Building the Nathan 10

[JoshK]

Here is probably even better deal...

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_round_over.html

They have 1.5" for $46. MCLS is good stuff too.

 

[amiklos]

Earl and Josh, thanks. Both my Hitachi and Craftsman routers will accept 1/2 bits so I'll look to order one this week.

 

[John_E_Janowitz]

Markus

Looks good. One tip is that many of the fillers shrink even after a day. This has been a real problem for me. If anyone knows of a fast setting filler that doesn't shrink let me know. I have found that wood filler doesn't work as good as body filler. Bondo is a real pain to use, but it sets quickly and shrinkage is predictable.

We use either Marglass or Glasslite for filling any holes, gaps, etc:

http://www.evercoat.com/productDetail.aspx?pID=147

We pay about $35 a gallon i think for it. Has pretty good shelf life and if it gets stiff in the can you can soften it back up with lacquer thinner, Acetone, or MEK. Very little shrinking unless you have to put it on 1/2" or thicker and in that case you should just do multiple layers.

We then go over with one of their premium body fillers to get any small stuff out as well:
http://www.evercoat.com/productCategory.aspx?cat=2

Then for finishing use the SpotLite. This stuff will fill up tiny pin holes, heavy sanding scratches, etc
http://www.evercoat.com/productDetail.aspx?pID=5

None of it is real cheap, but their body fillers and the spot lite sand so easily you'll save yourself hours of sanding. The standard Bondo stuff will shrink, won't stick to mdf well, etc.

John

 

[gedlee]

John

Thanks - as always your expertise here is much appreciated.

Josh

Thanks - those are great prices. I have seen vast differences in the longevity of many bits and wonder if thats where the price difference comes from. If you are only doing a single enclosure no big deal, but doing a lot of them might make the higher price pay off.

 

[Ray Collins]

CMT, Freud, Whiteside are premium router bit brands and serve well in industrial applications or heavy hobby use. MLS, Grizzly etc. are fine for occasional hobby use but don't last as long(stay sharp). Also, the high end bits can and are worth sharpening.

Ray

 

[badman]

for a big takeoff

It's always good policy to run a bevel cut (45 deg) to an appropriate depth on the edge of the device requiring a roundover to reduce the amount of material the bit has to remove, with any roundover bitsize over 1/2"

 

[noah katz]

"...most any shape or form can be reproduced to tolerances often measured in the sub-micron range, repeatedly, out of nickel, copper, silver, etc.

So all this talk about how difficult making these is a bit amusing to seasoned manufacturing engineers."

OK, give us some quotes on WG's made this way.

You seem to have forgotten that a lot of the issues being discussed are rooted in cost sensitivity.

 

[gedlee]

"It's always good policy to run a bevel cut (45 deg) to an appropriate depth on the edge of the device requiring a roundover to reduce the amount of material the bit has to remove, with any roundover bitsize over 1/2"
"

Yes, admittedly this was the mistake that I made. In a hurry, I tried to hog out the whole thing at once. Too hard to handle the work etc. when that is done. John's going to do the cutting now so I don't screw up any more enclosures

 

[gedlee]

[B

OK, give us some quotes on WG's made this way.

You seem to have forgotten that a lot of the issues being discussed are rooted in cost sensitivity. [/B]

Heck yes!! If they are as low in cost as I can do then I'll buy them!!

 

[amiklos]

Re: for a big takeoff

It's always good policy to run a bevel cut (45 deg) to an appropriate depth on the edge of the device requiring a roundover to reduce the amount of material the bit has to remove, with any roundover bitsize over 1/2"

Thank you for that tip. I ordered several of the MLCS bits and hopefully your suggestions will extend their useful life. Much appreciated.

Now I just need my new table saw to arrive.

 

[markus76]

Originally posted by gedlee Yes, admittedly this was the mistake that I made. In a hurry, I tried to hog out the whole thing at once. Too hard to handle the work etc. when that is done. John's going to do the cutting now so I don't screw up any more enclosures [/B]

Hey, now that I have 2 screwed up ones, I'm ready to beta test the new enclosures cut by John. I'll pay the shipping. How about that Earl? The screwed up ones could still be of use in a multichannel setup...

