So to get the story short. I have 4 bass bins from an italian company called peecker sound. Basically they are EV T18 cabs made out of MDF and there are RCF L18S800 drivers inside. When properly amped they sound really great. Except for the fact that they don't go that low. But that's expected for a short horn loaded box. Here they are:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...pse3168859.jpg
On top of them you see 2 small cabs with RCF l12-544k drivers and RCF N980 tweeters. These little cabs sound really fatastic and very clean. But i only have 3 of those and can't find the same one that i can buy so i can have 4.
What i have decided is use those 3 as monitors and buy new tops for my PA.
The 3 best options are now have are:
A used pair of RCF event 6000 cabs, a brand new pair of EV TX1152 boxes and a used pair of D.A.S audio R-215 cabs.
All 3 options come around the same price. Keep in mind that these EV's are brand new and other 2 options are used.
Now naturally i ran and compared specifications of the EV cab and the RCF cab. The rcf's sensitivity is 2dB lower then the EV (101 vs 103dB). But the RCF cab can handle 1000W RMS and the EV can handle 500w RMS. Witch in the end comes down to the similar peak output (both are rated at 133dB). But from 2 totally different boxes. Talking about practicality and the fact that the EV cab is new i'd rather take it over the RCF 6000. But i'm afraid that the event 6000 might sound better... because of the simple fact that it's a fantastic 2x15 + 8 + tweeter cab. So we are talking about a high quality 3-way box vs a decent 2-way with a single 15. The specs say they should get equally loud at peak SPL witch i'm not sure should i believe.
What do you think about these options. Will the RCF cab sound better, is it true that it can't get louder then the small EV cab?
And then we hit the third option. A guy here is selling 2 used cabs from D.A.S audio. Witch on a paper is a 1000w RMS cab with decent sensitivity and should get up to 136dB max. But i have no experience with these cabs and am skeptical because they are a dual 15 cab. From my experience with yamaha c215v dual 15 cabs tend to sound muddy, with lack of highs.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...pse3168859.jpg
On top of them you see 2 small cabs with RCF l12-544k drivers and RCF N980 tweeters. These little cabs sound really fatastic and very clean. But i only have 3 of those and can't find the same one that i can buy so i can have 4.
What i have decided is use those 3 as monitors and buy new tops for my PA.
The 3 best options are now have are:
A used pair of RCF event 6000 cabs, a brand new pair of EV TX1152 boxes and a used pair of D.A.S audio R-215 cabs.
All 3 options come around the same price. Keep in mind that these EV's are brand new and other 2 options are used.
Now naturally i ran and compared specifications of the EV cab and the RCF cab. The rcf's sensitivity is 2dB lower then the EV (101 vs 103dB). But the RCF cab can handle 1000W RMS and the EV can handle 500w RMS. Witch in the end comes down to the similar peak output (both are rated at 133dB). But from 2 totally different boxes. Talking about practicality and the fact that the EV cab is new i'd rather take it over the RCF 6000. But i'm afraid that the event 6000 might sound better... because of the simple fact that it's a fantastic 2x15 + 8 + tweeter cab. So we are talking about a high quality 3-way box vs a decent 2-way with a single 15. The specs say they should get equally loud at peak SPL witch i'm not sure should i believe.
What do you think about these options. Will the RCF cab sound better, is it true that it can't get louder then the small EV cab?
And then we hit the third option. A guy here is selling 2 used cabs from D.A.S audio. Witch on a paper is a 1000w RMS cab with decent sensitivity and should get up to 136dB max. But i have no experience with these cabs and am skeptical because they are a dual 15 cab. From my experience with yamaha c215v dual 15 cabs tend to sound muddy, with lack of highs.
I would forget about the EV, when you dig a little deeper into the specs (sensitivty specs are misleading at best) it's really not a match for either the RCF or the DAS. It's like you're saying, I want a second hand Mercedes sedan or a second hand BMW sedan or this brand new Fiat Punto.
The DAS might struggle with the highest frequencies (say over 15 kHz), but I expect it to sound better below that than the EV.
The RCF is freaking heavy and tall but I would expect it to sound better than the EV over it's entire frequency range.
The EV is outclassed simply because it's in a lower (price) class.
Johan
The DAS might struggle with the highest frequencies (say over 15 kHz), but I expect it to sound better below that than the EV.
The RCF is freaking heavy and tall but I would expect it to sound better than the EV over it's entire frequency range.
The EV is outclassed simply because it's in a lower (price) class.
Johan
Yeah i see. That's what i was expecting anyway.
I mean honestly the RCF sounds like the best option here. When amped well, 2 of them would be the perfect match for my horn loaded 18's. Yes i know they are a damn closet and they are heavey as hell but then again... a 3 way cab with great drivers. This can't be bad. And considering how much power i'm getting once i buy 2 of them i'm done unless i decide to get 4 more subs. And with the EV the reality is, i'd need to get 2 more with time.
