Hello,
I am about to build a Tube amp and need to add a good multimeter to my tool kit.
The comparative reviews that I have found are over 5 years old. So that is kinda tough. I have roughly a $100 budget. I want one adequate for this sort of work, plus basic working around the house. Obviously safety is my top priority.
Currently I am considering the UEI DM393.
The ex505 is another option but did not review favorable 5 years ago.
Fluke 117 seems potentially too limited? and the 177 is too expensive.
Then a cheaper one is the UTI UT61E in the $50 range.
What are your thoughts / recommendations.
I am about to build a Tube amp and need to add a good multimeter to my tool kit.
The comparative reviews that I have found are over 5 years old. So that is kinda tough. I have roughly a $100 budget. I want one adequate for this sort of work, plus basic working around the house. Obviously safety is my top priority.
Currently I am considering the UEI DM393.
The ex505 is another option but did not review favorable 5 years ago.
Fluke 117 seems potentially too limited? and the 177 is too expensive.
Then a cheaper one is the UTI UT61E in the $50 range.
What are your thoughts / recommendations.
I use an Extech 22-816. It is accurate and reliable, discontinued, but Extech brand is a good value.
Extech Instruments - MultiMeters - Digital MultiMeters
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/66679-digital-multimeter-extech.html
Extech Instruments - MultiMeters - Digital MultiMeters
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/66679-digital-multimeter-extech.html
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and mine is a bit different.
You are going to use a digital meter to measure DC voltages from a few mV to say 600 volts. My biggest power supply goes to 650 volts so I look for some meters that go to 1000 DC volts. You are going to measure resistance, and AC voltage in the range of 1 volt or so, to 400 volts or so.
Just about any digital meter made can make these measurements. They are all accurate to within 1% or so, although an expensive meter may be considerably better than this, tube circuits are not. Most digital meters will die, or maybe even explode, if you accidentally try to measure the resistance of a 240 volt AC outlet, so what makes a $200 meter so much better than a $5 meter? RF immunity was mentioned, but there should be no strong RF fields in a tube amp. Spending $$$ is not a guarantee of good RF immunity. I worked in the Motorola plant where Nextel phones were designed and made, and a TDMA cell phone would drive some of the ultra expensive HP / Agilent equipment nuts.
I prefer to minimize the risk of accidental electrical shock created by poking around inside a live amplifier by connecting multiple low cost meters to the amp before powering it up, then adjusting bias with one hand on the screwdriver. See this web page. The two meters on the left are from Jameco, they were about $20 each. The rest are from Harbor Freight. I got them with a 20% off coupon for $3 each! Total budget, $52 for 6 meters.
Setting the Bias | Tubelab
I have several cheap DVMs that I use for automotive and general electronics. They have semi-accurate Capacitance/Inductance and low frequency measuring capabilities. Accurate enough for most measurements I do. One I got at Frys, a couple were cheap Harbor Freight specials. It was good to have 3 DVMs when I build my Pass F5 amp, as you need to monitor three low DC voltages. Cheap DVMs worked well there.
For tube audio and radio, I broke down and bought a decent Fluke, model 115. I had a cheaper (Extech?) DVM blow up when I was trying to measure 450 volts (it was rated at 500). I heard a loud buzz, then a bang. Melted internal switches, smoke poured out. Scared the hell out of me.
The Fluke has never failed me. It is well insulated and the probes are of good quality. I added insulated sleeves for the tips, and got the 'grabber probes'. Found a high voltage probe and an RF probe from Fluke on eBay used. None of it was cheap. Think of yourself here, you are working with 400 volts +.
Sort of like hand tools. I have a bunch of cheap Harbor Freight wrenches for household. But, when I am working on my old car, I use the good stuff. Too easy to screw up a bolt or nut that you may not be able to replace.
For tube audio and radio, I broke down and bought a decent Fluke, model 115. I had a cheaper (Extech?) DVM blow up when I was trying to measure 450 volts (it was rated at 500). I heard a loud buzz, then a bang. Melted internal switches, smoke poured out. Scared the hell out of me.
The Fluke has never failed me. It is well insulated and the probes are of good quality. I added insulated sleeves for the tips, and got the 'grabber probes'. Found a high voltage probe and an RF probe from Fluke on eBay used. None of it was cheap. Think of yourself here, you are working with 400 volts +.
Sort of like hand tools. I have a bunch of cheap Harbor Freight wrenches for household. But, when I am working on my old car, I use the good stuff. Too easy to screw up a bolt or nut that you may not be able to replace.
