Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I Should Change My name To Frank.........
"bars and night clubs",
Had Eric known what systems those places use (I did a diligence on a leading global pro audio company in the last three months), he might elect to change that,.
Hint: it is like saying you can hear cables over a pair of $1 a pair RadioShack speakers,
But Eric may indeed have godly ears so who knows.
Steve Eddy said:
"bars and night clubs",
Had Eric known what systems those places use (I did a diligence on a leading global pro audio company in the last three months), he might elect to change that,
.Hint: it is like saying you can hear cables over a pair of $1 a pair RadioShack speakers,
But Eric may indeed have godly ears so who knows.
Steve Eddy said:
Wow, I didn't know that. What does Frank sell?
I think this place is kind of interesting in that you got a guy selling gainclones priasing how great those amps are, you got a guy (or two) selling cables praising how big of an audible difference he can hear with cable.
Yet, on the other spectrum you got Pass and Curl who have real interest in promoting audio and helping folks out (and separating their vested interests in audio from their pariticipation in this forum).
I guess from that point of view, it is a great public service to remind people, especially new comers, that some of us may have a vested interest guiding the discussions in certain directions.
I would have been banned and fined and prosecuted if I did anything that remotely resembles such kind of "conflict of interest".
Hi,
Not a single thing.
As a former designer and consultant for companies still alive I don't feel an urge to reveal whatever makes their product unique.
That doesn't stop me from helping people out as I am sure many can testify.
You just have to draw the line somewhere.
BTW, Millwood, in case you haven't noticed yet, SE does sell audio stuff as a brief visit to his website will tell you.
Did it ever occur to you someone may just be on a cheap fishing trip here? Emphasis on MAY.
Cheers,
Not a single thing.
As a former designer and consultant for companies still alive I don't feel an urge to reveal whatever makes their product unique.
That doesn't stop me from helping people out as I am sure many can testify.
You just have to draw the line somewhere.
BTW, Millwood, in case you haven't noticed yet, SE does sell audio stuff as a brief visit to his website will tell you.
Did it ever occur to you someone may just be on a cheap fishing trip here? Emphasis on MAY.
Cheers,
fdegrove said:BTW, Millwood, in case you haven't noticed yet, SE does sell audio stuff as a brief visit to his website will tell you.Cheers,
no. I didn't know that. What does se sell? where is his website?
fdegrove said:Did it ever occur to you someone may just be on a cheap fishing trip here? Emphasis on MAY.
Cheers,
I am less concerned about the fishing trip but more so on the conflict of interest. there should be full disclosure.
Hi,
And voila, some free publicity:
QAUDIO
Mind you, pushing the www button as shown on his post would have accomplished the same.
Eric has one too but that just refers to his repair shop.
I don't mind any of this but you do understand I'll respond differently, don't you?
Let me add to this that I'd also respond differently to Peter Daniel or Nelson Pass who seem totally transparent on this, I am sure anyone can spot the difference.
I hope you see John Curls' and my responses in a different light now.
Cheers,
And voila, some free publicity:
QAUDIO
Mind you, pushing the www button as shown on his post would have accomplished the same.
Eric has one too but that just refers to his repair shop.
I don't mind any of this but you do understand I'll respond differently, don't you?
Let me add to this that I'd also respond differently to Peter Daniel or Nelson Pass who seem totally transparent on this, I am sure anyone can spot the difference.
I hope you see John Curls' and my responses in a different light now.
Cheers,
millwood said:
I didn't say Frank sold anything. What Frank does is make empty technical claims and then when questioned, hides behind commercial interests. Namely van den Hul's.
If you're referring to Peter in that first part, I don't recall his ever making technical claims and then when questioned refusing to substantiate them by hiding behind commercial interests.
I don't have a problem with people who have a commercial involvement in this industry discussing technical issues which may relate to their commercial involvement. As long as they're willing to discuss these technical issues openly, everyone can benefit.
What I have a problem with are those who enter into technical discussions who make technical claims and then when those technical claims are questioned, they run and hide behind silly guessing games or flat out say they won't give you any details.
In this situation, you no longer have a technical discussion but what amounts to nothing more than marketing.
se
fdegrove said:
I have always thought John is fair and upfront about his commercial involvement and did a superb job separating that from his involvement here. He and Pass are two role models for some people here.
No, I didn't change my view on you the least bit.
Steve Eddy said:
I would agree with se on this.
Hi,
Empty for you perhaps...
