The Fluke warranty is quite good but ONLY applies to purchases made from an authorized fluke retailer. You MUST provide proof of purchase during warranty service otherwise they will not accept your warranty repair. Used, eBay and grey market purchases will not be accepted. They will flat out reject your warranty request without a proof of purchase. I know from experience. FYI, Amazon user to be a grey market seller, not sure if they still are.
As for the increased budget, this changes things a LOT!
The Fluke 17x range aren't very well spec'd for audio work. The AC voltage accuracy specifications only go up to 1kHz (and in the 500Hz to 1kHz range the accuracy has ALREADY dropped to 2%+/-3counts). This isn't a game changer but it IS something to think about. It has more mid-range spec's so you could do better very easily with a few other companies.
There are a variety of other options:
- A used 87V (yeah no warranty but these things are tanks)
- A Brymen B869S - This is thing is one of the BEST meters on the market period. It has a higher safety rating than any Fluke right now (CatIV 1kV) a 500,000 count DCV mode and 50,000 count other modes, higher accuracy, ACV to 100Khz, etc.
- One of the mid-range Agilent/Keysight meters like the U1242B
- One of the other mid-range Brymen or Greenlee meters.
- A quality mid-range meter paired up with a quality real LCR like the Der EE DE-5000 (around $90-120 on ebay depending on options).
- More than one mid quality meter for doing simulatneous measurements
- A combination of something above plus a data logging capable meter (the brymen is but the data cable is optional )
Last edited:
I worked at Motorola for 41 years. 10 years in the test equipment lab (1975 - 1984). I was an advanced development RF engineer doing two way radio and cell phone circuitry for the past 30 years. I had about $250K worth of equipment on my desk when I left, and access to a multi million $$$$ lab, so I am fully aware of just about anything HP / Agilent / Keysight (different names for the same company), Fluke, Tektronix, Siemens and Rohde and Schwarz made for RF work. There are some advantages in purchasing good equipment and reasons where it is necessary. Motorola had a big fat budget for test equipment, and even got HP to make specialized equipment just for us.
I, and Tubelab however, do not have such a budget. Fortunately I can fix broken test equipment, and have a good collection of test equipment that Motorola sold as scrap, which I have fixed up, as well as stuff I bought at hamfests and flea markets.
I am in the process of moving, so all my equipment is stacked up right next to this computer. I have a Tek 2232 DSO (bought dead for $100 10 years ago), a Tek 2335 scope ($40 dead from a flea market) both now operational. About a year ago I bought a Chinese made Rigol DSO for $900. It features an Ethernet connection and Labview drivers for future use making Tubelab instructional videos. There are "upgrades" available on the web for some Rigol scopes. The Rigol scope cost me more than all of my other test equipment combined (including a 3 GHz network analyzer, and two 1 GHz HP8656A RF generators), but it has features I will use that the Teks don't have, and those justify the expense.
Do those fancy meters do anything for you that a decent cheap meter doesn't? Is your money better spent on other equipment that you will need, like a soldering iron? Only you can answer these questions. I being an engineer, would make a spreadsheet, list all the tools you may NEED for this hobby, then list the tools you may WANT, decide on a total budget, then allocate money where it is best used......but that's just me.
My 20 year old $100 soldering iron died about 2 years ago. I bought a $59 Stahl iron from Parts Express in a big hurry because it was on sale. I am still using it. It works great on tube amp PC boards, and PTP connections, but I still have my 45 year old Weller soldering gun for chassis work.
I look at a DVM like a car. You can get a Mercedes Benz, or a Honda. Both will get the job done. I have a 7 year old Honda.
I, and Tubelab however, do not have such a budget. Fortunately I can fix broken test equipment, and have a good collection of test equipment that Motorola sold as scrap, which I have fixed up, as well as stuff I bought at hamfests and flea markets.
I am in the process of moving, so all my equipment is stacked up right next to this computer. I have a Tek 2232 DSO (bought dead for $100 10 years ago), a Tek 2335 scope ($40 dead from a flea market) both now operational. About a year ago I bought a Chinese made Rigol DSO for $900. It features an Ethernet connection and Labview drivers for future use making Tubelab instructional videos. There are "upgrades" available on the web for some Rigol scopes. The Rigol scope cost me more than all of my other test equipment combined (including a 3 GHz network analyzer, and two 1 GHz HP8656A RF generators), but it has features I will use that the Teks don't have, and those justify the expense.