Now the only dilemma comes with the D.A.S cab. I amd afraid about it's sound because it's a dual 15 but then again. I'm comparing it to the yamaha dual 15 witch has cheep eminence inside AND a tweeter not powerfull enough. They put the same tweeter in the c115v and the c215v. As a result the c215v has more mid witch in the end leads to a badly balanced muddy sounding cab terrible for vocals. At least from my experience. But then again that yamaha is not expensive and is not a bad buy because of the cheap price.
The D.A.S cab on the other hand has a 150w 2 inch titanium monster on top of those 2 15's. But my main fear is, i know nothing about these cabs, have never heard of the company and that's why i'm skeptical. An opinion from someone who worked with these cabs would mean a lot to me. And do you think they would pair well with rcf 18 horns? I'd buy the RCF right away because i know 100% it's a porche of a box but have never driven or seen the D.A.S being driven. Witch does not mean it's not a fantastic speaker. And the D.A.S is smaller and lighter.
I mean honestly the RCF sounds like the best option here. When amped well, 2 of them would be the perfect match for my horn loaded 18's. Yes i know they are a damn closet and they are heavey as hell but then again... a 3 way cab with great drivers. This can't be bad. And considering how much power i'm getting once i buy 2 of them i'm done unless i decide to get 4 more subs. And with the EV the reality is, i'd need to get 2 more with time.
Now the only dilemma comes with the D.A.S cab. I amd afraid about it's sound because it's a dual 15 but then again. I'm comparing it to the yamaha dual 15 witch has cheep eminence inside AND a tweeter not powerfull enough. They put the same tweeter in the c115v and the c215v. As a result the c215v has more mid witch in the end leads to a badly balanced muddy sounding cab terrible for vocals. At least from my experience. But then again that yamaha is not expensive and is not a bad buy because of the cheap price.
The D.A.S cab on the other hand has a 150w 2 inch titanium monster on top of those 2 15's. But my main fear is, i know nothing about these cabs, have never heard of the company and that's why i'm skeptical. An opinion from someone who worked with these cabs would mean a lot to me. And do you think they would pair well with rcf 18 horns? I'd buy the RCF right away because i know 100% it's a porche of a box but have never driven or seen the D.A.S being driven. Witch does not mean it's not a fantastic speaker. And the D.A.S is smaller and lighter.
DAS is solid. I (ab)used a pair of their old RF12 tops for ages before dropping them shifted the magnets.
I rather liked them, and still might look into getting some more of those. I e-mailed their customer support asking if they'd recommend bi-amping them, and what crossover slopes they might suggest. They came back to me the next day, saying that, while they haven't done an active crossover for them, here's a bunch of EQ settings to get nice HF out of the horn.
Hope this helps
Chris
I rather liked them, and still might look into getting some more of those. I e-mailed their customer support asking if they'd recommend bi-amping them, and what crossover slopes they might suggest. They came back to me the next day, saying that, while they haven't done an active crossover for them, here's a bunch of EQ settings to get nice HF out of the horn.
Hope this helps
Chris
Nice. Sure it helps. I'm really in quiet a dilemma now. Two of those R-215's on paper will push harder then RCF event 6000's when amped properly. Whatever i heard about them, was good. They are smaller and more practical then RCF's and people who worked with them tell me they are some damn good boxes. If anyone else has an opinion on these i'd love to hear it.
Btw, you also think comparing these R-215 with EV tx1152 is a nonsense?
Btw, you also think comparing these R-215 with EV tx1152 is a nonsense?
That's right, it's a 1.5. I have no idea does it have enough highs to match it's mids. That's really the only problem here. With the RCF i know i'm good but it's damn huge and heavey. The DAS is more practical, should be louder then the rcf but i have no idea how it sounds and can it match the RCF.
Any 15" cab with a 1" exit CD is a compromized design, the CD can't go low enough to cross to the 15 before it gets into cone breakup and beaming. That said these Yamaha Club speakers are well renouned as good performers.. they just need some EQ. This is true of any passive speakers system of course, EQ and delay are needed to flatten and time align the drivers and any quality PA system should include a DSP processor to take care of that.
I did some further digging on those DAS speakers and can confirm the specs on the compression driver so it looks like these are the real deal. Biamped with some DSP processing these things will totally blow away the EVs.. not even close. You would need 4 of the EVs to get similar output to the RCF or DAS dual 15 cabs and even then it won't sound as good as the bigger cabs.
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Take a look at the D.A.S ND-10 tweeter. That exact one is in these boxes. Seems to be quiet a monster.
ND-10 | D.A.S. Audio
The D.A.S. ND-10 is a 1.5" diameter exit Neodymium high frequency compression driver with a 100 mm (4") diameter voice coil.