You just don't get it, do you?
Of course you don't...You're one of them anyway.
I, for one have a major problem with people having a company active in audio asking, even demanding about things they don't even have a clue about to the potential benefit of their own company.
I don't recall Peter making much technical claims in the first place.
Nice try, Steve but I won't bite...When something smells fishy it usually is fishy.
So, that's goodbye to you I reckon?
I'd expected that. Nothing "bankable" for you here either, huh?
Cheers,
Empty for you perhaps...
You just don't get it, do you?
Of course you don't...You're one of them anyway.
I, for one have a major problem with people having a company active in audio asking, even demanding about things they don't even have a clue about to the potential benefit of their own company.
I don't recall Peter making much technical claims in the first place.
Nice try, Steve but I won't bite...When something smells fishy it usually is fishy.
So, that's goodbye to you I reckon?
I'd expected that. Nothing "bankable" for you here either, huh?
Cheers,
Cables and Wires!
Seems the best thing a company can do today is just say"Hey,it works.try it and see how well it works in your system". I think that might be the most honest statement a cable Co. could make these days, but I see so many claim they do this and that without any substantial evidence which supports their claims. And there are some wild *** claims out there.
The best thing an audio enthusiast can do is Experiment to see what works best for them instead of going by the claims that others make. Then there are those who claim that everything sounds the same. I do not know weather to feel sorry for those people or have empathy for them. They seem to dismiss any findings or opinions without even consideration or experimentation . A real shame ,but then again it’s their right. Ignorance is bliss after all.
As for myself I studied different designs ,then build them and choose which designs worked best for me. Now I wish someone would take measurements to see why they worked for me and others I have asked to try them.
If I were to buy commercial wires I would look for designs that worked best based on my home experiments. Does not cost as much as what the commercial variations cost to find out what might work best in particular systems. How many people spend 1000’s mixing and matching to see what works when it only takes a few 100.
Just thinking!
Seems the best thing a company can do today is just say"Hey,it works.try it and see how well it works in your system". I think that might be the most honest statement a cable Co. could make these days, but I see so many claim they do this and that without any substantial evidence which supports their claims. And there are some wild *** claims out there.
The best thing an audio enthusiast can do is Experiment to see what works best for them instead of going by the claims that others make. Then there are those who claim that everything sounds the same. I do not know weather to feel sorry for those people or have empathy for them. They seem to dismiss any findings or opinions without even consideration or experimentation . A real shame ,but then again it’s their right. Ignorance is bliss after all.
As for myself I studied different designs ,then build them and choose which designs worked best for me. Now I wish someone would take measurements to see why they worked for me and others I have asked to try them.
If I were to buy commercial wires I would look for designs that worked best based on my home experiments. Does not cost as much as what the commercial variations cost to find out what might work best in particular systems. How many people spend 1000’s mixing and matching to see what works when it only takes a few 100.
Just thinking!
NEAR_SOTA said:
Agreed. Though when it comes to marketing, honesty isn't always the best policy. Gotta have some sort of "hook" to differentiate from the crowd. Gotta have a "problem" which you're offering a solution for. I think this is what tends to drive some cable makers into making wilder and wilder claims.
se
Hi Frank,fdegrove said:Hi,
In defense of Eric, last time I checked he's not selling any cables under any brandname.
From what I gathered from telephone conversation and reading his postings it's more a service rather than a product.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Eric.
It's easy to mock what one doesn't understand, isn't it?
Cheers,
Yes you are correct in that I am not selling any cables.
At this point in time I have mostly spent time fine tuning the on stage and PA sound of a seriously good band that I know (I also repair their backline gear).
The FOH sound guys who have been involved are very thankfull and supportive (they have open minds and good ears).
None of these guys have mocked what they have heard.
Before hearing they were looking at me real strange, but afterwood are full of praise.
Experienced prosound guys know what they hear and are much better qualified audiophiles than the average member around here.
When was the last time that you did a live mix Steve ?.
Secret Cable Business
I think "marketing" might be viewed as very polite and restrained .....
There was a great episode in Australian politics, of which this thread reminds me ..... "Secret Women's Business".
In short, a commercial venture was stalled at the Federal Govt. level due to claims that the land in question held secret importance for the women of an aboriginal tribe ..... they had submitted this to the govt., however, as the Minister in question was male he was not allowed at actually read the submission, he was asked to simply accept that the contents of the document were worthy ....... and behold, he did
Hereafter, I would suggest that this thread be renamed "Secret Cable Business" .....
