other. And with sub-par recordings, the CHN-70 may help conceal warts that would otherwise make the recording unlistenable for some. I think in particular of classical recordings where the massed violins are particularly harsh. (Which begs the question: is it better to use fewer mics, further from the instruments so that the sound from individual stringed instruments have time to blend, as they would in a live concert; or place many, many mics close to the strings and assume that the blending at the recording console approximates what you hear live in your favorite concert hall seat? Inquiring minds want to know!))
As with the 108, I would use the CHN-70 with a sub. The bottom end may be sufficient for casual listening, but adding another octave on the low end takes it up to another level.
Since they aren’t fully broken in yet, I can’t crack up the volume to see how they do at louder levels, but I am expecting them to do well there too.
Bottom line: I think the CHN-70 is already looking like a real bargain! (However, for those who have wondered: yes, there _is_ a reason why Mark produces the more expensive Alpair 7 series drivers.) When they have a few hundred more hours on them, they may be even better!
More later…
Cheers, Jim
Playing with peak levels reaching 70 dB— higher levels will come later after I get more hrs on the drivers. Pretty obvious at this stage that the some BSC is needed: tried 0.5 mH & 1.5 ohms, but moved up to 0.5 mH & 3 ohms.
Source was my 15 yr old Denon CD player; driven by my vintage Yamaha CR-1000 receiver (direct coupled SS).
Test tracks:
— Ode to a Butterfly, performed by Nickel Creek
— Urgent Desir, performed by Lara Fabian
— Crazy Faith; performed by Alison Krauss
— Blue Rondo a la Turk, performed by Dave Brubeck
— Nevermind; performed by Airto Moreira
Comparing with FE108eSigma Mets; note that the CHN-70 cost $27 each, while the 108 cost $112.50 each. My wife & I agree that the CHN-70 sounds quite good; we would be happy listening to them for long periods of time. No issues with sibilance; no harshness. Because I have a particular fondness for the 108, I may suffer from expectation bias; my wife is a disinterested party and only knew that I was switching between speaker A and speaker B. In my wife’s words: the CHN-70 sounds more smoothed over; piano notes are not as clear & bright; cymbals are also a bit dull by comparison to the 108. The 108 also has a bit more depth of sound stage than the CHN-70. Other differences are even more subtle; suffice it to say that the two drivers do sound different in the mid-range, but I think it’s a matter of preference rather than one being more correct than the other. And with sub-par recordings, the CHN-70 may help conceal warts that would otherwise make the recording unlistenable for some. I think in particular of classical recordings where the massed violins are particularly harsh. (Which begs the question: is it better to use fewer mics, further from the instruments so that the sound from individual stringed instruments have time to blend, as they would in a live concert; or place many, many mics close to the strings and assume that the blending at the recording console approximates what you hear live in your favorite concert hall seat? Inquiring minds want to know!))
As with the 108, I would use the CHN-70 with a sub. The bottom end may be sufficient for casual listening, but adding another octave on the low end takes it up to another level.
Since they aren’t fully broken in yet, I can’t crack up the volume to see how they do at louder levels, but I am expecting them to do well there too.
Bottom line: I think the CHN-70 is already looking like a real bargain! (However, for those who have wondered: yes, there _is_ a reason why Mark produces the more expensive Alpair 7 series drivers.) When they have a few hundred more hours on them, they may be even better!
More later…
Cheers, Jim
Seems a bit odd imo, the notion of break in as per the requirements of an Octogenarian Triumph Spitfire engine.
Ie; gradually and incremental usage for wayyy too many miles as the tedious break in procedure advances.
There are not 2000 poorly matched machined parts all rubbing together in a speaker.
The Spider is the item in a speaker that benefits from a bit of use softening.
Unlikely you are doing the things (or yourself) any favors babying/protracting the procedure.
But then these are yours
Ie; gradually and incremental usage for wayyy too many miles as the tedious break in procedure advances.
There are not 2000 poorly matched machined parts all rubbing together in a speaker.
The Spider is the item in a speaker that benefits from a bit of use softening.
Unlikely you are doing the things (or yourself) any favors babying/protracting the procedure.
But then these are yours
Interesting stuff as always Jim. Thanks for sharing; I've had very little experience with the CHN (a few minutes with them in a test box only) so good to get some other views. As for break in, +1 in following the manufacturer guidelines. Since they designed & made them, methinks they might know what the optimal means is...
As for break in, +1 in following the manufacturer guidelines. Since they designed & made them, methinks they might know what the optimal means is...
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Just an opinion only - The manufacturer is also wanting to avoid unnecessary warranty returns or to have to provide more detailed instructions and support for more complex break-in procedures. I doubt very much that the loooong break-in regime is the only way to reach the goal but it would likely be a nightmare to expect customers to follow something more complex (e.g. using pink noise at escalating and de-escalating peak values).
Jim:
Thanks Jim to taking time to make this thread to pass on your project knowledge and future results and for operating the drivers correctly.
Bare:
I've spent the last decade researching, designing and building long-throw, low-mass and ultra low-mass extended response drivers. Their design and operational requirements are Significantly different from standard designs. The power-train of a Markaudio driver consists of a small number of components but the design and operational properties remain extremely complex. I've published a number of posts on these specifics over recent years that explain issues to do with the working loads on suspensions and the operational properties of low-mass wide-profile cones.
