For what it is worth
cics has found laptops are limited in what one is allowed within BIOS.
You are better off building a dedicated machine with the recommended parts. Much better off.
Remember, this is to replace a CD transport which are usually far more expensive than what will spend on the dedicated computer for the given level of quality.
I am confident that if one does what is specified they will be very pleased with what they possess.
cics has found laptops are limited in what one is allowed within BIOS.
You are better off building a dedicated machine with the recommended parts. Much better off.
Remember, this is to replace a CD transport which are usually far more expensive than what will spend on the dedicated computer for the given level of quality.
I am confident that if one does what is specified they will be very pleased with what they possess.
Re: For what it is worth
Rick,
I have no doubt that you are right. I myself will undoubtably build a dedicated machine, and wring every drop of power out of it. Very similar to not so long ago when it took some creative effort to produce an optimal gaming rig.
I just think it is fair to say that some members of the DIY community don't have the cash on hand to chase every great idea that surfaces. I think it's important to note that you can get 80% of the way to transport nirvana by making the operating system mods to an existing pc without investing in a Julia@ card or the latest MB, processor etc.
A lot of the people reading this thread have a Peter Daniel NOS Dac and an XP based PC. It is also possible to start XP using msconfig with all but the essential processes stripped out. That plus starting foobar with a bat file to suspend windows desktop and bingo, you've got a $10k transport without dropping a cent. It does not have to be all or nothing IMHO. Thanks to guys like Rick, cics and Peter we have a lot of options for great sound.
rickmcinnis said:
Rick,
I have no doubt that you are right. I myself will undoubtably build a dedicated machine, and wring every drop of power out of it. Very similar to not so long ago when it took some creative effort to produce an optimal gaming rig.
I just think it is fair to say that some members of the DIY community don't have the cash on hand to chase every great idea that surfaces. I think it's important to note that you can get 80% of the way to transport nirvana by making the operating system mods to an existing pc without investing in a Julia@ card or the latest MB, processor etc.
A lot of the people reading this thread have a Peter Daniel NOS Dac and an XP based PC. It is also possible to start XP using msconfig with all but the essential processes stripped out. That plus starting foobar with a bat file to suspend windows desktop and bingo, you've got a $10k transport without dropping a cent. It does not have to be all or nothing IMHO. Thanks to guys like Rick, cics and Peter we have a lot of options for great sound.
Actually, building a dedicated machine was relatively cheap (first version):
Motherboard: $20-40 (ebay)
CPU: $40 or less (ebay)
CPU heatsink: $20 (Freezer LP, locally)
PS: $20-30 (not the one listed, but good enough; bought locally)
RAM: $10 (locally)
HDD: $80 (2.5" WD, locally)
You may consider optical drive, the best one from Pioneer is approx $30
And that's basically all
Motherboard: $20-40 (ebay)
CPU: $40 or less (ebay)
CPU heatsink: $20 (Freezer LP, locally)
PS: $20-30 (not the one listed, but good enough; bought locally)
RAM: $10 (locally)
HDD: $80 (2.5" WD, locally)
You may consider optical drive, the best one from Pioneer is approx $30
And that's basically all
It all works out if one is in the market for a transport
I certainly hope I have not sounded like I am demanding anyone go out and build one of these things. I was mainly speaking to Peter who had expressed interest and wanted him to know that the idea had evolved dramatically since the AoCP paper of September 2007. Nonetheless, I do sincerely believe that if one does as cics recommends they will be very pleased with the result.
One can experiment with what they have but , because it has happened repeatedly over at AUDIO ASYLUM, that someone will build THEIR version of this and make a pronouncement that it is not as good "as everyone says it is" and when you ask just WHAT they were listening to it has nothing much to do with what hardware has been recommended and, in addition, they had decided not to use the recommended settings so the computer could be used for other purposes WHICH IS FINE but it has very little to do with what cics has proposed.
A cics machine is the perfect converse of a gaming computer.
Each piece has been selected. The recommended GIGABYTE MB does things that are important. Things that other MBs will not allow. And with the "special" BIOS that GIGABYTE have done for cics, the second version of which will accompany the new version of cPLAY, this makes for a system. This new combination, says cics, will allow a new, yet, lower level of power usage which makes for a better music making machine.
