- The high power ahndling is a benefit that lowers thermal compression to insignificant levels in a home situation.tinitus said:
- Not all Pro drivers have stiff suspensions, though some do.
- The higher Fs is a tradeoff, but you usually get the sensitivity as a result. If you want small, then use a dedicated sub driver. If you don't mind size so much, then many are possible to tune well in a ported enclosure in a variety of alignments and they will have significantly more output than typical 'phile drivers and still get an honest halfspace 40Hz -3dB. This is usually enough for most people.
Your comments strike me as not being from actual experience.
-3dB at 30Hz isn't that hard to do with pro drivers.
I'm currently building mains with 2x18, 2x10 and a 1" + WG. The sides will be similar with 15's instead of 18's. Under 60Hz will be TH subs. Sensitivity will be 100dB or more full range. Big, yes, but smaller than my horn system and should go as loud, as clean and not sound dynamically constipated like little drivers do.
If you shop well, pro components are not that expensive, especially compared to some of the ridiculous 'phile stuff.
I'm currently building mains with 2x18, 2x10 and a 1" + WG. The sides will be similar with 15's instead of 18's. Under 60Hz will be TH subs. Sensitivity will be 100dB or more full range. Big, yes, but smaller than my horn system and should go as loud, as clean and not sound dynamically constipated like little drivers do.
If you shop well, pro components are not that expensive, especially compared to some of the ridiculous 'phile stuff.
People claim I'm over the top!! 2x18, 2x10 thats really NOT necessary in a home situation. I won't be using many 15's at all in the future, 12's work just fine. But they do need to be HP. Only pro drivers have the lower thermal compression that I find essential. Thats why I use pro. I could care less about fs - what is that anyways!?
Two ESP12's, a 15ULF sub and two 12BB subs and will get more SPL at 30 Hz (and anywhere above that!) in a home room than you could stand. There simply is no reason to go over the top on this stuff.
Two ESP12's, a 15ULF sub and two 12BB subs and will get more SPL at 30 Hz (and anywhere above that!) in a home room than you could stand. There simply is no reason to go over the top on this stuff.
There are a couple of reasons why I'm going down this path. First, I can, and excess is fun, plus it means I'll never have to upgrade it. Second, whilst it will be overkill in my current abode, by actual home (which I'm living away from for work/study reasons) is very large and all open plan living space and I based my specs on what the horn system I used to have there was used at. Lastly, I'd prefer not to have the mains ported, and the drivers selected work well sealed in modest enclosures. Somehow I'm guessing you'll likely disagree with the last pointgedlee said:
This is tame compared to the horns, and apart from the wine, women, drugs, expensive bikes and pedigree dogs, I need to spend my money on something. I have few other vices.
Hahaha, some 18"ers in a home
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117869
Days ago I removed one of the 3 (the one at the center-bottom), then arbitrarily blocked the hole... I found it sounds better this way.
Maybe one woofer per side would sound even better...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117869
Days ago I removed one of the 3 (the one at the center-bottom), then arbitrarily blocked the hole... I found it sounds better this way.
Maybe one woofer per side would sound even better...
Brett said:
The problem is that you're trading off something important in order to get the extra "overkill" output. With a WG/12 or WG/15 setup you can achieve smooth directivity horizontally and decent vertically, with the only problem being around the one crossover point. With a steep filter this can be helped a bit as well. You can even do a three-way, say 15/10/WG with the 15 and 10 spaced tight and crossed low enough to make that crosspoint a nonfactor.
But with 2 15s and 2 10s there's no way to arrange them to get smooth directivity vertically and horizontally. Suppose you do them WMTMW... when you throw the wide separation and crossovers in the mix the vertical directivity is going to be all over the place. This is something that matters. I can't see sacraficing that for unused headroom.
I could care less about vertical directivity. A 10 crossing around 1k2 will match nicely to a 90* or so WG. low Xover will be 250-300Hz and all will be digital and steep. I have already built mockups in rough test boxes and it works well.
Try the second link in my earlier post as well as Drew Daniels comments in the first one.
Try the second link in my earlier post as well as Drew Daniels comments in the first one.
How would the JBL 226H 15" woofer go crossed at 800hz with the JBL 2426H with .JBL 2370A Horn flare crossed at 8000khz with the Visaton TL 16 H
The 2226 is an excellent driver (I use the older 2225), but I'm not sure you're going to get a good xover at 800 as the 2370 is a horrible sounding flare when used at home and it won't work well that low. JBL have moved away from it in their better lines. I'll give you a 2370 (PAudio copy but indistinguishable from the original dimensionally) for postage if you want to try for yourself. As an FYI, there's a pair of NIB 2226 on ebay presently from a seller I have dealt with many times and is good.