So it's a 4" with a 1.5 exit?
A local club is using these boxes, i'm going to go take a listen tonight. If i like what i hear and see i'm going to see the guy selling them... they really seem to be a best buy out of all these here.
ND-10 | D.A.S. Audio
The D.A.S. ND-10 is a 1.5" diameter exit Neodymium high frequency compression driver with a 100 mm (4") diameter voice coil.
So it's a 4" with a 1.5 exit?
A local club is using these boxes, i'm going to go take a listen tonight. If i like what i hear and see i'm going to see the guy selling them... they really seem to be a best buy out of all these here.
r c f event 6k is 3 way vs two way. comparing 3 vs 2 way is comparing well designed speakers vs cheap'n'loud speakers designed 4 the teenagers bedroom. get the rcfs instantly, before other guys grab it, but check if all drivers are good since they are very old. the woofer is easy to replace l15p530, eur 200 per, but the midrange is rare l8l750 4 ohms i think, so it should better be good. go ask turbosound about the importance of a good paper midrange cone....
i have just overhauled a pair of event 4k, with improved crossover and new woofers... they sound good now..although the 6k would be more powerful...
i have just overhauled a pair of event 4k, with improved crossover and new woofers... they sound good now..although the 6k would be more powerful...
I don't know man. That's not what everyone tells me. The RCF event is a 3-way speaker but for an example it's tweeter is a lot less powerfull then the monster in this D.A.S box. So it's all relative. Thing number two is, specs say the EVENT 6000 is a less powerfull box. The peak SPL is quiet a bit lower then the DAS box. And it's so big i fear it's going to be impractical.
Basically i know the Event 6000 is a fantastic box. But from what i have heard and read this D.A.S 2-way box is also a very very high-end speaker.
Basically i know the Event 6000 is a fantastic box. But from what i have heard and read this D.A.S 2-way box is also a very very high-end speaker.
Yes i know man but these rules are never the only right conclusion.
For an example a 12inch driver is more agile and should do vocal job cleaner then a 15 inch driver. That doesn't mean there isn't a good 15 inch cab sounding cleaner in the vocal range then another not that good 12' inch cab.
I just went to a local club using these D.A.S 2x15 boxes and was suprised by the amount of clarity and highs that are present in the overall picture they have. I felt a slight need to cut a bit off some frequencies between 1.5 and 4 khz, but who knows how are they eq-d and are they set up well. They are running dual 18's below and i heard no symptoms of mud or lack of clarity. I was really suprised by what i heard. Considering how powerfull the tweeter inside that box is that was kind of what i expected.
Now yes i know the rcf's will probably sound a notch better. But there might not be a huge difference and with the D.A.S i get a cab much more compact and more powerfull. These D.A.S cabs have a sick max output. EV got kicked out of the game but it's a hard decision between the RCF and the D.A.S now
For an example a 12inch driver is more agile and should do vocal job cleaner then a 15 inch driver. That doesn't mean there isn't a good 15 inch cab sounding cleaner in the vocal range then another not that good 12' inch cab.
I just went to a local club using these D.A.S 2x15 boxes and was suprised by the amount of clarity and highs that are present in the overall picture they have. I felt a slight need to cut a bit off some frequencies between 1.5 and 4 khz, but who knows how are they eq-d and are they set up well. They are running dual 18's below and i heard no symptoms of mud or lack of clarity. I was really suprised by what i heard. Considering how powerfull the tweeter inside that box is that was kind of what i expected.
Now yes i know the rcf's will probably sound a notch better. But there might not be a huge difference and with the D.A.S i get a cab much more compact and more powerfull. These D.A.S cabs have a sick max output. EV got kicked out of the game but it's a hard decision between the RCF and the D.A.S now
the spanish speakers to me are questionable. They seem to not use any low pass filter for the 15s in passive mode, based on the schematic:
http://dasaudio.net/soundproducts/_files/hojastecnicas/te046-02.pdf
but in active mode they speak of some low end speaker and mid-hi section:
"the speaker forming the low end is driven fully active, while the mid/high frequency
section gets used as semi-active, since it
continues to make use of the passive filter
network. This includes compensation for
the constant directivity horn in addition to
the highpass characteristic, thus assuring
a flat and accurate response while
protecting the compression driver."
so is there any lowpass at all??
i am confused.
http://dasaudio.net/soundproducts/_files/hojastecnicas/te046-02.pdf
but in active mode they speak of some low end speaker and mid-hi section:
"the speaker forming the low end is driven fully active, while the mid/high frequency
section gets used as semi-active, since it
continues to make use of the passive filter
network. This includes compensation for
the constant directivity horn in addition to
the highpass characteristic, thus assuring
a flat and accurate response while
protecting the compression driver."
so is there any lowpass at all??
i am confused.
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