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Well, I'm the guy who tells people "Only a poor craftsman blames his tools.", and "Over half a century or more, there have been very few occasions when I thought the tool I was using was too good for the task.".
. . . But . . .
I tend to agree with "tubelab". I probably have half a dozen dirt-cheap meters floating around the house, cars, garage, workshop, etc. A couple of them are actually the no-charge giveaways that Harbor Freight features every few months, to anybody who comes in and buys something. For the great majority of applications, these cheap tools are adequate. They can tell me if mains voltage is somewhere close to spec, if there's enough headroom across the series regulator to make a stiff supply rail, whether a transistor has enough B-E voltage to turn on (or if the collector is being pulled below the base, into saturation), etc. Let's face it - very few circuit voltages, either power or signal, are critical to tighter than 5% or so.
And, like tubelab does, having a few meters connected when you throw the power switch from across the room can prevent you from bouncing across the floor on your buttocks, in a decidedly non-professional manner. (And besides, there has always been one or two neighbors or co-workers whom I suspect would like to have the opportunity to buy drinks for my widow, or attempt to comfort her in other ways I wouldn't approve of.)
Now, I DO have a FLUKE 77 that comes out when thee is a valid requirement, or I just need the personal assurance, to make a measurement as accurately and repeatably as I'm capable of. But you can go a LONG WAYS in hobby electronics before an instrument of that capability is truly required.
Dale
Yeah, Brymen is mainly sold under other names in the USA but you can find outside sellers that will sell to you. TME.eu is one big one, I know a seller on ebay VERY well (from EEVBlog actually) that sells the BM257S. He can likely source most other Brymen stuff as well (though possibly a bit more than the price at TME.eu but shipping is cheaper and service is second to none).
Most, if not all, Greenlee's are rebadged Brymens. The Extech MM series are Brymen (everything else is crap CEM China), some Amprobe's are rebadged Brymen, etc.
Because 1) industrial electricians have very different needs from people working with electronics and 2) Fluke while VERY reliable is not always the best value. Some other brands lacking the fluke name give much higher value or performance than fluke can in most of its meters. Brymen is top notch and highly respected, same with Agilent/Keysight. All three (Fluke, Brymen, Agilent/Keysight) make top class highly safe meters.
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DVMs
I have no doubt they make good equipment. But, why buy something that isn't distributed in the US, or is OEMed by a small company? Support, parts, etc. could be an issue. Assume the mentioned DVMs are all similar in quality and close in price. Even Frys carries Fluke accessaries. Lots of used Fluke stuff on eBay.
It isn't really worth debating, get what you want. I am sure any higher end DVM would work fine and be safe.
I have no doubt they make good equipment. But, why buy something that isn't distributed in the US, or is OEMed by a small company? Support, parts, etc. could be an issue. Assume the mentioned DVMs are all similar in quality and close in price. Even Frys carries Fluke accessaries. Lots of used Fluke stuff on eBay.
It isn't really worth debating, get what you want. I am sure any higher end DVM would work fine and be safe.
I agree with tubelab and dchisholm.
Get 'a few' cheap meters and then go to eBay and buy a selection of leads with grabber clips or alligator clips to fit your meters.
Clip on the leads, sit back and flip the switch....no more poking around in chassis for me!
I have a 'few' meters - handheld 'no names' and HP bench meters (3435A) and they all meet my requirements.
My latest purchase was a UNI-T UT139C (eBay,under $50 shipped from China) and it seems to work fine - though I prefer meters with a separate ON-OFF button.
If you can find one cheap at a hamfest/swapmeet/CL listing, a 'needle' meter (VTVM preferably) can be handy for troubleshooting tremolo circuits and intermittent problems, and is also a lot quicker for 'what's hot' testing than a digital meter.
Get 'a few' cheap meters and then go to eBay and buy a selection of leads with grabber clips or alligator clips to fit your meters.
Clip on the leads, sit back and flip the switch....no more poking around in chassis for me!
I have a 'few' meters - handheld 'no names' and HP bench meters (3435A) and they all meet my requirements.
My latest purchase was a UNI-T UT139C (eBay,under $50 shipped from China) and it seems to work fine - though I prefer meters with a separate ON-OFF button.
If you can find one cheap at a hamfest/swapmeet/CL listing, a 'needle' meter (VTVM preferably) can be handy for troubleshooting tremolo circuits and intermittent problems, and is also a lot quicker for 'what's hot' testing than a digital meter.