Do those fancy meters do anything for you that a decent cheap meter doesn't? Is your money better spent on other equipment that you will need, like a soldering iron? Only you can answer these questions. I being an engineer, would make a spreadsheet, list all the tools you may NEED for this hobby, then list the tools you may WANT, decide on a total budget, then allocate money where it is best used......but that's just me.
My 20 year old $100 soldering iron died about 2 years ago. I bought a $59 Stahl iron from Parts Express in a big hurry because it was on sale. I am still using it. It works great on tube amp PC boards, and PTP connections, but I still have my 45 year old Weller soldering gun for chassis work.
I look at a DVM like a car. You can get a Mercedes Benz, or a Honda. Both will get the job done. I have a 7 year old Honda.
Most, if not all, are rebadged Brymen. The only one's I'm not sure about are the lowest level ones, the rest though I think are. The DM-860A is the BM869, the DM-860 is the BM859, etc. I used to have a list that I made which cross-referenced which were which. Can't find it right now but if you carefully compare specs you will easily be able to spot which is which. I know the BM257 and BM857 are rebadged by Greenlee as well but forget the model numbers.
You look wrong, the big challenge of our times for the ones leading regarding multimeter constant development, is to keep their offerings compatible with latest applications.
You got a fresh RIGOL oscilloscope because it does more tricks, I got a GW Instek latest model too for the same reasons.
Today the multimeter which does not called as toy meter, is the one which is technically one step lower than what one Oscilloscope can do.
The proper practice is the DMM to be able to offer an indication of instability so to get motivated and use an Oscilloscope for in-depth analysis.
Granted there are some fancy multimeters that do some neat tricks. I am not sure what you can get for $250, and I'm not sure that someone just starting out in this hobby needs one either, but it is up to the OP.
The OP had stated that he wasn't sure that this hobby was for him, since he didn't want to spend $1000 on stuff he would never use again. My advice would be to get a usable meter that fulfils his needs, and start with an amp project, or kit that could be built with only a meter and hand tools.
Depending on the TOTAL budget for a more advanced project, or projects, most would agree that the biggest chunk should be spent on a scope. You can get a useful new Chinese scope for about $400. There are scopes out there that can be "upgraded" using software found on the web too.
I had a fancy Agilent digital meter at work with a 24 channel multiplexer on its input that would take 24 readings in about 2 seconds, and send them to my PC via GPIB for analysis. It was mandatory for the automated temp testing work I was doing on an IC development team, but overkill for home use, and about $5,000.
For all the work I did in the first 10 years of Tubelab, I used as many as 10 cheap meters at a time on an amp under development. I still use that method, but my work at Motorola had taught me the value in automated measurements, so I will look for a used meter with GPIB capability over the next few months. I can design the multiplexer myself. I don't need many of the fancy features found in some meters, since I have a scope that can do most of those tricks, or I can get the data into a PC for manipulation.
All the development and experimental work for Tubelab's first 10 years and my work for the 25 years before Tubelab all took place in a 10 X 10 foot room. I have recently moved and am now starting to build a new lab in a much bigger space. It will take some time. There will be racks of automated stuff for audio, digital, and RF work.
The OP had stated that he wasn't sure that this hobby was for him, since he didn't want to spend $1000 on stuff he would never use again. My advice would be to get a usable meter that fulfils his needs, and start with an amp project, or kit that could be built with only a meter and hand tools.
Depending on the TOTAL budget for a more advanced project, or projects, most would agree that the biggest chunk should be spent on a scope. You can get a useful new Chinese scope for about $400. There are scopes out there that can be "upgraded" using software found on the web too.
I had a fancy Agilent digital meter at work with a 24 channel multiplexer on its input that would take 24 readings in about 2 seconds, and send them to my PC via GPIB for analysis. It was mandatory for the automated temp testing work I was doing on an IC development team, but overkill for home use, and about $5,000.
For all the work I did in the first 10 years of Tubelab, I used as many as 10 cheap meters at a time on an amp under development. I still use that method, but my work at Motorola had taught me the value in automated measurements, so I will look for a used meter with GPIB capability over the next few months. I can design the multiplexer myself. I don't need many of the fancy features found in some meters, since I have a scope that can do most of those tricks, or I can get the data into a PC for manipulation.
