In my personal experience, EQ is a big fat zero in getting sound 'correct', in the communicating with the musicians sense. Because, that type of correct sound comes about through reducing low level distortion components to inaudible levels - a lot of pro level gear has a putrid stench of this type of distortion, I run 100 miles in the other direction when I come across this type of sound ...
\It is always interesting where fellowSorry if i was mumbling, main preference IS not electronic music but WAS 25 years ago. I still dont really agree that solid state blockbusters are the best for the electronic music I listen to. For party situations I sometimes use pp pentodes or a 30W power jfet circlotron, high power ss just dont do it for me anymore....but then again, I haven't tried everything.
As to contributing to the Ariel replacement I would really consider a short front horn on the Altec 416/515 since I think it would help the dynamic consistency I mentioned before. If you look at post #10590 you can see the starting point of my project where I make use of both the floor and side wall images for the bass system. The horn contour is JMLC but with no back roll. The choice is based on the fact that I do have 4 GPA 416-16B, a room that a little bit narrower than I would like it to be and the dynamic consistency together with the mid/top horn. I will cross over probably an octave lower than Lynn but I still think it is a viable option even for a freestanding speaker with a compression driver top, sort of an A7 done for home use
What I am going to try also is to go for active XOs again, done it before but always slipped back to passive in the end. It is so convenient when sorting out the system and it would be nice be able to keep it that way. Anything you are considering at all Lynn?
/Anders
diy ers follow their own path, while cognisant of the core project. Once you start to deviate i.e AZ425 horn or 745 CD it really is outside the remit. I am glad you have asked for Lynns remit, but a previous recent post I thought said the most part of it. I could start a different speaker project tomorrow. I have passed the stage where I personally do not use active cross over although it is a good tool to establish early performance.
Then you and I posting our comments is completely pointless - technical reasons don't matter.
You keep getting all twisted up in your beliefs.
I am not sure how the autoformers are connected, bur if it isolates driver live and return terminals from the amp, then that is a plus.
I further looked at the crossover design on page 731 which poped up in a Google, just looking at the way the autoformer is connected, my guess would be impedance phase effecting sound, but it is hard to say without the actual data.
In my own opinion, caps in series with high current is a no no unless it is in the very high frequency range like above 8KHz. Otherwise the cap design is going to be critical, and you need to test performance with such current surges to see how things go. Even the parallel circuit on that page really needs more detailed assessment how the currents will flow. Textbook design considerations will not give you the performance you are looking for.
Paul Klipch used autoformers in his horns; and I doubt, as a manufacturer, that he was looking for a way to increase costs.
However, if I recall correctly, he utilized the inductance of the autoformer coils for the inductance in the crossover, or at least as a portion of the required inductance, as well as using them for attenuation.
However, if I recall correctly, he utilized the inductance of the autoformer coils for the inductance in the crossover, or at least as a portion of the required inductance, as well as using them for attenuation.
It is also necessary to understand that impedance phase of cores inductors may not be the same as air core inductors. I think the only cored inductor I cam across that had similar impedance to air core inductors was a Duelund inductor. LC filters are a no no for me in general, unless you know what you are doing with the series resistance of the inductor.
It might be possible to fine tune an autoformer to a specific design I suppose.
It might be possible to fine tune an autoformer to a specific design I suppose.
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Trouble is, Pano, you believe in good soundin' sound - that's a major flaw, right there ...
Pano wants his cake and to eat it too. He wants to be technical and quote all the technical reasons why and why not to do something, but then he believes that technical aspects don't matter and that it's all "how it sounds to me." The two positions are just not compatible. Either data matters or it doesn't, which is it?
Oh yea, I know ... "If I agree with the data, then its valid. If I don't, then it doesn't matter." or maybe "We all know that measurements and theory don't correlate with what we hear!"
Actually, it is not easy to get the electronics music right either. Sometimes I put on these kinds do music for a sanity check just to make sure.
I haven't been in this game for very long, but I'm still waiting to experience a case where measurements of what I am hearing are not correlating with what I hear. Nothing so far.
P.S. Confirmation bias in two directions? Sure, maybe, but I'm not seeing anyone coming to the "don't correlate with what we hear" opinion free of that effect.
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Apparently that is your strange interpretation of my position. But it's wrong. Nothing new there.
Lynn,
When you add a "real" "big" woofer to your speaker, will you put it under the midbass like Gary Dahl has done(JMLC+TD15M+TD18H stack), or will you add a separate side "real" "big" woofer cabinet? i.e. Is it better to push the center of the JMLC above ear level when adding a woofer, or better to put the woofer to the side of the midbass(GP416 or TD15M) to maintain the center of the JMLC at ear level?
Adding a woofer allows using a modest volume sealed cabinet for the midbass, which is often the best sounding design solution.
When you add a "real" "big" woofer to your speaker, will you put it under the midbass like Gary Dahl has done(JMLC+TD15M+TD18H stack), or will you add a separate side "real" "big" woofer cabinet? i.e. Is it better to push the center of the JMLC above ear level when adding a woofer, or better to put the woofer to the side of the midbass(GP416 or TD15M) to maintain the center of the JMLC at ear level?
Adding a woofer allows using a modest volume sealed cabinet for the midbass, which is often the best sounding design solution.
Attachments
The limitation I see with what is going on is using old thought process and trying to get better results from it. Simply does not happen in the technology world. Generally, it is necessary to see what hype manufacturers are saying, generally why it works the way they do has a good reason behind it even though it may not be what we look for, but when you have a technical reason why, then you know how to technically avoid that kind of design. When we can only allocate our decision to listening, then you get a very unreliable design process.
Respectfully, I do not think that the matter can be simplified this way, down to a clear-cut "either / or" proposition.
The way I understand it, in science, if the data arising from some technical measurement (which implies an underlying theory that dictates what to measure - let's take THD as an example) agrees with experimental evidence (the "how it sounds to me"), then I may conclude that such measurement is relevant and that my theory of WHY it sounds in a certain way is correct. If, OTOH, some other data resulting from a different measurement does not correlate with the same experimental evidence, then it is completely reasonable to infer that perhaps I may not have been measuring the right thing (and hence that my theoretical assumption as to which technical parameters determine "how it sounds" are incomplete or just wrong).
Marco
I actually had a situation where a company did a different layout of a board with the same circuit design. It was obviouse to me that the sound was not right. So I did a THD between the two configurations which showed distinct increase of THD in certain frequency range as evidence the layout was way off. After another layout, the problem was corrected.