karma said:heh i just did that last week seting up a security system in my building. took out a monitor 5 cams and the dac for the camaras.
it was the vcr had a short to ground the minute i pluged it i lost it all, good thing thay where under warranty
open the reciever remove the ducktape
Why? I know what is under it, I put it in there. This has been solved. The ducktape is just to prevent some one from ripping the cord out of the amplifier, it serves no purpose to stop electricity or any thing like that.
I just tested the DC adapter for the monitor (LCD) and it no longer works... clearly it was designed to, in the invent of malfunction (over current draw from only getting 10v) to allow grounding of the monitor in all ways, as a safety pre-caution..... However it got 115v because the 1/8th mini jack and the VGA jack aparantly share or have very near circuitry.....
I think the problem is solved, and unfortunately for the school the plug in caused what would of otherwise never happened, even with the potential there from a bad design on an amplifier.
The monitor has a three prong wall adapter.... As I was saying before this is obviously only a protection thing, in the event of a failure it can dump all it has.... but this time it dumped 115v instead of 14v at 3a .
The electricity saw the path and took it..... It took it because the 10v and high current caused a fault in the DC adapter to the monitor....
Just for fun I tested an other DC adapter for my external harddrive, not hard to do, and I got proper voltage....
Also my AC adapter for my laptop is screwed... When in use I smell fire cracker, so some thing with it is not entirely correct, you can see burn marks on the plug itself.
Think about this.... if you where to plug that samsung monitor into that socket, and then the computer into another.... BOOM blown out computer. Hell he could of just taken the monitor back to his room and blown out his computer possibly.... I know that may not for sure happen but it is more than possible.
The electricity saw the path and took it..... It took it because the 10v and high current caused a fault in the DC adapter to the monitor....
Just for fun I tested an other DC adapter for my external harddrive, not hard to do, and I got proper voltage....
Also my AC adapter for my laptop is screwed... When in use I smell fire cracker, so some thing with it is not entirely correct, you can see burn marks on the plug itself.
Think about this.... if you where to plug that samsung monitor into that socket, and then the computer into another.... BOOM blown out computer. Hell he could of just taken the monitor back to his room and blown out his computer possibly.... I know that may not for sure happen but it is more than possible.
Fuses? Heh smoked rolled out of it! The grounding worked so good it picked up my 115v causing fuses, smoke, and every thing, because of the bad diode (most likely) from the bad AC recepticle that let er rip!
Any how I feel better now that I can prove the school's faulty AC recepticle caused this incident. I would not make them pay for any thing I faked my way into, out of, what ever. I am going to make a chassis ground on my amplifier now... Not just the fake ground. I have to bust out solder etc but I will do it before it gets used again.
Just so you know Rotel is the one who designed an amplifier with a hot chassis (the original plug was universal so at any one time there was a path, even though it was a resistor, to the chassis from possible hot side, I guess they never figured in laptops and LCD monitors).
Any how I feel better now that I can prove the school's faulty AC recepticle caused this incident. I would not make them pay for any thing I faked my way into, out of, what ever. I am going to make a chassis ground on my amplifier now... Not just the fake ground. I have to bust out solder etc but I will do it before it gets used again.
Just so you know Rotel is the one who designed an amplifier with a hot chassis (the original plug was universal so at any one time there was a path, even though it was a resistor, to the chassis from possible hot side, I guess they never figured in laptops and LCD monitors).
If the monitor and the laptop were both plugged in, and working happily BEFORE the connection to the amplifier was made... than how could the monitor be at fault? That would prove that the connector metal on the monitor was grounded; as it should be.
Something in the amp was/is wrong. I have yet to hear the words: LINE, NEUTRAL etc...
Your laptop is not going to "die". If it were, it would have done so that very moment.
All the monitor needs is a new signal cord. That could come from any old dead monitor.
Something does NOT add up here.
Something in the amp was/is wrong. I have yet to hear the words: LINE, NEUTRAL etc...