Best, Markus

 

[gedlee]

Yours didn't look screwed up to me.

But here is what I will do - send me the ones that you have and I'll send you a pair from John.

 

[markus76]

First I want to see some pictures

 

[gedlee]

John promised to post some as soon as he has done a set. I will be gone on holiday for a week so I won't be able to do anything until I get back.

(To reflect on a Richard Nixon theme: Who are you guys going to beat up when I'm gone?)

 

[badman]

Yours didn't look screwed up to me.

But here is what I will do - send me the ones that you have and I'll send you a pair from John.

John promised to post some as soon as he has done a set. I will be gone on holiday for a week so I won't be able to do anything until I get back.

(To reflect on a Richard Nixon theme: Who are you guys going to beat up when I'm gone?)

Hi Earl:

It sounds like you're making efforts to make the complainant issues right, in being more flexible with replacement issues and refunds, etc. Part of the issue early on was your expectations for your customers to correct what should not have been problems in the first place. Part of why you got both barrels from so many was that you were unapologetic and unsympathetic to completely legitimate complaints, responding with egotism instead of correction.

Glad to see this change of attitude. It'd be a shame for the early clumsiness in handling these as a kit to eliminate their viability as a high-performance DIY speaker. Hopefully you can continue to reconcile your engineering skills with your fabrication and customer service skills.

Enjoy your vacation.

 

[gedlee]

Let me tell you a little story.

In Asia, where I lived most of the time in 2006 and 2007, if you take somthing back to the store and ask for a refund they go: "You want a what!?" There is no such thing as refunds or customer service or anything like that. Its becoming more western-like in this regard, but slowely.

My partner is from China. She thinks that my whole attitude and response is outrageous. But not in the same way that you guys do.

This is a major problem when Westerners deal with Asians, the expectations are not at all in synch. Of course being Western and being the customer we think that they should do it our way. But they don't think that way. They point out the high cost of doing business this way and how much it "drives up the price."

It's all a matter of your point of view.

 

[markus76]

Earl,

you're Asian and we're in Asia? Did we miss something?

I've been to Thailand lately. My wife went to a tailor to saw her a dress. She was there I think 6 times until everything was perfect. Maybe it depends on whom you're dealing with?

Have a nice vacation. Isn't it nice to know that we'll be here waiting for you?


Best, Markus

P.S. You recommend 3M 99 spray to glue in the foam plug. Is there a 99 spray? Did you mean 90?

 

[Tenson]

Let me tell you a little story. My partner is from China.

You lucky man

I was going to visit China next month, but I have to exhibit at a hi-fi show. I'll go next year I guess.

Have you seen Paul Merton's series on China? Its really quite good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4LIThTB8Ww

 

[auplater]

Thailand

When I was in Thailand consulting with GE and Thai Air, for several months back in 1989, I got several silk suits, my wife got many dresses and suits, all hand tailored to much higher degree than here in the states.

They made us come back several times for trial fittings, adjustments, that sort of thing, until we were completely satisfied. Only then did we pay them the 1200 baht or whatever it was (worked out to about $220 at the exchange rate then). This for what would have cost several thousand $$$ to make in NYC.

So, some have had different experiences than yours with the Far East culture.

As to fabricating waveguides, I'll probably order some cheapo PE guide and see what I can do to EF a negative master mandrel and then electroform an EXACT duplicate. What sort of wall thickness do you think would be good for a nickel horn? Maybe .032"? If you want to send me one of the crappy fiberglass ones that didn't turn out so good maybe I could try one of them, but I won't hold my breath.

One offs are always gonna be expensive, but making tens or hundreds of the same thing shouldn't be. Having John J. fab the panels is a step in the right direction. If you were open to having other folks with some experience help you out, you'd come out ahead. I just don't see that here, though, not with your bravado.

I'll speak from personal experience, the early stages of business ventures like this won't make you wealthy, but the word-of-mouth accolades you gain by providing a superior product and service early on will.

have a nice vacation.

John L.

 

[gedlee]

You guys were tourists. Trust me they were charging you for those services. I got to know the place well enough to learn where the really good deals were and they were usually 1/4 - 1/3 of the tourist taylors. Things always look different to tourists.

Yes, Spray 90.