Welcome in the year 2015 in which only Hioki /Japan has offerings of spare parts.
Agilent has no spare parts.
Fluke it supposed that they handle just by them self's what ever is under warranty.
And all other brands they offer a basic warranty for 2-3 years times the most.
Surface mount technology making electronics harder to repair.
And therefore there is no repair plan for such electronics.
Welcome in 2015 again.
From the other hand as American that you are, you should shown more trust at least in what is honestly stamped as UL certified.
Were you measuring the plate voltage on an operating amplifier? The plate voltage on a transformer loaded stage (output) swings to twice the B+ voltage in normal operation into a resistive load, more than twice the B+ into a reactive load like a speaker. All bets are off on a guitar amp driven to clipping into a speaker near resonance. I have seen around 2KV on an amp with a 400 volt B+.
I have been using the same Harbor Freight meters for 10 years I bought a dozen when I got them for $3 each. YES! the voltage readings can NOT BE TRUSTED once the low battery indicator comes on. Other than that they have not failed me.
I have a $70 handheld meter, and a vintage Fluke 8000. I took both (and a bunch of my other test equipment) into the cal lab at the Motorola plant where I worked and calibrated it all when I heard the lab was being shut down. I use them if I am not sure of a measurement.....that has been about 3 times in 10 years, and each time it was a stupid error on my part.
Note, you can NOT trust the AC voltage readings on these or ANY OTHER digital meter to read the signal voltage of AUDIO signals, unless the meter specs specifically state a frequency range that covers your test frequency. Some are OK at 1KHz, some are not. I use a HP 400E analog meter. It is good to 10 MHz.
If you feel good about buying a $200 meter, and have the budget, then do it. I don't so I got several cheap meters, a lot of used, broken test equipment, cheap, and fixed it up. The only place I spent good money ($900) on brand new test equipment was for a fancy DSO. A crummy scope, or even an old good one, can really fool you, especially if you don't understand how a DSO aliases. PS, I also have 3 scopes and have been known to use them all at the same time too!
Will the 115 or 117 accomplish everything that we need it to? The econo Chinese made flukes seem a little more stripped down.
The UEi dm393 has a lot of good features and supposedly has good input protection. Cat3 1000v...
I had ordered the uti61e. But I will likely return it because it's voltage rating is signifigantly lower.
I don't want to hurt myself. But I also don't want to throw a ton of money away for a super accurate professional grade item, when I am a complete amateur.
Here is why. I may not enjoy this hobby. I am wanting to try it because it does interests me. But let's say I build one amp and decide that it's not for me. I don't want to park $1k worth of tools.
Granted I can use a multimeter around the house as necessary so it is not a bad investment in and of itself. But for basic housework you don't need anything overly fancy.
Thoughts?
Lastly.
The UEi dm393 has a lot of good features and supposedly has good input protection. Cat3 1000v...
I had ordered the uti61e. But I will likely return it because it's voltage rating is signifigantly lower.
I don't want to hurt myself. But I also don't want to throw a ton of money away for a super accurate professional grade item, when I am a complete amateur.
Here is why. I may not enjoy this hobby. I am wanting to try it because it does interests me. But let's say I build one amp and decide that it's not for me. I don't want to park $1k worth of tools.
Granted I can use a multimeter around the house as necessary so it is not a bad investment in and of itself. But for basic housework you don't need anything overly fancy.
Thoughts?
Lastly.
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Tre is one interesting option, Sanwa PC5000a but to purchase somewhere in Serbia or Bosnia and Hercegovina.
Why? Because in Farnell that instruments sells for £343.62 but can be found in those countries for less than 150Euro (~ £106) !!!
I don't know how that is possible and what is the trick?!
I first thinks that was some fakes or to have some issues, but no, they works perfectly according to specification. I own it, several colleagues also have it, works like a charm! Several other users from our local forum reported to work correct for instruments purchased in different stores/countries.
Other options of course are Fluke. Robust and safe on first place, then it's precision which they keep for very long time.
Why? Because in Farnell that instruments sells for £343.62 but can be found in those countries for less than 150Euro (~ £106) !!!
I don't know how that is possible and what is the trick?!
I first thinks that was some fakes or to have some issues, but no, they works perfectly according to specification. I own it, several colleagues also have it, works like a charm! Several other users from our local forum reported to work correct for instruments purchased in different stores/countries.
Other options of course are Fluke. Robust and safe on first place, then it's precision which they keep for very long time.
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