To repeat, the best set-up for computer based CD transport has the computer DE-tuned. Everything that can possibly be turned off has been and the speeds of the CPU and memory are set to minimum values, just enough for the software to run. Again, to minimize power usage.
Sorry to keep harping but if someone wants to hear what this can do they must do it as specified.
As Peter said, this is not expensive certainly not compared to a top end transport. One can kind of do a layaway approach and slowly collect the parts.
This new version of cPLAY just might perform better with the cheaper e5200 chip; I am surmising, though. For those not in a hurry there might be an advantage in waiting whether willingly or otherwise!
I am acting as a reporter since Peter expressed interest in this. No haranguing is intended!!!
I certainly hope I have not sounded like I am demanding anyone go out and build one of these things. I was mainly speaking to Peter who had expressed interest and wanted him to know that the idea had evolved dramatically since the AoCP paper of September 2007. Nonetheless, I do sincerely believe that if one does as cics recommends they will be very pleased with the result.
One can experiment with what they have but , because it has happened repeatedly over at AUDIO ASYLUM, that someone will build THEIR version of this and make a pronouncement that it is not as good "as everyone says it is" and when you ask just WHAT they were listening to it has nothing much to do with what hardware has been recommended and, in addition, they had decided not to use the recommended settings so the computer could be used for other purposes WHICH IS FINE but it has very little to do with what cics has proposed.
A cics machine is the perfect converse of a gaming computer.
Each piece has been selected. The recommended GIGABYTE MB does things that are important. Things that other MBs will not allow. And with the "special" BIOS that GIGABYTE have done for cics, the second version of which will accompany the new version of cPLAY, this makes for a system. This new combination, says cics, will allow a new, yet, lower level of power usage which makes for a better music making machine.
To repeat, the best set-up for computer based CD transport has the computer DE-tuned. Everything that can possibly be turned off has been and the speeds of the CPU and memory are set to minimum values, just enough for the software to run. Again, to minimize power usage.
Sorry to keep harping but if someone wants to hear what this can do they must do it as specified.
As Peter said, this is not expensive certainly not compared to a top end transport. One can kind of do a layaway approach and slowly collect the parts.
This new version of cPLAY just might perform better with the cheaper e5200 chip; I am surmising, though. For those not in a hurry there might be an advantage in waiting whether willingly or otherwise!
I am acting as a reporter since Peter expressed interest in this. No haranguing is intended!!!
Well I am using a $7 Adcom GCD-575 cd-player I bought from my landlord that lives in the garage who got it at Goodwill for $7 because the CD loading tray has it's quirks. However it actually sounds good because of all the things I did to it with left over parts from times of more money.
I am curious about the USB... I have a laptop that I use for normal use that might become not used by me perhaps I could use. Now if I could control it via like a remote and small screen like a SqueezeBox that would be amazing. I was just thinking I want the screen closed, and it in another room though.... the external HD is not exactly silent.
I am curious about the USB... I have a laptop that I use for normal use that might become not used by me perhaps I could use. Now if I could control it via like a remote and small screen like a SqueezeBox that would be amazing. I was just thinking I want the screen closed, and it in another room though.... the external HD is not exactly silent.
Re: It all works out if one is in the market for a transport
None taken! I have no doubt that following exactly the cook book laid out so generously by cics will yield great results. State of the art so to speak.
People can use this as a jumping off point to expand the body of knowledge into related areas.
I'd like specifically to encourage a community of interest around optimizing the play back of the Peter Daniel USB NOS DAC using the cics findings as a jumping off point. If so much can be done specifically tuned to commercial sound cards like the julie, think of the gains possible to this fine product that Peter has delivered.
rickmcinnis said:
None taken! I have no doubt that following exactly the cook book laid out so generously by cics will yield great results. State of the art so to speak.
People can use this as a jumping off point to expand the body of knowledge into related areas.