Bigun:
Naturally you're welcome to your opinion. However, its not accurate. Let me be ultra clear on the issue; I approach my work from a "mechanical engineering" perspective. So when I advise an operational procedure, its done purely in the interest of giving end-users the best opportunity to get the most from their Markaudio drivers and enjoy them. Nothing else is in my mind when I'm doing this work.
Guys:
Members and end-users......Anybody! Please bear in mind that when you're using an low/ultra-low mass full-ranger, especially a long throw unit (extend excursion) they're NOT the same as your typical parts-bin specials that constitute the bulk of choice on the market today. The bulk makers do 2 main things:
1 - They produce more mechanically limited units with relatively stiff suspensions. Why: because they're cheaper to make, use lower grade materials, easier to assemble requiring less jig/alignment and the reject rate (NG rate) is lower.
2 - They produce drivers that have a wider power-band margin because they consider most operators (you) to have inadequate knowledge on driver loadings and operation. Suspensions, coil bodies and cones are beefed up. Cones emissions are particularly damped in favour of increased mass to handle unforeseen or over-extended loadings.
These common types of driver won't normally require much (if any) running-in.
While I can't speak for other makers, I strongly recommend paying attention to any advisories they issue and operate the drivers accordingly.
If you're a regular user of proper authentic full-range units, you'll know what I'm talking about. If you're relatively new to authentic full-range technology, please take note and don't fall into the trap that an increasing number of members make; Assuming that full-rangers are essentially the same as other drivers, They aren't.
Thanks
Mark.
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Hi Spekr, I am pretty sure Mark knows what he's doing and what he's talking about.
I own both the CHR70 (metal) and CHP70 (paper cone version of CHR70); and despite their modest price, I can confirm what Mark had said and reassure you the cone and suspension appear to quite thin and delicate when compared to other off-the-shelf drivers.
They are fairly robust mechanically, but still I would not turn them all the way up right out of the box - better to adapt to the signature and have a rough idea of the dynamic range of the drivers before you try to punish them with more complex tracks.
And yes, despite the built-in BSC compensation, a mild 3dB BSC does make them more versatile speakers.
spekr,
I believe from other posts I have read that pushing MA drivers too hard, too soon has resulted in damage. Mark has said many times that his drivers are not woofers (although he has just introduced one) and should not be treated the way you would a large, heavy duty woofer.
Further comments on listening: up to 140hrs on the CHN's now. The more I listen to them, the more I like them. While not as detailed as the more expensive MA drivers (and having the limited bass output that one expects from small SFRD's), these are very engaging and enjoyable! I can see that many folks would be quite satisfied with the CHN s their daily speaker.
Cheers, Jim
I believe from other posts I have read that pushing MA drivers too hard, too soon has resulted in damage. Mark has said many times that his drivers are not woofers (although he has just introduced one) and should not be treated the way you would a large, heavy duty woofer.
Further comments on listening: up to 140hrs on the CHN's now. The more I listen to them, the more I like them. While not as detailed as the more expensive MA drivers (and having the limited bass output that one expects from small SFRD's), these are very engaging and enjoyable! I can see that many folks would be quite satisfied with the CHN s their daily speaker.
Cheers, Jim
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Joined 2009
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If I don't believe in Mark's driver breaking in process, I would just look elsewhere. There are tons of other drivers in the market.
Having said that, my A10Ps in pensil enclosure has given me nothing but good experience the past year and a half and I'm looking forward to trying these CHN-70s.
Thanks Jim for sharing your findings.
Having said that, my A10Ps in pensil enclosure has given me nothing but good experience the past year and a half and I'm looking forward to trying these CHN-70s.
Thanks Jim for sharing your findings.
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Pink noise can be highly dynamic. Depends on its crest factor. Some pink noise generators allow the user to specify the crest factor.
Regarding break in, if Markaudio drivers need a special break in procedure to protect them from damage then I would expect the manufacturer to release instructions and provide them with the driver. Are those instructions available somewhere?
But my original question remains, why do Markaudio drivers need a specific break in procedure? Does that procedure change the driver's (mechanical) properties? Which and how?
Regarding break in, if Markaudio drivers need a special break in procedure to protect them from damage then I would expect the manufacturer to release instructions and provide them with the driver. Are those instructions available somewhere?
But my original question remains, why do Markaudio drivers need a specific break in procedure? Does that procedure change the driver's (mechanical) properties? Which and how?
See Mark's comments in post 10. You will also, if you run a search, find multiple posts by him on the subject of the suspension &c. design of his drivers. Break in advice is clearly stated on the data sheets for the CHN, CHP, CHR, 6A[M], 6P, 7A, 7P, 10.2 (carries over for the 10MA & 10P), 12P and 12PW. Advice is also to be found on their forum.
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The issue I've had in the past with break-in is that I don't want the noise in my house during the break-in period. What I did last time (with a non-Mark Audio driver mind) was to put the driver and an FM receiver into my basement cold storage room. Canadian houses have concrete lined basements and there's usually a small room underneath the front door step (which forms a concrete cap) and it's very isolated if not a little chilly in the winter. Trouble is you can't get good receptions and I didn't trust the reception not to suddenly increase and stress the driver. I tuned off-station to background noise only, turned up the bass and turned down the treble to get a bias towards 'pink noise' and left it down there for a couple of week. It worked like a charm. Of course this is just an 'fyi' and not consistent with what Mark recommends but I share it in case anybody else has an interesting break-in process that might be more applicable here ?
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