I would avoid a mid horn altogether and just use a HE direct radiator like my JBLs.warnsey said:
Read the links I posted above especially the Daniel's system and Bouskas Oblate in Oak thread.
Alternatively a cone driver in a flare like Adrian Mack's conical is easy and cheap, but will take some iterations to get right. I'd also probably start with a better driver them the A6.
http://www.geocities.com/adrian_mack/homepage.html
Then I'd try a DDS ENG 1-90 Pro or an 18Sound XT1086 with a B&C DE250 or a Beyma CP380M/385.
I have accounts and can source most Pro drivers in Oz at good prices. PM me if interested.
Brett said:
You quite wrong, none of my current designs are ported and I don't use them in any of my rooms anymore. When multiple subs are used the closed box makes a lot of sense.
This is tame compared to the horns, and apart from the wine, women, drugs, expensive bikes and pedigree dogs, I need to spend my money on something. I have few other vices.
Its quite a different stroy to spend money when its not necessary "because you can". I'm just saying that its not necessary. Spend more on women and less on audio - thats my motto!
Brett said:
Curious - your using my waveguides but you recommend something else?
I'd agree with omitting the mid-horn. The problem is size - the size has to double (in each direction so that is an 8 fold increase in volume!) for each octave lower. Below about 1 kHz this just becomes untenable. Using a horn below the size at which it controls directivity means it just doesn't work - so why do it?
>>> So from this, am I now correct in assuming that my hope of using a high efficiency 12" woofer, front horn loaded mid range and tweeter using pro compression drivers isn't going to be an easy route to follow?
LOL! Besides choosing drivers that work well together i feel the crossover will be a challenge. Getting this to sound good for a party may be easy but getting it to sound good in your home may be difficult. I have been thinking about speakers like this for a while now because they would be highly efficient and something different to build and listen to instead of fullrange drivers. I love the fullrange driver + super tweeter + subwoofer designs because they are easy to build without much of the crossover complexity. Great sound can be had by choosing a nice fullranger and rolling in a sub and tweeter. I've gotten so accustomed to this that designing a typical two-way crossover makes my head hurt. I'm sure i will purchase a pair of compression tweeters and pro woofers just to play but in the end i wonder if i would end up with anything special or even worthwhile for critical listening - which i enjoy doing with fullrangers. The key is probably in the crossover. Every time i begin thinking about designing a speaker using compression driver and pro woofer i ultimately ask myself if it will all be worth it in the end. I know it will be loud. I know it will be dynamic and i know it will be impressive at first. But then I wonder how often i will listen to these speakers, how liquid the treble will be, how realistic the mid will be and how detailed the bass will be and if i will end up using them just for parties outside in the back yard.
Sorry for the ramble. I just woke up.
Peace,
Godzilla
LOL! Besides choosing drivers that work well together i feel the crossover will be a challenge. Getting this to sound good for a party may be easy but getting it to sound good in your home may be difficult. I have been thinking about speakers like this for a while now because they would be highly efficient and something different to build and listen to instead of fullrange drivers. I love the fullrange driver + super tweeter + subwoofer designs because they are easy to build without much of the crossover complexity. Great sound can be had by choosing a nice fullranger and rolling in a sub and tweeter. I've gotten so accustomed to this that designing a typical two-way crossover makes my head hurt. I'm sure i will purchase a pair of compression tweeters and pro woofers just to play but in the end i wonder if i would end up with anything special or even worthwhile for critical listening - which i enjoy doing with fullrangers. The key is probably in the crossover. Every time i begin thinking about designing a speaker using compression driver and pro woofer i ultimately ask myself if it will all be worth it in the end. I know it will be loud. I know it will be dynamic and i know it will be impressive at first. But then I wonder how often i will listen to these speakers, how liquid the treble will be, how realistic the mid will be and how detailed the bass will be and if i will end up using them just for parties outside in the back yard.
Sorry for the ramble. I just woke up.
Peace,
Godzilla
I to have similar sentiments Godzilla. I just really wanted to try something that has a totally different sound to what i'm used to, hence why i'm keen for a compression midrange horn and horn tweeter. However, I still want good sound and it seems that the general consensus is that i'm not going to get the results i'm after with the drivers that i've selected.
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