Your laptop is not going to "die". If it were, it would have done so that very moment.
All the monitor needs is a new signal cord. That could come from any old dead monitor.
Something does NOT add up here.
The LCD did not overcurrent from only 10 volts. I doubt that it has any function with only 10v input. The outlet probably reads that because something has blown out.
Alright heres how it sounds. The laptop and the LCD were plugged in and wired correctly, sharing the same chassis/signal ground. The amp is wired incorrectly and the chassis is at 115v potential. You go to plug in the 1/8" jack and *poof*. The jack melts along with the grounds in the laptop and LCD power supply, (and possibly something in the outlet) then the breaker pops.
Alright heres how it sounds. The laptop and the LCD were plugged in and wired correctly, sharing the same chassis/signal ground. The amp is wired incorrectly and the chassis is at 115v potential. You go to plug in the 1/8" jack and *poof*. The jack melts along with the grounds in the laptop and LCD power supply, (and possibly something in the outlet) then the breaker pops.
The laptop never switched which screen it was using or any thing like that.
The monitor (well DC adapter) is not at fault, it is just what failed because of the bad AC recepticle and allowed the grounding out through the laptop into it.
Just to state AGAIN this is an LCD monitor that has no actual ground from the monitor itself, only from the DC adapter, it only has neutral and positive, as it recieves DC from the DC adapter for 14v at 3a.
The hot chassis on the amplifier found ground THROUGH the monitor which would be caused by a bad diode, which would be caused by a bad AC recepticle over loading the DC adapter with current because it only gave it 10v.
My laptops DC adapter for charging still works mysteriously...
The monitor (well DC adapter) is not at fault, it is just what failed because of the bad AC recepticle and allowed the grounding out through the laptop into it.
Just to state AGAIN this is an LCD monitor that has no actual ground from the monitor itself, only from the DC adapter, it only has neutral and positive, as it recieves DC from the DC adapter for 14v at 3a.
The hot chassis on the amplifier found ground THROUGH the monitor which would be caused by a bad diode, which would be caused by a bad AC recepticle over loading the DC adapter with current because it only gave it 10v.
My laptops DC adapter for charging still works mysteriously...
astouffer said:
WRONG the breaker never popped. The AC recepticle worked on the side my stuff was plugged into, like a ******* champ. I tested the AC recepticle a few minutes after the incident more than once over spans of time. The monitor did display it's "no signal" what ever you call it, when very first plugged in, I am not sure if that stayed until the actual explosion or not. I do know my laptop never switched to it or even said "new hardware found" or any thing of the sort at any time.
AC recepticles have no reason to be damaged from 115v up to 20a...... They operate at this. Also the AC recepticle was replaced, even the school knowns it was bad.
The LCD and laptop have NO ground, only "signal ground." This means some thing had to fail in order to provide a ground to the wall, in order to ground for 115v to pass from the amplifier. Hence 10v trying to step down to 14a through a tansformer, then through diodes, to meet a certain power requirement (voltage x current) could over heat and destroy a diode which actually makes a ground possible.
With the logic of simply the current burling it's way through the DC adapters as it found a path?????? No way. This amplifier has been plugged into the laptop many times, it would of done that by now... There had to be some changed in order for this to happen, and a bad diode from over drawing current would do it, especially when it actually has a ground as opposed normally having no functioning ground.
Well it is good to figure out exactly what happened. I have to write a report and hand my stuff over to have it evaluated to see if I can get money for damage.
It will hurt me very badly if my laptop does not function until the end of semester, I am dependant on it for class as well as a lot of other things. This is my only source for audio as well.
My friends monitor was $500....
It will hurt me very badly if my laptop does not function until the end of semester, I am dependant on it for class as well as a lot of other things. This is my only source for audio as well.
My friends monitor was $500....
Banned
Joined 2002
Destroyer OS. said:
From this it sounds like you replaced a resistor to chassis with a piece of wire? - if so, that is the sole reason for this happening.