I think "marketing" might be viewed as very polite and restrained .....
There was a great episode in Australian politics, of which this thread reminds me ..... "Secret Women's Business".
In short, a commercial venture was stalled at the Federal Govt. level due to claims that the land in question held secret importance for the women of an aboriginal tribe ..... they had submitted this to the govt., however, as the Minister in question was male he was not allowed at actually read the submission, he was asked to simply accept that the contents of the document were worthy ....... and behold, he did
Hereafter, I would suggest that this thread be renamed "Secret Cable Business" .....
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:.............
Originally posted by millwood
"bars and night clubs",
Live sound systems and live sound engineering is a whole different thing to a DJ system operated by idiot DJ's.
Had Eric known what systems those places use (I did a diligence on a leading global pro audio company in the last three months), he might elect to change that,.
Don't understand what you mean by a 'diligence' ?.
Hint: it is like saying you can hear cables over a pair of $1 a pair RadioShack speakers,
EAW speakers actually - you ought to know what that means.[/b]
But Eric may indeed have godly ears so who knows.
And a whole bunch of other people too, all hearing and saying the same things !.
Eric.
Originally posted by millwood
"bars and night clubs",
Live sound systems and live sound engineering is a whole different thing to a DJ system operated by idiot DJ's.
Had Eric known what systems those places use (I did a diligence on a leading global pro audio company in the last three months), he might elect to change that,
.Don't understand what you mean by a 'diligence' ?.
Hint: it is like saying you can hear cables over a pair of $1 a pair RadioShack speakers,
EAW speakers actually - you ought to know what that means.[/b]
But Eric may indeed have godly ears so who knows.
And a whole bunch of other people too, all hearing and saying the same things !.
Eric.
Eric, I think that I understand your situation. 33 years ago, I started working with the Grateful Dead. I learned what worked and what didn't work by testing them in live music performance. I tried all kinds of things, transformers, open loop circuits, quality IC's, all kinds of stuff. I learned how to make successful audio designs, that stand up today, sonically, before I ever worked with Mark Levinson. Mark was a good craftsman, but I had to show him the direction to go, which I had previously tested with live music.
mrfeedback said:
You don't get it, Eric.
This is supposed to be a technical discussion, not a share-your-amusing-anecdotes discussion. And such anecdotes as these do absolutely nothing to further any techincal discussion. Peter Belt with his frozen photographs and other "tweaks" can share similar amusing anecdotes of people thinking he's crazy but afterward being full of praise of him and the stuff that he sells.
Here, go read some for yourself:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PWB/
Here's an interesting one:
Time to Belt the car (winterize)
Useful informative articles (spring newsletter 2003) and few
postings are available on the subject of treating the automobile.
I tried the Richard Grahams suggestion of adding a drop or two of the sol electret oil to the engine oil. It works. I also added a drop of Sol electret to the transmission fluid.
Cleaning the glass (interior) with mophic fluid is also impressive.
Part of the benefits related to audio improvements, but there are
other instant gratifications. .
Treating the alphanumeric stickers such as vehicle registration,
parking permits, license plates, VIN code is also worthwhile with
cream electret.
Winter also takes care of freezing and thawing cycle of the automobile
V.R. Sola
So tell me, what makes your amusing anecdotes any different from these?
Amusing anecdotes are a dime a dozen. And literally anything can produce positive responses from people.
So what?
se
Apex 40W Ceramic Op Amps - Yeah Right Steve
Thanks for your words of encouragement.
Yes I find that world class musicians, stage instruments and a quite decent (3kW+monitors) PA in a good sounding room makes for a very decent (the ultimate really) test-bed, as has been your experience.
At any rate, infinitely better than whatever kind of speakers Steve has hanging off a couple of Apex-16 power op-amps replaying recordings (nickel core audio line transformers driving a ceramic substrate 40W amp - my ears are oozing blood at just the thought).
Eric.
Hi John,john curl said:
Thanks for your words of encouragement.
Yes I find that world class musicians, stage instruments and a quite decent (3kW+monitors) PA in a good sounding room makes for a very decent (the ultimate really) test-bed, as has been your experience.
At any rate, infinitely better than whatever kind of speakers Steve has hanging off a couple of Apex-16 power op-amps replaying recordings (nickel core audio line transformers driving a ceramic substrate 40W amp - my ears are oozing blood at just the thought).
Eric.
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