Considering the last couple of used purchases, we'd have been better off acquiring or building new spare parts for our SeaKing choppers - at least they have a proven need - WTF does Canada need submarines (even working ones), or for that matter, single engine stealthy fighter jets for? Whom exactly will be threatening our sovereignty in methods such that those defence technologies will work?Another bad idea if you're a Canuck.
jeff
Soon we can probably retire most of our ice breakers as well
If not already done so, to vent much more in the subject would most certainly contravene forum guidelines on profanity and politics.
Not too controversial to comment on this one - it depends on whereabouts on a slope, or proximate to a high water-table / flood plain you're situated. I've had minor basement flooding a few years ago when perimeter clay drain tiles were blocked by tree roots and subsided/ broke . That was much fun - happened on a Christmas Eve dinner when we got about an inch and half or so of rainfall - much deeper than that when it backs up through basement drains at laundry / water heater and furnace rooms
Bigun- Cal's daytime job is in the building inspection trade, and I'm sure he among others could attest that such generalizations as yours to nation-wide residential building designs and codes, and adherence thereto, are simply incorrect.
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OK, so the CHN-70 have about 250 hrs on them now. I advanced the volume control so that some tracks have reached peaks of 82 dB (on my RS SPL meter, “C” weighting & ‘max’ hold settings), which is pretty close to as loud as I ever listen in my 16’ x 13’ room w/ cathedral ceiling.
The executive summary is: at $27 each, I think these are a steal!
Playing Miles Davis’ Kind of Blue & Sonny Rollins’ Saxophone Colossus; thoroughly enjoying the music. Jazz is sounding _very_ good! For a jazz aficionado on a budget or someone with a small/modest size room, the CHN-70 might be the cat’s pajamas! Especially in the Metronome enclosure. The Met designed for the FE108eSigma may not be fully optimized for the CHN-70, but it can’t be very far off. The CHN-70 produces sufficient low freq for the double bass.
Classical is reasonably good, but full orchestra is taxing their capabilities—things are getting congested at more than very modest volumes when the orchestra is in ‘full flight’. But they play bigger than I would expect.
The high freq is a bit rolled off compared to other drivers (like the FE108eS), HOWEVER, I have found better synergy by switching the upstream components. I wanted to try using CAT5e speaker cable instead of the 16 ga. zip cord I used with the Denon-Yamaha combo. Previous experience showed me that the CAT5e (4 solid colors tied together for (+) & 4 stripes tied together for (-)) is a bit ‘brighter’ than zip cord, probably due to the CAT5e having more capacitance. With the Yamaha buried inside a cabinet, I couldn’t easily switch speaker cables, so I changed out everything. Now running an Emotiva ERC-3 (gen 2) CDP & Sansui 350A vintage receiver with CAT5e cables. This adds enough to the top end that I am satisfied with the sound of cymbals, triangle, etc. I probably should try swapping CAT5e and zip cord on this combo to see how much of the effect is due to cables and how much to the Sansui. The Sansui uses cap coupled output, which interacts very differently with drivers than the direct coupled output of the Yamaha. Some folks refer to the these vintage cap coupled Sansui units as having a ‘tube like’ sound. And then I need to try both single ended and P-P tube amps as well. So many options, so little time!
At this point, my only concern is to keep from destroying the CHN-70 with over excursion. It would be very easy to forget that these are small drivers with limited Xmax and no ‘arrestor’ feature like on the higher priced MA drivers. I expect that something like Tchaikovsky’s 1812 Overture with its canon shots could release the magic smoke! Now, if only I had an AVR with the ability to select filters for the speakers so that they would be protected from freqs lower than say, 80 Hz, and the offending freqs could be directed to a sub, everything would be perfect!
Cheers, Jim
The executive summary is: at $27 each, I think these are a steal!
Playing Miles Davis’ Kind of Blue & Sonny Rollins’ Saxophone Colossus; thoroughly enjoying the music. Jazz is sounding _very_ good! For a jazz aficionado on a budget or someone with a small/modest size room, the CHN-70 might be the cat’s pajamas! Especially in the Metronome enclosure. The Met designed for the FE108eSigma may not be fully optimized for the CHN-70, but it can’t be very far off. The CHN-70 produces sufficient low freq for the double bass.
Classical is reasonably good, but full orchestra is taxing their capabilities—things are getting congested at more than very modest volumes when the orchestra is in ‘full flight’. But they play bigger than I would expect.
The high freq is a bit rolled off compared to other drivers (like the FE108eS), HOWEVER, I have found better synergy by switching the upstream components. I wanted to try using CAT5e speaker cable instead of the 16 ga. zip cord I used with the Denon-Yamaha combo. Previous experience showed me that the CAT5e (4 solid colors tied together for (+) & 4 stripes tied together for (-)) is a bit ‘brighter’ than zip cord, probably due to the CAT5e having more capacitance. With the Yamaha buried inside a cabinet, I couldn’t easily switch speaker cables, so I changed out everything. Now running an Emotiva ERC-3 (gen 2) CDP & Sansui 350A vintage receiver with CAT5e cables. This adds enough to the top end that I am satisfied with the sound of cymbals, triangle, etc. I probably should try swapping CAT5e and zip cord on this combo to see how much of the effect is due to cables and how much to the Sansui. The Sansui uses cap coupled output, which interacts very differently with drivers than the direct coupled output of the Yamaha. Some folks refer to the these vintage cap coupled Sansui units as having a ‘tube like’ sound. And then I need to try both single ended and P-P tube amps as well. So many options, so little time!