The original resistor will have been a special, high value, safety resistor, intended to bleed any static charge from the chassis to the mains - it's a standard component in double-insulated audio equipment. I've just checked on a UK satellite manual, and that uses a 10Mohm with a 1nF in parallel, both are specially rated components.
Replacing it with a wire means the chassis is directly connected to one side of the mains lead, even the neutral side would be bad, but the live side would be disasterous!. You MUST replace the resistor with the originally specified component, otherwise it's simply a death trap!.
As I said before, there's NO WAY the socket on the wall could cause damage like this - it's almost certainly the fault of a badly bodged amplifier!.
So there's no way the school can be held responsible, and in fact YOU can (and should!) be held responsible for bringing dangerous equipment on their premises!.
Destroyer OS. said:
The hospital grade outlets/$1000 power cord/power "conditioner" marketing guys love this sort of post! It's got all the right elements- damaged equipment, fire, smoke, and hasty jumping to conclusions, in short, everything they need to sell more of their overpriced junk.
You can get an outlet tester for $10 that will check the polarity and look for a ground fault to determine whether it was your home-made/modified equipment or the power outlet that was the cause of the problem. I'll bet if you complain to the university they'll send a guy with just such a tester over to check the outlet.
My money is on the outlet being OK... 99.99% of the time this sort of problem is due to faulty amateur-built equipment wiring. Just be glad it was the equipment that got fried and not you or your friend.
I_F
With the resistor in place this could of happened any how, it is a poor design. What makes you think a resistor would never ground out if it could, it only takes a split second. There had to be some thing that failed inside the monitor to allow 115v to ground out.... That is the issue I see.... which could be from a bad AC recepticle. I know the recepticle was bad I tested it with my multimeter. They know it was bad because they replaced it.
I certainly do not have enough money for a new laptop. I do not expect the school to pay for one if there is no way the AC recepticle caused a problem. However because the monitor did some thing to allow grounding, as it only has a ground for protection of some sort, the AC recepticle is the only place to point too.
This laptop has been plugged in with the amplifier and two different external harddrives several times. Never once did this problem occur until with the monitor, on that one particular AC recepticle.
Had the potential been able to take any way out possible it would of done so months ago. The LCD monitor has no actual ground except from the DC adapter to the plug, which means it is a fail safe, to dump off electricity when there is a problem. The LCD has positive and negative right, well so one of those has to become a ground, and the only way I know for that to happen is a blown diode in the DC adapter and the LCD doing what ever to dump electricity as a fail safe.
I certainly do not have enough money for a new laptop. I do not expect the school to pay for one if there is no way the AC recepticle caused a problem. However because the monitor did some thing to allow grounding, as it only has a ground for protection of some sort, the AC recepticle is the only place to point too.
This laptop has been plugged in with the amplifier and two different external harddrives several times. Never once did this problem occur until with the monitor, on that one particular AC recepticle.
Had the potential been able to take any way out possible it would of done so months ago. The LCD monitor has no actual ground except from the DC adapter to the plug, which means it is a fail safe, to dump off electricity when there is a problem. The LCD has positive and negative right, well so one of those has to become a ground, and the only way I know for that to happen is a blown diode in the DC adapter and the LCD doing what ever to dump electricity as a fail safe.
Banned
Joined 2002
Destroyer,
Here's the botton line...
You can fix your laptop... it just needs a new jack and probably some copper patched up on a PCB. I'll bet the audio output is just fine... you didn't get much of that plug into jack after all, did you?
The LCD monitor is probably fine as well. It surely needs the data cable replaced... maybe the lead from the wall wart as well... and probably needs some copper patched up too.
The monitor is probably not defective because it carried a ground to your laptop... it is probably supposed to.
It is virtually impossible to ACCIDENTALLY wire the top and bottom halves of an AC outlet/receptacle differently/incorrectly. And, the outlet, whether they replaced it or not. was NOT the cause of your meltdown. Even if the NEUTRAL and LINE connections were reversed, it should have made no difference. The school's electrician will know this too...