I'd like specifically to encourage a community of interest around optimizing the play back of the Peter Daniel USB NOS DAC using the cics findings as a jumping off point. If so much can be done specifically tuned to commercial sound cards like the julie, think of the gains possible to this fine product that Peter has delivered.
wlowes,
I could not agree more with you, I had only just built my USB DAC (on top of the spdif DAC) and thought the sound was excellent. However I then saw Peter's link to the computer threads and that has taken over. I think I will run two computer 'systems', one feeding Peters USB DAC and the other feeding my EMU 0404 sound card - both will be housed in the same PC.
What I like about all of Peter's kits is the simplicity of the designs - I know that sounds denigrating but it is meant as a compliment - there is less to interfere with the signal.
This seems to agree with cics design - get rid of everything that is not needed and could have a negative effect on the signal.
Alan
I could not agree more with you, I had only just built my USB DAC (on top of the spdif DAC) and thought the sound was excellent. However I then saw Peter's link to the computer threads and that has taken over. I think I will run two computer 'systems', one feeding Peters USB DAC and the other feeding my EMU 0404 sound card - both will be housed in the same PC.
What I like about all of Peter's kits is the simplicity of the designs - I know that sounds denigrating but it is meant as a compliment - there is less to interfere with the signal.
This seems to agree with cics design - get rid of everything that is not needed and could have a negative effect on the signal.
Alan
The problem is USB
In my experience USB is not as good as PCI.
One can use Peter's DAC. You would use the SPDIF input instead of the USB.
I suspect you will find this to sound much better than USB. Unless you like the noises which are reminiscent of a poorly pressed LP ...
When I made this change IMMEDIATELY I no longer heard any strange little gaps, no pops, no interruptions of any kind. When set up as recommended, the PCI card gets PRIORITY whereas this cannot be done with the USB. I am not attempting to explain this properly since I am incapable. But, fundamentally this is the difference.
It does not seem to be a matter of speed it is more about priorities within the machine.
I am all for trying things out and seeing what happens but at the same time when one is simply wanting a great device for listening to music why re-invent the wheel? If one has unlimited funds to try various MB's and memory your findings will be greatly appreciated but for those who want a first class transport for a reasonable amount of money there is a clear path.
In my experience USB is not as good as PCI.
One can use Peter's DAC. You would use the SPDIF input instead of the USB.
I suspect you will find this to sound much better than USB. Unless you like the noises which are reminiscent of a poorly pressed LP ...
When I made this change IMMEDIATELY I no longer heard any strange little gaps, no pops, no interruptions of any kind. When set up as recommended, the PCI card gets PRIORITY whereas this cannot be done with the USB. I am not attempting to explain this properly since I am incapable. But, fundamentally this is the difference.
It does not seem to be a matter of speed it is more about priorities within the machine.
I am all for trying things out and seeing what happens but at the same time when one is simply wanting a great device for listening to music why re-invent the wheel? If one has unlimited funds to try various MB's and memory your findings will be greatly appreciated but for those who want a first class transport for a reasonable amount of money there is a clear path.
Re: The problem is USB
In my setup, it's the other way, and in my experience, properly implemented USB sounds better.
I will repeat what I wrote earlier:
I had a PCI card (M-Audio Audiophile 24-66, which according to some people is in a same class as Juli@), breakaway cables bypassed, Belkin Synapse reference cable to extensively modified Bidat.
USB setup consists of USB DAC connected virtually directly to mobo.
In my setup, I feel clear preference for using USB, can't explain why, but it simply sounds better, to me.
BTW, I was recently experimenting with SATA cables and it seems that going custom route brings some benefits as well:
rickmcinnis said:
In my setup, it's the other way, and in my experience, properly implemented USB sounds better.
I will repeat what I wrote earlier:
I had a PCI card (M-Audio Audiophile 24-66, which according to some people is in a same class as Juli@), breakaway cables bypassed, Belkin Synapse reference cable to extensively modified Bidat.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
USB setup consists of USB DAC connected virtually directly to mobo.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
In my setup, I feel clear preference for using USB, can't explain why, but it simply sounds better, to me.
BTW, I was recently experimenting with SATA cables and it seems that going custom route brings some benefits as well:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Peter have you tried an external drive? I read that it could be bad with a USB soundcard but... I got no other choice!