At this point, my only concern is to keep from destroying the CHN-70 with over excursion. It would be very easy to forget that these are small drivers with limited Xmax and no ‘arrestor’ feature like on the higher priced MA drivers. I expect that something like Tchaikovsky’s 1812 Overture with its canon shots could release the magic smoke! Now, if only I had an AVR with the ability to select filters for the speakers so that they would be protected from freqs lower than say, 80 Hz, and the offending freqs could be directed to a sub, everything would be perfect!
Cheers, Jim
that's it
well, Squeak answered a bit more tersely than I'm frequently wont to do.
Filter goes between the source / preamp and power amp stage(s). All sub plate amps I've ever used have included an inline filter - some with full range feed through for daisy-chaining to additional plate amps or to the main.
Think of the device (amp or speaker) as a load the filter (XO) "sees" - the math to calculate values for any order of filter function includes the load impedance as one of the variables, and as any of numerous on-line calculators will show, the lower that load, the higher the value of C required for the same XO turnover point. I happen to like using simple 1st order slopes for this type of line-level HP, as you can use the amp's input impedance as the R, and require only a single value of C. In fact, for a fixed XO, the cap can be installed at the RCA input jack with a bypass switch, eliminating a couple of external jacks and keeping the signal path short.
I use the spreadsheet linked here TLS.org | Passive Line-Level Crossover to do the math.
Amen to that. I often forget I'm wearing my beer muffs and...
The house I own has a half basement, I was simply pointing out that around here at least, there are many types, that's all.Do I detect a little Basement Envy
Most low lying houses have them. Thankfully, mine's up a hill. I even have floor drains in the basement.
Amen to that.
So... are you saying that the sub amps you've seen have a built in filter to protect the non-sub driver??? I'm going to be playing these at the DIY Iowa show this weekend and I don't want to over-drive them. I have a sub with this amp (Dayton Audio SA25 25W Subwoofer Plate Amplifier) to use with the CHNs. If I can find a store in Des Moines, Iowa that sells electronic components, I'll pick up the components I need. My only issue is that I don't believe I'll be able to go with a line level highpass. My source will be either a computer, an iPhone/Android, or a CD player and My amp will be a Dayton Audio APA 150(Dayton Audio APA150 150W Power Amplifier).
Thanks for the advice. You guys are a very valuable source for those of us who enjoy single driver units but don't have the know-how of guys like you and Dave. I for one truly appreciate your willingness to share and your patience.
Mike
Mike,
If you are thinking of using a single cap on the speaker wire input to the CHN-70, you need to remember that the result may be different than a simple cal using cap value & static resistance of the driver. You need to know the impedance vs freq. Below is an impedance graph for the CHN-70 in the Met cabinet (which was designed for the FE108eS) from an MJK MathCAD sim. Note that it doesn't look like the graph for the driver on the MA web site, since that one is based on the baffle used in the anechoic testing. What your cabinet will do is unknown to me. As impedance increases, the effect of the cap decreases. Bottom line: you may not get the protection you think you will & you could mess up the bass response.
I second Chrisb's rec of PLLXO. One possible solution would be to buy one those cheap line level filters from Parts Express.
And in the end, as a (retired) analytical chemist, I still hold to our slogan:
"One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions."
Cheers, Jim
If you are thinking of using a single cap on the speaker wire input to the CHN-70, you need to remember that the result may be different than a simple cal using cap value & static resistance of the driver. You need to know the impedance vs freq. Below is an impedance graph for the CHN-70 in the Met cabinet (which was designed for the FE108eS) from an MJK MathCAD sim. Note that it doesn't look like the graph for the driver on the MA web site, since that one is based on the baffle used in the anechoic testing. What your cabinet will do is unknown to me. As impedance increases, the effect of the cap decreases. Bottom line: you may not get the protection you think you will & you could mess up the bass response.
I second Chrisb's rec of PLLXO. One possible solution would be to buy one those cheap line level filters from Parts Express.
And in the end, as a (retired) analytical chemist, I still hold to our slogan:
"One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions."
Cheers, Jim
Attachments
The Dayton 25W unit does not, it is a simple pass through. Unlike Chris' experience, this is the only plate amp I have that does not have a cap on the speaker level outs.
You certainly need to read the owner's manual (if extant) for each model of plate amp - and of course there are models with either only inputs at speaker level, or none at all.
And as noted above, when present, the HP's XO turnover (between 125 - 160 on the first couple I checked) will be calculated on a nominal impedance of 8ohms, which may not be the case at those frequencies for FR drivers likely to be used.
But as I can't recall the last time I connected a plate amp at speaker level, so it's all moot - back to your regularly schedule expert opinions.
I will never use a plate amp again. Since I have stereo subs, I would need two of them. 500 watt class plate amps run $200-300 each. My Crown XLS 1500 cost $400 and puts out an honest 750w/ch @4Ω. Has a real XO built in, but not pass through. It can be used as a 2-way mono amp, but then you need two of them. 750w into an FF85WK
Bob
Bob
Yes.
I have but two systems like that.
I may feel the same but we all learn as we go along, right?
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