All the development and experimental work for Tubelab's first 10 years and my work for the 25 years before Tubelab all took place in a 10 X 10 foot room. I have recently moved and am now starting to build a new lab in a much bigger space. It will take some time. There will be racks of automated stuff for audio, digital, and RF work.
Greenlee sells on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-DM-6...qid=1426881065&sr=1-1&keywords=greenlee+dm-65
This looks like a rebadged Brymen, but I can't say for sure.
http://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-DM-6...qid=1426881065&sr=1-1&keywords=greenlee+dm-65
This looks like a rebadged Brymen, but I can't say for sure.
Get a true RMS is a necessity. Any cheap one will do and you should get at least 2 or 3 more depending on your circuit.
What works very well is to clip many voltmeters to different parts of your circuit then vary the voltage and log all data. I found that for reading only DC volts of power supplies any super cheap 6$ chinese is perfect and has very little battery drain after hours left ON.
7 Function Multimeter
Your main voltmeter for ac parts of the circuit must have true RMS, and a datalog. I have a chinese one and I hate the fact that it devours batteries. Capacitors readings are also critical so you need a good one to read picofarads values on feedback cap.
What works very well is to clip many voltmeters to different parts of your circuit then vary the voltage and log all data. I found that for reading only DC volts of power supplies any super cheap 6$ chinese is perfect and has very little battery drain after hours left ON.
7 Function Multimeter
Your main voltmeter for ac parts of the circuit must have true RMS, and a datalog. I have a chinese one and I hate the fact that it devours batteries. Capacitors readings are also critical so you need a good one to read picofarads values on feedback cap.
This is the model that you may get in USA, with my blessings too.
Greenlee DM-510A-C Calibrated Digital Multimeter
I will agree on that, but partially.
In the end of the day if you totally lucking of skills and a bit of electronics theory, few good tools are unable to save your day.
???6DJ8??????????????????2U??????????? | Tik's ????
For Brymen, seller "f-t-2000" on eBay is legit (a pro seller with great feedback on various electronics forums).
I've bought mine from TME - a big vendor who should have no trouble shipping to the US. They carry the full range of Brymen products.
E.g.: BM257S BRYMEN - Digital multimeter | TME - Electronic components
www.tme.eu/en/details/bm869/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm869s/
(No need to pay a premium for Greenlee, Brymen are the same at half the cost)
What you are not aware is the warranty plan that GreenLee offer is USA for their equipment.
And therefore your suggestion has no value to Americans.
So you're speaking on behalf of all Americans? Nice to have you here, Mr. President.
Well aware of their warranty plan.
Sure, if you believe you'll manage to mess up two multimeters of this built quality (which is what it would take, as Brymens with the GreenLee badge are typically twice as expensive as the corresponding original Brymen models), GreenLee makes sense.
The DM-820A is a rebadged BM257 (or 257S, depending on their current stock). The BM257S is available for around $130 from at least one trusted vendor I know.
While the DM-830A is a rebadged BM829. The BM829 is $156.48 + shipping on TME.eu.
The major differences are dual temp capability, dBm measurements, the addition of an auto-check and MOST importantly DC+AC true RMS which reads both the DC and AC components of a voltage to give you true value. You can read DC only, AC only or DC+AC depending on what you are interested in.
On a side note, browsing through TME.eu: the BM869S (greenlee DM-860A) just had a price drop and is currently $225.64 + Shipping. The BM869S is better than the Fluke 87V is features, performance and safety. It has 500,000 count for DCV, dual temp, dual display, etc. The only differences between the BM869S and DM-860A is the green carrying case that Greenlee meters come with and the warranty duration. I can fully understand if the warranty is something you are interested in, but keep in mind even Fluke's lifetime warranty is only good for 8 years after the product has been EOL'd. This is why older 87I and 87III are no longer covered under warranty.
Fluke!
if you are looking for a real GOOD multimeter just get a FLUKE!!! get the 179 or if you want the top one, get the 87v. here is the 179:ROBOT WARNING - at the Test Equipment Depot
if you are looking for a real GOOD multimeter just get a FLUKE!!! get the 179 or if you want the top one, get the 87v. here is the 179:ROBOT WARNING - at the Test Equipment Depot
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.