Having your laptop fried sucks... so get some help here. Carefully disassemble and find a replacement jack... order the puppy, and when it comes time to replace it post some pictures and get some advice.
The monitor will be trickier but still doable. Take it apart and post.
The words "neutral" and "positive" rarely belong in the same sentence. You have "hooked up to a hot amp a hundred times", you're lucky you didn't fry yourself because your laptop was hotter than a pistol everytime you hooked it up.
Your amp is fire waiting to happen. Post some model number's, someone here will have a schem and get this puppy right. You may have a bad Y cap... or a shorted trans.
Take your lumps... do the homework and fix this stuff. Otherwise buy a fire exstinguisher and wear a rubber suit!
Here's the botton line...
You can fix your laptop... it just needs a new jack and probably some copper patched up on a PCB. I'll bet the audio output is just fine... you didn't get much of that plug into jack after all, did you?
The LCD monitor is probably fine as well. It surely needs the data cable replaced... maybe the lead from the wall wart as well... and probably needs some copper patched up too.
The monitor is probably not defective because it carried a ground to your laptop... it is probably supposed to.
It is virtually impossible to ACCIDENTALLY wire the top and bottom halves of an AC outlet/receptacle differently/incorrectly. And, the outlet, whether they replaced it or not. was NOT the cause of your meltdown. Even if the NEUTRAL and LINE connections were reversed, it should have made no difference. The school's electrician will know this too...
Having your laptop fried sucks... so get some help here. Carefully disassemble and find a replacement jack... order the puppy, and when it comes time to replace it post some pictures and get some advice.
The monitor will be trickier but still doable. Take it apart and post.
The words "neutral" and "positive" rarely belong in the same sentence. You have "hooked up to a hot amp a hundred times", you're lucky you didn't fry yourself because your laptop was hotter than a pistol everytime you hooked it up.
Your amp is fire waiting to happen. Post some model number's, someone here will have a schem and get this puppy right. You may have a bad Y cap... or a shorted trans.
Take your lumps... do the homework and fix this stuff. Otherwise buy a fire exstinguisher and wear a rubber suit!
Hi Destroyer OS.,
That resistor was a few meg ohm originally. They tend to go up in value and may open. Possibly due to lightening they may flash over. This resistor was common practice in years gone by. Earlier a capacitor was used. They could go leaky which is why that practice was stopped.
It is up to you to insure your older equipment is safe. This is critical if you do any work at all to the amplifier, and specifically the primary AC circuitry. What I am saying is that as soon as you open the equipment, you are responsible for it. That is why repair shops carry insurance for liability.
You can not hold the original manufacturer liable for carrying on accepted and approved (UL) methods of wiring that equipment. If you change the wiring you have to abide by current standards published by UL.
Again, no one here can inspect your equipment. They can not see exactly what went on and so can only offer a guess as to what could have happened based on their prior experience and what you are telling us.
I wish you luck, and and very happy that you or anyone else was not injured.
-Chris
That resistor was a few meg ohm originally. They tend to go up in value and may open. Possibly due to lightening they may flash over. This resistor was common practice in years gone by. Earlier a capacitor was used. They could go leaky which is why that practice was stopped.
It is up to you to insure your older equipment is safe. This is critical if you do any work at all to the amplifier, and specifically the primary AC circuitry. What I am saying is that as soon as you open the equipment, you are responsible for it. That is why repair shops carry insurance for liability.
You can not hold the original manufacturer liable for carrying on accepted and approved (UL) methods of wiring that equipment. If you change the wiring you have to abide by current standards published by UL.
Again, no one here can inspect your equipment. They can not see exactly what went on and so can only offer a guess as to what could have happened based on their prior experience and what you are telling us.
I wish you luck, and and very happy that you or anyone else was not injured.
-Chris
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