What value of V-caps are you using with the USB? Perhaps I will add USB to my DAC later if I can figure out a way to use my laptop for a successful server. It is that or stick with the Adcom or try to find a Shigclone donor (probably hell to do that these days in the US).
What value of V-caps are you using with the USB? Perhaps I will add USB to my DAC later if I can figure out a way to use my laptop for a successful server. It is that or stick with the Adcom or try to find a Shigclone donor (probably hell to do that these days in the US).
Technically, the drive I'm using is "external", it's just I'm not using it through USB but SATA. There's no need for me to bother with USB for HDD, but if I have a chance, I will compare it. I did try to play music from USB memory stick, but it didn't sound as good as from HDD.
I'm using 0.1uF V-Caps, but only because TVC stage has high input impedance, otherwise I would need to use either bigger caps or buffer as described here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1378671#post1378671
I'm using 0.1uF V-Caps, but only because TVC stage has high input impedance, otherwise I would need to use either bigger caps or buffer as described here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1378671#post1378671
Hey Peter do you have any idea why I would get a LOT of FM radio when I unhooked the RCA's from my CD player that feeds into my amplifier?
It happens with every type of RCA cable I have tried. Well only two but still, some situation is making them antennas?
My RCA jacks should be isolated. There are plastic washers on each side.
It happens with every type of RCA cable I have tried. Well only two but still, some situation is making them antennas?
My RCA jacks should be isolated. There are plastic washers on each side.
Re: Re: The problem is USB
Why does this not surprise me that you've done this?
Cute SATA cable ends... where'd you find them?
I'm expecting cables like this won't have much of a impact on a Memory Player since the HDDs aren't active after the recording is loaded into memory... but some M-board tweaks will likely be very useful.
And of course, I'm probably wrong about this... likely everything will end up mattering!
I'm pulling together the parts for a AOB/cMP right now. I'll start with the specified ESI Juli@ feeding either your SPDIF DAC (for NOS input ) or a "Maxi-Lampucera" modified (& fixed for OS input).
But I likely will have to try one of your USB DACs too, along with your 'direct-connection' & other tweaks. Still $250 for the deluxe kit? How much for the RCAs?
Greg in Minneapolis
Why does this not surprise me that you've done this?
Cute SATA cable ends... where'd you find them?
I'm expecting cables like this won't have much of a impact on a Memory Player since the HDDs aren't active after the recording is loaded into memory... but some M-board tweaks will likely be very useful.
And of course, I'm probably wrong about this... likely everything will end up mattering!
I'm pulling together the parts for a AOB/cMP right now. I'll start with the specified ESI Juli@ feeding either your SPDIF DAC (for NOS input ) or a "Maxi-Lampucera" modified (& fixed for OS input).
But I likely will have to try one of your USB DACs too, along with your 'direct-connection' & other tweaks. Still $250 for the deluxe kit? How much for the RCAs?
Greg in Minneapolis
The cable ends come from Thermaltake cable, they were not molded but click on type and easy to replace. With all those cables I like to use DH Labs 26ga solid core silver wire, it seems to work well here Also, I only have one center ground wire (5 wires instead of 7 in SATA cable)
The Premium USB DAC kit is still $250, RCAs are another $20 and transformer/power entry module combo $30.
The NOS DAC gets pretty good response from people and the circuit has been unchanged since 2005: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=56975.0
Please note that my personal DAC version could be considered Ultra Premium, with some components being upgraded to match the rest of the system. I also have the impression, that for some reason USB DAC sounds a bit better than SPDIF version, don't know why
Also, I only have one center ground wire (5 wires instead of 7 in SATA cable)The Premium USB DAC kit is still $250, RCAs are another $20 and transformer/power entry module combo $30.
The NOS DAC gets pretty good response from people and the circuit has been unchanged since 2005: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=56975.0
Please note that my personal DAC version could be considered Ultra Premium, with some components being upgraded to match the rest of the system. I also have the impression, that for some reason USB DAC sounds a bit better than SPDIF version, don't know why
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.